****Rework the Stamina Mechanic****



  • Please fix the stamina mechanic.

    1. Makes fighting multiple enemies nearly impossible in it’s current state.

    2. Limits play style.

    3. A direct skill cap. (See 2 and 3).



  • So what would you recommend as a fix to the stamina system. Sure, it gets a little cramped when the action gets intense but that’s when breaks and effective spacing come into play.



  • I think this could be a great start at least.

    1. Feint cost from 15->10. This because a missed swing with a 2h costs 15 stamina, with a 1h it costs 10. There’s really no reason to feint instead of missing an attack. I think this’d punish failed strikes more and if you’re able to notice it you can bring the stamina cost down slightly, at least for two handers.
    2. Min/Max stamina drain on parries from 8/25->5/20. Because successful parries shouldn’t be punished.
    3. Increase parry negation values by 2 for daggers, 4 for the other 1Handers and 2Handers by 5. There should obviously be more tweaks here than this, but it’d be too long of a post, I might post some values I’ve been tinkering with later.
    4. Make panting start at 20 stamina instead of 30.
    5. Re-implement increased regeneration while crouching, perhaps 10%-20% faster. (?)
    6. Kick/shieldbash cost for MaA 20->10, Kick/shieldbash cost for the other classes 25->15. Kicks are too unreliable and are required against shields.
    7. Stamina lost by being kicked from (whatever it is) -> 5.
    8. Shield min stamina drain from 7->3
    9. Shields raise stamina from 0/0/0/0->3/3/4/4 (Buckler->Tower). To prevent people from raising/lowering them over and over.
    10. Shields start draining stamina after they’re raised. Punishes people for holding the shield up too early.
    11. Increase shield negation from 4/4.5/5/6->6/7/9/11.
    12. Shield recovery from 0.2/0.25/0.3/0.35->0.25/0.3/0.35/0.4.


  • @Xylvion:

    I think this could be a great start at least.

    1. Feint cost from 15->10. This because a missed swing with a 2h costs 15 stamina, with a 1h it costs 10. There’s really no reason to feint instead of missing an attack. I think this’d punish failed strikes more and if you’re able to notice it you can bring the stamina cost down slightly, at least for two handers.
    2. Min/Max stamina drain on parries from 8/25->5/20. Because successful parries shouldn’t be punished.
    3. Increase parry negation values by 2 for daggers, 4 for the other 1Handers and 2Handers by 5. There should obviously be more tweaks here than this, but it’d be too long of a post, I might post some values I’ve been tinkering with later.
    4. Make panting start at 20 stamina instead of 30.
    5. Re-implement increased regeneration while crouching, perhaps 10%-20% faster. (?)
    6. Kick/shieldbash cost for MaA 20->10, Kick/shieldbash cost for the other classes 25->15. Kicks are too unreliable and are required against shields.
    7. Stamina lost by being kicked from (whatever it is) -> 5.
    8. Shield min stamina drain from 7->3
    9. Shields raise stamina from 0/0/0/0->3/3/4/4 (Buckler->Tower). To prevent people from raising/lowering them over and over.
    10. Shields start draining stamina after they’re raised. Punishes people for holding the shield up too early.
    11. Increase shield negation from 4/4.5/5/6->6/7/9/11.
    12. Shield recovery from 0.2/0.25/0.3/0.35->0.25/0.3/0.35/0.4.

    1.If you miss you get punished by death while Feint is the easy way out of everything.
    This is allready favored so hard in the direction of feint, so you get a clear no from me
    3. 20 stamina for a block is still bullshit, parry riposte 5 times and you win….
    There should just be a fixed value for parry, lets say 12 stamina so you dont win by default then you pick the maul
    89101112.This doesnt fix how the maul singlehandetly deletes shields from the game while shield are super overpowered against low dmg weapon because they are immun to everything but stamina dmg



  • remove stam drain from pip’s and its fine



  • @Xylvion:

    I think this could be a great start at least.

    1. Feint cost from 15->10. This because a missed swing with a 2h costs 15 stamina, with a 1h it costs 10. There’s really no reason to feint instead of missing an attack. I think this’d punish failed strikes more and if you’re able to notice it you can bring the stamina cost down slightly, at least for two handers.
    2. Min/Max stamina drain on parries from 8/25->5/20. Because successful parries shouldn’t be punished.
    3. Increase parry negation values by 2 for daggers, 4 for the other 1Handers and 2Handers by 5. There should obviously be more tweaks here than this, but it’d be too long of a post, I might post some values I’ve been tinkering with later.
    4. Make panting start at 20 stamina instead of 30.
    5. Re-implement increased regeneration while crouching, perhaps 10%-20% faster. (?)
    6. Kick/shieldbash cost for MaA 20->10, Kick/shieldbash cost for the other classes 25->15. Kicks are too unreliable and are required against shields.
    7. Stamina lost by being kicked from (whatever it is) -> 5.
    8. Shield min stamina drain from 7->3
    9. Shields raise stamina from 0/0/0/0->3/3/4/4 (Buckler->Tower). To prevent people from raising/lowering them over and over.
    10. Shields start draining stamina after they’re raised. Punishes people for holding the shield up too early.
    11. Increase shield negation from 4/4.5/5/6->6/7/9/11.
    12. Shield recovery from 0.2/0.25/0.3/0.35->0.25/0.3/0.35/0.4.

    Why nerf shields? They’re already next to useless.



  • I’m not sure about all those nerfs to the shield, but I would like some changes in the raising/lowering like point 9’s. Doing that repeatedly should take some of your stamina.
    Raising and lowering a shield can be used defensively, offensively (and that feint-like movement that tricks less experienced players), and you can even exploit it (dat flinch removal).

    Nerfing shield recovery times, on the other hand, would be an overnerf.



  • You guys apparantly don’t know what I’m talking about.
    The buckler would drain as much stamina as the current Tower shield for getting hit. Instead of 8 minimum stamina drain it’d be down to 3 for shields, as compared to the 5 that I mentioned for regular parries.
    The changes would be that you lose a tad bit stamina from raising the shield so that you get punished for doing so at the wrong time.
    The only way to beat a good shielduser is if he stams out so therefor the drain should start at once and not after 5 seconds. it’s still low amounts like 2.5 to 4 stamina/second. How often are you even going to hold the shield up for two seconds? Or even one?
    The recoveries are ridicolous, the parry recovery is 0.5 seconds the longest shieldrecovery atm is the towershields which is 0.35 seconds. The heater shield can be raised twice in the same amount of time you can parry once atm. The overall stamina drain on shields would be lower, but it would punish you for not being able to read drags or feints, as you’d either raise the shield for a feint and then perhaps have to lower it for a kick. The kick would drain 5 stamina less anyways so it’d be like a kick is right now if you use the towershield.
    So really, I don’t see how that would nerf shields, it might even be an overbuff tbh.

    Other than that the feint stamina usage reduction would mean that CFtP is a lot cheaper to perform.



  • seperate discussion for shields would be good



  • @CRUSHED:

    remove stam drain from pip’s and its fine

    and remove CFTP stam drain

    youre already losing 15 from feinting, if you CFTP a maul thats like half your stamina gone



  • @CRUSHED:

    remove stam drain from pip’s and its fine

    Agreed.

    @zombojoe:

    and remove CFTP stam drain

    youre already losing 15 from feinting, if you CFTP a maul thats like half your stamina gone

    Perhaps. The counter-argument would be that misses should be punished, and you say you already lose enough from feinting. Hard to say in the scope of things which would be more balanced, considering how these values compare to other existing ones, as well as the multitude of ways cftps and ftps can be used (not solely for recovering after a miss). If this were to go into effect, Crushed’s proposed change would need to be implemented as well, since both of these changes affect the viability of defensive/aggressive play, respectfully. Implemented at the same time, however, and they work against each other to keep everything pertaining to playstyle relatively the same while increasing the freedom that a player has.
    (However I think Crushed’s change could work fine as is, since it can be argued that the game currently has a tendency to lean slightly towards offensive play)



  • FTP is usually a defensive play, when you know you’ll trade so you feint to parry out of an attack instead

    CFTP is usually a 1vX kinda deal or using missed swings to gain initiative

    now gaining initiative with CFTP is pretty lame, but takes a decent amount skill so its okay but in the current balance if you use CFTP to defend yourself against multiple players you’ll just stam out before you can kill any of them, scumbag feints against 1 hp players is like the only situations where you can win 1vX reliably vs good players

    buffing CFTP stamina will mean less dying to running out of stamina in 1vX which allow bigger plays to be made and more trades to avoid



  • @zombojoe:

    FTP is usually a defensive play, when you know you’ll trade so you feint to parry out of an attack instead

    CFTP is usually a 1vX kinda deal or using missed swings to gain initiative

    now gaining initiative with CFTP is pretty lame, but takes a decent amount skill so its okay but in the current balance if you use CFTP to defend yourself against multiple players you’ll just stam out before you can kill any of them, scumbag feints against 1 hp players is like the only situations where you can win 1vX reliably vs good players

    buffing CFTP stamina will mean less dying to running out of stamina in 1vX which allow bigger plays to be made and more trades to avoid

    Fair enough; I overlooked some of the situations in which those mechanics can be used. May not be the worst idea; but, like everything else, it needs to be tested first. That’s what the beta is for: to experiment with possible changes put into practice with feedback from the community. It’s perhaps the reason most of the suggestions in this sub-forum get nowhere; until TB picks up with the community involvement, no headway will be made. Hopefully if it does start to happen, TB will recognize that a democracy in a situation like this isnt necessarily the best idea (we saw plenty of that a while back). Serious balance considerations need to be approved by the people who know what they’re doing.



  • democracies dont work

    voting with your wallet is the only way for people to get what they want

    i would give TBS more money if they changed chivalry’s gameplay to increase the viability of 1vX, and reduced the punishment of running out of stamina or somewhat negating how easy it is to stam out in the first place

    and im sure many others would as well, the only thing that is left to do is for TBS to implement it to see how it does

    we are kind of seeing this already in the competition, slasher will be on the horizon in the next year or so and it already has huge support from the competitive community because it is catering to exactly the kind of gameplay we are asking for, more viable 1vX, large stamina pools, bigger emphasis on footwork, real counter plays to feints, the utter removal of hit trades, smooth animation transitions, and superbly better netcode

    if TBS wants to retain their competitive player base they will have to reach a compromise at some point, for now they are safe, but in the near future things may not be so certain

    especially with that new crpg-inspired melee game, rivalry, slasher and to some extent life is feudal, not to mention M&B2

    oh yeah as a sidenote one of the worst feelings in the world is trying to CFTP to avoid a trade when you dont have enough stamina causing you to either stam out and get a free hit on you or not being able to feint at all causing you to get hit by a giant maul right in the face while youre in release



  • no stam drain on pip would be kewl but id still like to reduce or rework parry drain altogether, maybe letting it kick in when youre at around 40% stam or so so maybe stamming people out would be viable in duels and if their management isnt great in 1vX, but if you go into a 1vX versus a decent amount of opposition youre not fucked immediately. this could be really poor in game, i dunno, but id like to try it out. would almost certainly be better than what we have now though lol