Dodge out of Active Parry



  • @Mystikkal:

    It doesn’t matter if you don’t think it should be that way. It is that way. So by changing it, you are removing a useful ability from the class, which is a nerf. Everyone can theory craft about numbers and why it doesn’t make sense. You can claim it’s a fix, but even if it’s a fix, it’s still a nerf to the current state of the class. The class has been nerfed so many times it is crazy. There are only about 4 MAAs who can actually perform well in the comp scene… are we trying to make that 0? You can take it away, but you’ll have to buff the class in another way.

    The only reason that MAA has been nerfed so many times is because those nerfs were absolutely needed to adjust the balance of the four classes. The number of nerfs in the past does not have anything to do with the effectiveness of this new nerf.

    Also, the reason that there aren’t very many comp MAAs anymore is because of the abundance of community shaming upon MAAs. Most people who don’t play MAA in comp always discourage those who do, despite having very much experience at all with it themselves. You and I both have dealt with ignorant people trying to devalue our skill as a whole due to the class we play. If we could get people to stop being so negative about playing MAA then we would see a lot more people willing to learn it.

    For example, look at good sir Rickvs here, blatantly stating that he doesn’t play MAA but is still very willing to declare that the skill cap of the MAA class is much less than that of the other classes.

    @Rickvs:

    See, I feel like someone who spends all his time as Knight or Vanguard will rather sooner than later pick up on advanced mechanics like ftp, cftp, probably even matrixing or just some general advanced footwork.
    MAA players on the other hand, not so much. They reach rank 5, know there’s 3 different attacks in the game and found the dodge button and boom, skillcap reached. Just remember to use stab and your dodge key and you’re all set.

    I barely play MAA and if I do it’s only in pubs. Admittedly, I might not always do the most opportune dodges, but I got everything else set; compared to the average MAA main of the same rank I’m still much better at feint to parries and just general tactics that hit the opponent/avoid damage without using dodge. Then I use dodge from time to time for added unpredictability.

    @Mystikkal:

    Have you seen the scoreboards of any scrims these days. The MAAs are usually dead last.

    I beg to differ. I find that I am always on the upper range of the scoreboard, if not in first place. Making a generalization like this is just incorrect.

    @Mystikkal:

    So let me get this straight… you want someone who can one-shot me… let’s say a zwei… to be able to triple feint me to the point where they are directly in my face and you want me to be able to read a triple feint everytime? There are VERY few people who can read an accelerated lookdown zwei feint from facehug range, never the less after two feints. And even if I dodge outta parry, I’ll still likely get hit.

    First of all, you should never be still in facehug range after a triple feint. Your footspeed would allow you to back away fast enough so that by the time he’s on his second feint you’re far enough away. And if you had dodged out of parry, then the Zwei would have attacked after the feint upon seeing your parry but your dodge should be enough to get away. Also, you can side dodge you know, making him miss.

    The reason that dodge out of parry is broken is because it looks like you can hit the MAA so you swing, but the MAA dodges out forcing you to take a miss. If the MAA had just dodged, you wouldn’t have so easily attacked right after the first feint, you may have feinted again.

    @Mystikkal:

    You know you can get an MAA in a state where they cant block or dodge right? Ask Spook and you’ll learn to master the knight class.

    Elaborate on what this state is??



  • Stam out stun state, no class can do anything in that state, neither can MAA, although there was a time when they could dodge out of that as well.



  • why u guys want to nerf everything



  • @JimmyTryhard:

    Elaborate on what this state is??

    Feint them once, they dodge out of parry, chase them again with a feint and they’re in dodge lockout but still parry = free hit.



  • Jimmy, I mean this with full respect to your clan, but you are a better player than most in your clan - that is why you do better relative to your clan. But you also play MAA more individually based than others (you use norse, jump people, etc.). This leads to you personally doing better, but your teammates doing worse. I also recall you having a very bad KD against us recently. Not calling you out, because you are a GREAT player… but against some of our top melee and archer, it was tough sledding.

    Our friend Rickys, for example, talked about complete flanks and coming in from behind. The thing that people need to realize is that if you are out of the battle too long, you are putting your core melee at a HUGE disadvantage. You may be able to flank and get a nice hit from behind, but if your team was fighting a player down for 5+ seconds, it probably wasnt worth it. I’m not saying flanking isn’t good, it is… but this idea that you should not be caught out in a melee fight is obsurd. You try playing with Omega or Guts when they say , WTF?!? where are you guys, I’m getting 2v1’ed. “Well guts, I was hiding behind a rock waiting for free hits”. I take pride in the fact that I’m good support… that’s part of what an MAA should do. They are your fast chess piece, they can quickly provide support when needed. They can also quickly get on an enemy in 2v1’s.

    As it relates to not being able to dodge out of parry… I’m not talking about out of stam state… I’d have to do some testing to get the exact time. It may just be when you are on both parry and dodge cool down… spook has mastered this timing. You can make it so the MAA is dead in the water… cant parry or dodge. He is good at forcing this through feints.

    Jimmy… after you read two zwei feints, the vanguard WILL be in facehug range. You don’t back pedel faster than he sprints. And if you are reading them well, you will just back up (not dodge) because other wise he gains a stam advnatage even though you read his feint. At face range, it is also VERY difficult to read whether he is accel overhead or LMB’ing… if he swings, he hits you in your side dodge. Also, good vanguards will often be able to drag their overhead and hit you if you side dodge there.

    In any event, I’ve pretty much said my piece. I’ll stop before getting flamed like usual.

    In summary, I just warn that removing it will cause serious balance issues. That is, at least, what the vanguards/knights in Tempest (who understand the weapon / class matchups very well) have said in mumble.

    Removing it makes an assumption that all feints should be readable from facehug range. I can count on one hand the number of players I have seen be able to do this at a fairly consistent rate… esp after multiple feints. Rawboner and Omega are probably two of the best at this, and they both agree that dodge out of parry should not be removed. Rawboner… my god… you can’t feint the guy… its amazing how well he can read. I learned to literally not to feint the guy.



  • You mean a class’s ability can save it from a feint? Somebody should make a poll about knights high resistance being nerfed since that obviously makes feints pointless against them.

    Heres how to REALLY never have to interact with a feint:

    select Knight class w/messer, maul, ls, or sow
    Get feinted
    lookdown overhead trade or hit

    If you all want to nerf dodge and maa into oblivion thats fine, but you cant sit here and theory craft all day making polls and whining about a class thats already been nerfed into the dirt when knight players have neutered feints just as much if not more than some silly dodge.



  • @Mystikkal:

    Jimmy, I mean this with full respect to your clan, but you are a better player than most in your clan - that is why you do better relative to your clan. But you also play MAA more individually based than others (you use norse, jump people, etc.). This leads to you personally doing better, but your teammates doing worse. I also recall you having a very bad KD against us recently. Not calling you out, because you are a GREAT player… but against some of our top melee and archer, it was tough sledding.

    http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/26224536552554791/795797C969ACE04DAABF331D8F1E3C5D22228A9D/

    mm yes a tough sledding that was

    lol all drama aside (sorry I had to protect myself) I definitely see where you’re coming from… but I still disagree. I actually like that only a few people can read feints so well, it increases the skill cap. I want MAAs to have to read feints too, and not just parry-dodge away. And the double feint thing still puts a lot of stamina advantage to the MAA as said before.



  • maa is fine



  • LOL, stick a fork in MAA class already, they’re done.



  • @CRUSHED:

    maa is fine pls stop trying to babify everything

    unless you start consistently dropping 30/40/50 kill bombs in scrims with maa its best to keep your mouth shut and keep practicing, 13/11 with an apparent op class? you serious?

    never said MAA was op. just would like it to be a little harder to play.



  • doesnt matter



  • “unless you start consistently dropping 30/40/50 kill bombs in scrims with maa its best to keep your mouth shut and keep practicing, 13/11 with an apparent op class? you serious?”

    “if it was so easy you would have 13-0 wouldnt you”

    Exactly this. If it is so stupidly easy, like I keep hearing people say, then why aren’t there maa topping every score board?

    A good MAA makes you upset. It’s as simple as that. They rarely top the scoreboard but you feel somehow slighted by a dodge or the footspeed or really anything they do. But it’s exactly the same thing in reverse for us! Playing against a knight as maa makes you feel “Oh gee wow, how can I even touch this guy he’s got 3x the health as me or so it appears and all of his weapons do more damage than mine! Not fair! Why can he sit there and let me hit him and I still lose!” and it’s exactly the same thing as “wow how can this guy throw unblockable mauls at me from across the map that I can’t block! How is this fair? Do I really have to use a shield?” so how is “oh wow I wasted stam triple feinting and then he dodged out away from my feints after falling for one of them” not the same line of thinking?

    The solution is to practice, and learn to deal with a class that gets 1 shotted (or near one shot, maul plus kick for instance) by half of the games arsenal. In any 2v1 situation as maa the two attackers just won’t leave you room to backpedal and the dodges won’t help except stamming you out faster.

    As a knight, you can simply feint and trade away and get that one headshot that kills you immediately. Until that’s fixed I see no problem with this dodge out of active parry nonsense. There is NO drawback to triple or quad feinting and then trading! Until that’s fixed don’t bother talking about “fixing” this.



  • maa is fine dont nerf



  • @zombojoe:

    maa is fine dont nerf

    And yet you voted to remove - did lemonater take over your account…



  • @gregcau:

    And yet you voted to remove - did lemonater take over your account…

    But I voted keep.



  • @zombojoe:

    maa is fine dont nerf

    TY based zombo.



  • fuck archers tho.



  • @parkrangerstan:

    fuck archers tho.

    Word, nigga.


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