Nerf archers' ranged combat damage against melee classes



  • One could still dream.
    As a vanguard, if I’ve like 75% deaths by ranged combat in a standard pub round in a melee game, something goes horribly wrong.



  • Just gonna leave this here:

    • Drain stamina when aiming with the bow/cross/jav.
    • Slower projectile speed.
    • Make projectiles parryable.
    • Nerf damage by 50% on all body parts except head. (Good archers need to be rewarded, right?)

    This will make archer more of a support class than a carry one.

    Your welcome, end of discussion.



  • How about making headshots 1 hit kills? :D

    But making the projectiles even slower? Meh. Don’t wanna see my lead balls flying in slow mo.

    But personally I’d like to see a damage reduction for knights. Vanguards trade additional armour for their massive damage output. The knight should be a tank. Which he isn’t, archers just rip you apart.



  • Multipliers:
    Ranged leg multiplier 0.65->0.35
    Ranged arm multiplier 1->0.65
    Crossbow leg multiplier 0.65->0.25
    Crossbow arm multiplier 1-0.6
    Why?
    Because hitting the legs deals too much damage.
    Hitting the arms deals the same damage as the torso, the arms usually protect the torso so it’s a higher chance of archers hitting that area instead of the upper body itself.
    Crossbows got a higher headshot multiplier than other ranged, to balance this they could have a lower multiplier towards the limbs.
    Why not lower torso damage?
    As I mentioned earlier, the arms are easier to hit, lower that multiplier and bam it’s harder for archers to kill people.

    Gravity:
    Swap longbow and warbows drop rate.
    Increase crossbow drop rates by 0.05.
    Why?
    To give longbow an advantarge over warbow.
    To make crossbows drop slightly faster so they’re not just point and click. Heavy crossbow would still have the lowest drop rate so it would still be the easiest.

    Damage:
    Warbow broadhead 90->100
    Why?
    So it can 1hit archers again.
    Why not more changes?
    Because damage balance can be changed later.

    Readytime:
    Give all throwables a max time they can be kept in ready to throw state. Example 1 second.
    Same for crossbows but with the same timer as bows.
    Why?
    Because currently you can hold up a javelin, crossbow, throwable forever until you decide to release it. A max timer would be necessary.

    Stamina drain:
    in all ready states, bowdraw, crossbow aiming (holding breath, hue) and so on.
    Why?
    Because keeping the weapon ready for a longer amount of time without releasing should be punished.

    Velocity:
    lower by 500 on bows/crossbows, 200 for throwables and sling.
    Why?
    To give someone a chance to notice them. (It won’t help though as projectiles travels in different ways for people.)

    Ammo:
    Lower all ammo by 50%ish
    Javelin ammo -2.
    Crossbow extra bolts 10->5
    Pebble ammo infinite->40
    Ammobox cooldown 20->15
    Why?
    So people can’t camp for ages. Turning amount of projectiles to an important factor as an archer.
    With the changes ammoboxes are required to be used more often, lowering the timer by 5 seconds seems like a decent idea.

    There’s a lot of ways to nerf archers without nerfing their damage, I believe it would be a good idea to try doing so before making ranged completely useless. For example crossbow reload times could be slowed down by 0.5 seconds so they’d be the same as before the buff.



  • ^ This is better and more in-depth of what I had in mind. Please implement for beta testing TB.



  • @INerevar:

    One could still dream.
    As a vanguard, if I’ve like 75% deaths by ranged combat in a standard pub round in a melee game, something goes horribly wrong.

    75%+ of your deaths are to archers no matter what class you play, even archer.



  • I think Xylvion is totally right.



  • @SOC:

    75%+ of your deaths are to archers no matter what class you play, even archer.

    Not the case for me. You must be doing something wrong.

    People complaining about getting shot while running towards archers in straight lines when there are other options available are as bad as people complaining about feints. Sure you can think archers are op all you want but there’s no need to cripple yourself by not even trying to avoid getting shot.
    You don’t even need to do anything crazy, even slight movements can make someone miss.
    Just, if you see an archer, don’t ignore it. Take it into account in everything you do like you would any other mechanic. I play archer and I am perfectly able to avoid getting shot even while reloading a crossbow in the open. Granted it’s impossible when there are too many of them spread around the map.

    Not saying anything for or against nerfs, just that most people are dumb.



  • @Xylvion:

    Multipliers:
    Ranged leg multiplier 0.65->0.35
    Ranged arm multiplier 1->0.65
    Crossbow leg multiplier 0.65->0.25
    Crossbow arm multiplier 1-0.6
    Why?
    Because hitting the legs deals too much damage.
    Hitting the arms deals the same damage as the torso, the arms usually protect the torso so it’s a higher chance of archers hitting that area instead of the upper body itself.
    Crossbows got a higher headshot multiplier than other ranged, to balance this they could have a lower multiplier towards the limbs.
    Why not lower torso damage?
    As I mentioned earlier, the arms are easier to hit, lower that multiplier and bam it’s harder for archers to kill people.

    Gravity:
    Swap longbow and warbows drop rate.
    Increase crossbow drop rates by 0.05.
    Why?
    To give longbow an advantarge over warbow.
    To make crossbows drop slightly faster so they’re not just point and click. Heavy crossbow would still have the lowest drop rate so it would still be the easiest.

    Damage:
    Warbow broadhead 90->100
    Why?
    So it can 1hit archers again.
    Why not more changes?
    Because damage balance can be changed later.

    Readytime:
    Give all throwables a max time they can be kept in ready to throw state. Example 1 second.
    Same for crossbows but with the same timer as bows.
    Why?
    Because currently you can hold up a javelin, crossbow, throwable forever until you decide to release it. A max timer would be necessary.

    Stamina drain:
    in all ready states, bowdraw, crossbow aiming (holding breath, hue) and so on.
    Why?
    Because keeping the weapon ready for a longer amount of time without releasing should be punished.

    Velocity:
    lower by 500 on bows/crossbows, 200 for throwables and sling.
    Why?
    To give someone a chance to notice them. (It won’t help though as projectiles travels in different ways for people.)

    Ammo:
    Lower all ammo by 50%ish
    Javelin ammo -2.
    Crossbow extra bolts 10->5
    Pebble ammo infinite->40
    Ammobox cooldown 20->15
    Why?
    So people can’t camp for ages. Turning amount of projectiles to an important factor as an archer.
    With the changes ammoboxes are required to be used more often, lowering the timer by 5 seconds seems like a decent idea.

    There’s a lot of ways to nerf archers without nerfing their damage, I believe it would be a good idea to try doing so before making ranged completely useless. For example crossbow reload times could be slowed down by 0.5 seconds so they’d be the same as before the buff.

    Brilliant changes.

    Projectile speed and ammo changes might be a bit extreme. Playing the ammo box game is kinda annoying especially with the increased ammo box cooldown times on some maps when some stupid VG comes along to refill his axes and misses both times again. You walk off kill some bitch come back and that God damn idiot is waiting at the ammo box.

    The reason the warbow does more damage is becuase of its faster projectile speed. Swapping it seems weird.

    Crossbows should have a much larger deceleration rate than bows I think. Crossbows had faster “muzzle” velocities than bows however much shorter range. Bowmen were the snipers not crossbowmen. So crossbowmen in the game will have to get closer and expose themselves more. If they try and snipe they will be sorta useless. No more cross map xbows on stoneshill. The lower damaging bows will be the longer ranged weapons. That in itself would reduce the camping by xbows removing the need for less ammo. Or at least w lower reduction.

    Stamina drain is good. I don’t think you should drain stamina just for aiming a crossbow though. Using the zoom feature definitely. I pretty much always use that long range and there’s no penalty currently. Maybe even have the stamina drain scale with the zoom features FOV change lol. People with 30FOV zoom lose 50 stamina a second. Drawing bows, reloading crossbows and using the hold breath/zoom feature is good for stamina drain. Meaning if you sneak up on an archer they are at a disadvantage stamina wise.

    However I don’t want it going below 15 stamina for 2 reasons. I don’t want to hear a bunch of archers huffing and puffing. And it means an archer can get one good parry off to try and save themselves. I mean who wants to be stamina stunned by some rank 0 who got lost and ran into you? It’s only fair.

    Longbow and warbow is a tricky one. But it’s sorta like the Longsword and messer. Almost needs a different thread lol.



  • @J-P:

    Not the case for me. You must be doing something wrong.

    People complaining about getting shot while running towards archers in straight lines when there are other options available are as bad as people complaining about feints. Sure you can think archers are op all you want but there’s no need to cripple yourself by not even trying to avoid getting shot.
    You don’t even need to do anything crazy, even slight movements can make someone miss.
    Just, if you see an archer, don’t ignore it. Take it into account in everything you do like you would any other mechanic. I play archer and I am perfectly able to avoid getting shot even while reloading a crossbow in the open. Granted it’s impossible when there are too many of them spread around the map.

    Not saying anything for or against nerfs, just that most people are dumb.

    Dancing works, but just a few times. Its not hard to be unpredictable but it is hard to be unpredictable many times, and good archers find patterns fast as fuck. I mean you make him miss once, he gets patterns in your dance and you may even fool him twice, but your happiness will not last. And to keep a unpredictable dance while fighting someone else/trying to support is very hard man.

    Its funny thou, because the most weird shit breaks their aim, sometimes while dancing I just stop moving and watch as the arrow goes by. Against archers that use bow is easier to dance imo, because you can get their timing easily. Now with the fucking crossbow where he can hold that shit forever, good luck dancing on that shit.



  • @Vanguard:

    Dancing works, but just a few times. Its not hard to be unpredictable but it is hard to be unpredictable many times, and good archers find patterns fast as fuck. I mean you make him miss once, he gets patterns in your dance and you may even fool him twice, but your happiness will not last. And to keep a unpredictable dance while fighting someone else/trying to support is very hard man.

    Its funny thou, because the most weird shit breaks their aim, sometimes while dancing I just stop moving and watch as the arrow goes by. Against archers that use bow is easier to dance imo, because you can get their timing easily. Now with the fucking crossbow where he can hold that shit forever, good luck dancing on that shit.

    No need to dance though. Just do something simple but unpredictable. Move your head slightly and headshots become a lot harder. Archers are predictable since they’ll always go for the most likely shot, especially when they don’t know you’re actively dodging them. While swinging there’s not much you can do besides try to choose the spot and position so that you, the guy you’re fighting and the archer are aligned.
    Every weapon that requires leading can be dodged, maybe you don’t always have time to do it while the arrow is flying towards you but it’s still possible.



  • Archers won’t aim at the head unless you are withen 10 metres. After that it’s the torso.

    Never jump while trying to dodge. You can’t turn in mid air while flying.



  • @lemonater47:

    Brilliant changes.
    The reason the warbow does more damage is becuase of its faster projectile speed. Swapping it seems weird.

    It would still have higher velocity, the drop is just how fast it starts traveling downwards, meaning you’d have to aim higher with it on longer distances compared to longbow.
    I myself would love to increase the drop a lot for crossbows, making bows betterfor long distances, but that’s just me.



  • @J-P:

    Not the case for me. You must be doing something wrong.

    People complaining about getting shot while running towards archers in straight lines when there are other options available are as bad as people complaining about feints. Sure you can think archers are op all you want but there’s no need to cripple yourself by not even trying to avoid getting shot.
    You don’t even need to do anything crazy, even slight movements can make someone miss.
    Just, if you see an archer, don’t ignore it. Take it into account in everything you do like you would any other mechanic. I play archer and I am perfectly able to avoid getting shot even while reloading a crossbow in the open. Granted it’s impossible when there are too many of them spread around the map.

    Not saying anything for or against nerfs, just that most people are dumb.

    I have nearly 3k hours. Are you even trying to suggest I do something wrong? I regularly go 55-5 in attacking team pubs against stacked teams of 40-50s consisting mostly of people posting in this forum, using longsword. It’s just 75% of those deaths if not more are to archers. Shields dancing serpentine unpredictable movement ect. will only get you so far. Good archers won’t miss, and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it. Archers also control competitive with no counter play except to other archers. Archers absolutely need nerfing, both in ranged and melee, and always have.



  • This post is deleted!


  • archerino melee is op because its worse than every other class

    am i doing it right



  • @J-P:

    You did say “75%+ of your deaths are to archers no matter what class you play, even archer.” and that’s not the case at least for me. Pubs don’t mean shit and ranks or play time means even less after a certain point.
    In a game where you have to lead shots everyone will miss. Unless you have the attitude that they never miss and you’re giving them easy shots.

    Not gonna teach you how to dodge arrows but it’s definitely not about dancing. It’s about knowing where and when the archer thinks you’re going to move and doing something completely different, unpredictable. All you can do in close range is wiggle your head to avoid getting oneshot but doing something is always better than just crying about how OP archers are.

    All I’m gonna say about nerfs is that I don’t see how archers’ melee is OP.

    Most people posting in this thread are referring to pubs, but it’s still the same in competitive as like I said, archers control the match completely. Do you even scrim?

    Archers will miss sometimes, but there are times that matter where they won’t. I specifically said in my post that being unpredictable won’t cause an archer to fail. If an archer misses, they’re bad. It isn’t that you’re good at dodging arrows as you can’t force them to fail or miss. All you can do is hope they miss and are bad while you give your self the best chance possible. I do everything that’s imaginably possible and have for years, there is absolutely nothing you can think of or try that I haven’t already done a million times before. If you’ve put any real time in this game and played against real archers in both pubs and competitive, you would know without any doubt that archers are completely OP and anti-fun in every aspect.

    As for archer melee, short sword and thrusting dagger are still too strong. They offer too much speed for their reach and archer foot speed. Archers should feel weak and disadvantaged in melee, but currently they don’t, at least no where near enough.



  • What JP’s talking about works fine against rank 40 or less archers, or shit tier archers. Unless people do a full stop all of a sudden it’s really easy to hit them. But it all comes down to your luck or the skill of the archer.

    Archer melee isn’t superior in any way.



  • This post is deleted!


  • It doesn’t matter if you can make it harder for archers to shoot; you are still making it harder for yourself to effectively fight enemies, you are doing something that is annoying to perform and looks completely ridiculous, and ultimately you have no real counter, it all comes to the skill of the archer and you can only hope for the best. All this in a melee-based game. It’s fucking ridiculous and the biggest turnoff people coming in experience in this steaming pile of a game.


Log in to reply