Nerf archers' ranged combat damage against melee classes



  • I agree. Projectiles plus determination divided by luck and skill equals… I really don’t know where I was going with this.



  • @gregcau:

    It reduces the chances of being shot from 100% to 20%.

    More like from 100 to 95%



  • This post is deleted!


  • Now, the biggest question - is Torn Banner dumb enough to believe these “75% archer deaths” claims and this forum of archer hate over their hard data? Or do they look at their data (which they have shown they collect) and realize what people whine about in here is not prevalent, and is really nothing more than an outspoken minority (majority doesn’t post here) who wants to tailor a game to their specific preferences?



  • @xbowitis:

    Now, the biggest question - is Torn Banner dumb enough to believe these “75% archer deaths” claims and this forum of archer hate over their hard data? Or do they look at their data (which they have shown they collect) and realize what people whine about in here is not prevalent, and is really nothing more than an outspoken minority (majority doesn’t post here) who wants to tailor a game to their specific preferences?

    reads last sentence
    looks at username
    A bit hypocritical now, are we, Xbowitis?



  • Bloemkoolz has like 100-300 kills with the bow, he topped the scoreboard a few times with the warbow.



  • @xbowitis:

    Now, the biggest question - is Torn Banner dumb enough to believe these “75% archer deaths” claims and this forum of archer hate over their hard data? Or do they look at their data (which they have shown they collect) and realize what people whine about in here is not prevalent, and is really nothing more than an outspoken minority (majority doesn’t post here) who wants to tailor a game to their specific preferences?

    Are you dumb enough to believe that your own experiences outweighs the collective experience of the combined competitive scene of this game, most of whom have total playtimes in the range of 1000 to 2000 hours?

    Besides, what kind of data are you talking about? If we’re talking of something so simple as K/D I bet I could “prove” that weapons like Spear, Halberd and Sword of War are underpowered, whereas weapons like Zweihander and Messer would come out as being grossly overpowered. I think you need to realise that your own inexperience with the game renders you completely unable to lend anything useful to a balance discussion like this.



  • mercs mod is fun



  • @Stael:

    Are you dumb enough to believe that your own experiences outweighs the collective experience of the combined competitive scene of this game, most of whom have total playtimes in the range of 1000 to 2000 hours?

    Besides, what kind of data are you talking about? If we’re talking of something so simple as K/D I bet I could “prove” that weapons like Spear, Halberd and Sword of War are underpowered, whereas weapons like Zweihander and Messer would come out as being grossly overpowered. I think you need to realise that your own inexperience with the game renders you completely unable to lend anything useful to a balance discussion like this.

    Spear will be up with zweihander KD ratios.



  • In my opinion they should just be removed (archers). They don’t add anything to the game, the game would be much more enjoyable for an overwhelming majority of the fanbase if archers were just removed.

    They are overpowered, they ruin fun, and they keep the game down from being the true melee combat game it’s supposed to be



  • Nah archers are cool. They just need to be more like a support class and less like Zeus hurling thunderbolts.



  • I have had this discussion since release when they screwed up the archers to begin with. You can look up "an Honest discussion about archers for the full thread. The biggest problem with the class ( not including Javs because they have thier own issues) is that they tried to give archers everything. The forgot the primary purpose is a RANGED class. I actually have no problems with the arrows, the 1 shot kills or the speed and damage. In fact I would add reloading and shooting arrows while running (except Xbow of coarse) and I would allow archers to kick with a bow in hand to allow them to escape melee. But the added broken chase mech and kick has currently fucked this up.

    There is a two pronged problem. One is that there is no stamina drain for reloading and holding a knocked arrow (it doesn’t have to be much, 5% to draw and 3% to hold - or divide full stamina by the number of arrows) and the other has always lied in the melee with it’s speed and ability to parry major weapon and take no damage. With the no stam drain in arching, archers are able to go into melee with full stamina and usually full health. Parrying any of the heavy weapons should also incur damage. A dagger should never parry a maul and not take damage. It is just dumb on many levels. Also not enough weapons 1 shot archers that should. (Sprint attack is a joke from day one)

    The idea is that archers should fear melee specially if they failed to sink in an arrow or two into their approaching enemy and be more dependent upon their ranged skill. They are the Chiv sniper class and should have deadly power at range and be very vulnerable up close. It is really the only way to balance the class. Simply add damage in addition to stamina drain against heavy weapons. It doesn’t have to be much but like 7%-10% would be sufficient.

    What this would accomplish it a more tactical approach to how the archer is played and used in game. It would change team tactics in wanting to sneak behind the archer and take them out instead of the current meta of flanking an archer to only have them spam you to death. It would also force team members to protect their archers and archers to be better skilled in actual arching and melee as a last resort.



  • @Retsnom:

    I have had this discussion since release when they screwed up the archers to begin with. You can look up "an Honest discussion about archers for the full thread. The biggest problem with the class ( not including Javs because they have thier own issues) is that they tried to give archers everything. The forgot the primary purpose is a RANGED class. I actually have no problems with the arrows, the 1 shot kills or the speed and damage. In fact I would add reloading and shooting arrows while running (except Xbow of coarse) and I would allow archers to kick with a bow in hand to allow them to escape melee. But the added broken chase mech and kick has currently fucked this up.

    There is a two pronged problem. One is that there is no stamina drain for reloading and holding a knocked arrow (it doesn’t have to be much, 5% to draw and 3% to hold - or divide full stamina by the number of arrows) and the other has always lied in the melee with it’s speed and ability to parry major weapon and take no damage. With the no stam drain in arching, archers are able to go into melee with full stamina and usually full health. Parrying any of the heavy weapons should also incur damage. A dagger should never parry a maul and not take damage. It is just dumb on many levels. Also not enough weapons 1 shot archers that should. (Sprint attack is a joke from day one)

    The idea is that archers should fear melee specially if they failed to sink in an arrow or two into their approaching enemy and be more dependent upon their ranged skill. They are the Chiv sniper class and should have deadly power at range and be very vulnerable up close. It is really the only way to balance the class. Simply add damage in addition to stamina drain against heavy weapons. It doesn’t have to be much but like 7%-10% would be sufficient.

    What this would accomplish it a more tactical approach to how the archer is played and used in game. It would change team tactics in wanting to sneak behind the archer and take them out instead of the current meta of flanking an archer to only have them spam you to death. It would also force team members to protect their archers and archers to be better skilled in actual arching and melee as a last resort.

    I agree with most of this. Archers are should be fucked if caught in melee. At the moment they’re not like archers, they’re like some sort of spec-ops ranger class. Being shot all the time would be a lots less frustrating if you knew you could punish them if you managed a successful flank. This would actually make the ranged less annoying too, because they’d be compelled to stay further back. I think virtually all sharp weapons should one shot them too, and a good chunk of blunt ones.

    On a side note, what happened to archers to make them so dominant? At release they were just a mild irritant, played by a few specialist players, and only really a threat by the best guys. Is it just that people have got better at using them, or was their a fundamental change somewhere I’m forgetting?



  • The arrows got more consistent, FOV and FPS doesn’t alter how arrows travel anymore. Arrows don’t ghost through as much as they did previously either, after the june 2013 patch it felt like the hitbox got larger somehow. You also can’t dodge arrows as you could before, they’re invisible until 10 meters away from you for some reason.



  • @Xylvion:

    The arrows got more consistent, FOV and FPS doesn’t alter how arrows travel anymore. Arrows don’t ghost through as much as they did previously either, after the june 2013 patch it felt like the hitbox got larger somehow. You also can’t dodge arrows as you could before, they’re invisible until 10 meters away from you for some reason.

    So basically a mix of fixes and new bugs XD



  • @Xylvion:

    The arrows got more consistent, FOV and FPS doesn’t alter how arrows travel anymore. Arrows don’t ghost through as much as they did previously either, after the june 2013 patch it felt like the hitbox got larger somehow. You also can’t dodge arrows as you could before, they’re invisible until 10 meters away from you for some reason.

    The main issue is that the arrow flies past you and then hits you. Which sort of implies they have properly fixed the arrow speed affected by FPS but at all. They have fixed it for the guy firing the arrow. Not for the guy the arrow is flying at. So he can see it miss completely and one second later get hit by an arrow that already flew past.



  • @Harry:

    I agree with most of this. Archers are should be fucked if caught in melee. At the moment they’re not like archers, they’re like some sort of spec-ops ranger class. Being shot all the time would be a lots less frustrating if you knew you could punish them if you managed a successful flank. This would actually make the ranged less annoying too, because they’d be compelled to stay further back. I think virtually all sharp weapons should one shot them too, and a good chunk of blunt ones.

    This. But I think it would be reasonable that all two-handed vanguard and knight weapons should one-shot archers with overhead and slash to the torso.

    GS, the second biggest sword in the game not being able to one-shot slash them to torso is beyond ridiculous. Half-decent melee archer can spam to death people armed with hardest hitting weapons, sometimes the only way to not get flinched by spamming facehugger is to run the other way, queue an attack and hope for hit-trade when turning, which still won’t work with GS slash on a full-health archer. Yes, overhead would work, but it’s way harder to land on a pest running circles around you.



  • @petergriffin:

    This. But I think it would be reasonable that all two-handed vanguard and knight weapons should one-shot archers with overhead and slash to the torso.

    GS, the second biggest sword in the game not being able to one-shot slash them to torso is beyond ridiculous. Half-decent melee archer can spam to death people armed with hardest hitting weapons, sometimes the only way to not get flinched by spamming facehugger is to run the other way, queue an attack and hope for hit-trade when turning, which still won’t work with GS slash on a full-health archer. Yes, overhead would work, but it’s way harder to land on a pest running circles around you.

    Don’t let them facehug you.



  • Kiting also doesn’t work against any good player of any class.



  • @lemonater47:

    Kiting also doesn’t work against any good player of any class.

    you can thank torn banner for that

    pre-june patch kiting was a viable tactic

    also you can caveman vanguards as an archer, as long as you dont get 1 shotted, you can trade 1 attack, hit them again while they are in recovery and then feint the 3rd attack for an ez kill assuming they were full hp

    its just disgusting how little skill it takes to caveman nowdays, why cant we go back to the good old days where if you got hit you had to parry the next attack?


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