TBS will no longer spend any Dev time on improving/balancing Chivalry



  • @AmishInsurgent:

    From my understanding they’ll still fix major bugs; anything that drastically effects gameplay. Anomaly’s will probably be fixed too if you can actually gather evidence/proof of it so that they can trace what the issue is instead of spending hours trying to recreate it.

    I always felt Balance and Game mechanic subforums were for the users sake and not the devs; a place for the players to talk about the game together, not a place to tell the devs what need changing.

    Why the heck would anyone come here to discuss game mechanics and or balance if they didn’t expect their opinion to possibly lead to a better game? Your opinion makes no sense to me. You might as well go tell a brick wall that hit trades suck ass. People only utilize this subforum because they hope that if they scream loud enough, some sort of productive change will come about. If your opinion was true, this subforum would simply be called “shoulder to whine on.”

    Anyways, It’s pointless to sit here and circlejerk about hit trades, OP weapons, underachieving weapons, etc at this point because we now know that TBS has backed away from any major balance involvement. At this point, they’re just pushing hats and minor bugfixes. People might as well just whine about issues in the general discussion.



  • Vanilla Chivalry is about 30 months old now. In my opinion, it seems natural that the Torn Banner devs want to ‘move on’ to the next big thing.

    Last 3-4 patches have had weak, mixed feedback and the remaining players don’t seem to form a relevant community. As much as I love the game I think it’s the right time for TB to push whatever they have in their minds and focus on that for a while.

    I can see them working for some time and releasing their unnanounced UE4 project, and then coming back to Chiv in the form of some mild support, and patching from time to time. I really think the next game will be enjoyable and cleaner than the current experience; it’s an indie studio and MW has been their first commercial game, after all.

    Right now I’m happy with the news of the incoming Linux port, it really is a nice thing to give us considering the size and plans of the team.

    @magilla:

    Anyways, It’s pointless to sit here and circlejerk

    Yes, it is.



  • @magilla:

    Why the heck would anyone come here to discuss game mechanics and or balance if they didn’t expect their opinion to possibly lead to a better game? Your opinion makes no sense to me. You might as well go tell a brick wall that hit trades suck ass. People only utilize this subforum because they hope that if they scream loud enough, some sort of productive change will come about. If your opinion was true, this subforum would simply be called “shoulder to whine on.”

    I’m not saying it won’t lead to a change. The problem is with balance (not bugs) a lot of it can be regarded as opinion. If a few people voice their concerns about a weapon being unfair it isn’t likely to hold any weight on it. The subforum is about discussing balance for your voice to be heard to others and if the majority of people agree with you change could happen.

    Problem is with only 4 classes for every opinion of a needed balance change there’s a good amount of people who play that class that will argue against it. Remember the needed archer nerf and how many archers flooded the forums about how wrong it was to nerf their damage? Same can be said with the handle hit tracer change; PoleArm no damage tracers were too long but since no one plays them there was no voice about it.

    It’s been a long time that TBS claimed they don’t mind editing values but overhauling mechanics isn’t a likely story. If the community brought forth an agreeable list of value changes who knows what would happen?



  • I still think they should fix the game before they leave it.



  • @Rekrab:

    I still think they should fix the game before they leave it.

    I agree 100%.

    Although that’s probably because animations are still borked for me and it seems for only me. Either that or the other players with this problem have learned to cope with it, something I definitely don’t intend to.



  • @AmishInsurgent:

    and if the majority of people agree with you change could happen.

    Unlikely at this point.

    I would prefer balance is not messed with - except for nerfing archers. But TBS hardly plays the game enough to actually understand the issue with archers e.g. one developer plays again and he is omg so much voting in the game let me make it so nobody can vote (which led to the trolls running rampant). So no I would rather not have them interpret balance at this point.

    There are a bunch of bugs which have been stated over and over again that would significantly improve the enjoyability of the game, but TBS never responds to any of the posts (by anyone) and I very much doubt they have the right priority list (or so it seems when a patch comes out and it is a bunch of random stuff).

    So I am with Rodkar - just let them work on their next project.



  • @Rickvs:

    I agree 100%.

    Although that’s probably because animations are still borked for me and it seems for only me. Either that or the other players with this problem have learned to cope with it, something I definitely don’t intend to.

    It’s not only you.
    It also seems like higher pings are even more unstable atm, people with 110 ping teleport all over the place atm, heck so does people with 90 ping. It was somewhat bad before, but you could parry them most of the time, now there’s no need to try.



  • @gregcau:

    Unlikely at this point.

    I would prefer balance is not messed with - except for nerfing archers. But TBS hardly plays the game enough to actually understand the issue with archers e.g. one developer plays again and he is omg so much voting in the game let me make it so nobody can vote (which led to the trolls running rampant). So no I would rather not have them interpret balance at this point.

    There are a bunch of bugs which have been stated over and over again that would significantly improve the enjoyability of the game, but TBS never responds to any of the posts (by anyone) and I very much doubt they have the right priority list (or so it seems when a patch comes out and it is a bunch of random stuff).

    So I am with Rodkar - just let them work on their next project.

    Its a shame because the comp scene is bigger than it ever was, apparently 18 teams are registered for the next tournament.
    I agree that we shouldn’t really mess with balance, but we should at least make it so we can integrate FHF officially, it truly makes the game much more enjoyable.



  • @Frodiziak:

    Its a shame because the comp scene is bigger than it ever was, apparently 18 teams are registered for the next tournament.
    I agree that we shouldn’t really mess with balance, but we should at least make it so we can integrate FHF officially, it truly makes the game much more enjoyable.

    the only people not liking first hit flinch are the ones that don’t see enough punishment for just swinging all the time. It’s not only the flinch itself, but the TIME of the flinch… it’s not nearly long enough for most weapons. Think of daggars and most 1 handed weapons, you can flinch, recover, and strike again with initiative with like 90% of one handers and 100% of daggars. With pretty much any 2 handed weapon, you don’t flinch long enough to keep initiative after doing a single strike - and hitting somoene and not comboing gives them initiative back. Not as much of an issue if you’re an all time duelist but look at how that affects fighting 1vN. Hell there are still plenty of weapons that if you do a certain combo, they can at least hit trade you mid combo and they don’t even have to be a fast weapon (take messer slashes for example).

    I get aimpunched almost once every time I spawn now or at least 1 out of 2 spawns.

    First hit flinch is great, but since they are not going to put any more dedicated development, FHF would be implemented poorly and would we really want FHF if it’s implemented like that? Just make the change and go? I don’t.

    With PiP now or maybe just the fact that a lot of flinches put you back in idle, ripostes need to be stoppable somehow. Ripostes not being abel to be stopped is like hitting a vanguard right before he charges yet it persists because they aren’t flinchable or stoppable either.

    And then also, if flinches don’t flinch in release… then they shouldn’t flinch in release. There is overall just complete inconsistency there and the whole “Fix” of flinch in release, well it still happens all the time in one form or another. I get flinched in release as well like 1 out of every 2 spawns or almost every spawn. Aimpunch is another side effect that is basically flinch in release in another manner ( a worse one ) where recovery also has to take place to regain idle state.

    These kind of things all contribute to the big picture of shit being fucked up right now… and i really can’t believe that sometimes i feel like I"m the only one who sees these issues as issues.

    One other big thing that still annoys the hell out of me is that I can NEVER seem to parry with my ass like everyone else does, but i get parried from behind so freaking often in this game it’s ridiculous. I can see a lean back parry working if i do an overhead and they legitimately parry the tracer on the front side, but when i stab nowhre near their weapon on their back and it gets parried… my blood turns into lava every time.

    I could probably go on but this is probably already a huge wall of text so i’ll cut it short here.



  • I’ve actually managed to pull off a buttparry!

    But it wasn’t a buttparry on my end, I managed to parry 2 attacks one after the other. Then I got hit with “How the fuck did you parry from your ass?” Some of these buttparries may look fine from one perspective but completely fucked to the guy attacking. The game can’t keep up with fast animations.

    I still die most of the time to 1vsmany though.



  • well you should die to 1vmany if the many have equivalent skill, but if they’re just bad and spamming attacks there’s not much even the most skilled players can do currently even if you far outweigh them in skill level.



  • @50ShadesofClay:

    well you should die to 1vmany if the many have equivalent skill, but if they’re just bad and spamming attacks there’s not much even the most skilled players can do currently even if you far outweigh them in skill level.

    One of the biggest reasons I miss Chivalry before “the patch.” This is also why ripostes need to remain unflinchable.



  • @SOC:

    One of the biggest reasons I miss Chivalry before “the patch.” This is also why ripostes need to remain unflinchable.

    ripostes are unflinchable, except when you get hit right before you input your riposte



  • Why not make ripostes similar to before when you parried incoming attacks with your weapon? But also make it flinchable. Being able to flinch them without some way to “defend” against getting flinched would make 1v2’s impossible.



  • @SOC:

    One of the biggest reasons I miss Chivalry before “the patch.” This is also why ripostes need to remain unflinchable.

    again, players winning in 1vsmany ties into the issue of player retention. i loved it too. but the fact is that the casual player won’t stick around long if he has no hope whatsoever even when other teammates are around.

    TBS has taken a step back in design, and i really think that the hit trade meta ties largely into that. now you can overwhelm single opponents with ease just by lmbing in groups. it’s significantly easier now to get kills with a more simplistic approach to play.

    i hate to say it but i believe this is intentional.



  • @50ShadesofClay:

    the only people not liking first hit flinch are the ones that don’t see enough punishment for just swinging all the time. It’s not only the flinch itself, but the TIME of the flinch… it’s not nearly long enough for most weapons. Think of daggars and most 1 handed weapons, you can flinch, recover, and strike again with initiative with like 90% of one handers and 100% of daggars. With pretty much any 2 handed weapon, you don’t flinch long enough to keep initiative after doing a single strike - and hitting somoene and not comboing gives them initiative back. Not as much of an issue if you’re an all time duelist but look at how that affects fighting 1vN. Hell there are still plenty of weapons that if you do a certain combo, they can at least hit trade you mid combo and they don’t even have to be a fast weapon (take messer slashes for example).

    I get aimpunched almost once every time I spawn now or at least 1 out of 2 spawns.

    First hit flinch is great, but since they are not going to put any more dedicated development, FHF would be implemented poorly and would we really want FHF if it’s implemented like that? Just make the change and go? I don’t.

    With PiP now or maybe just the fact that a lot of flinches put you back in idle, ripostes need to be stoppable somehow. Ripostes not being abel to be stopped is like hitting a vanguard right before he charges yet it persists because they aren’t flinchable or stoppable either.

    And then also, if flinches don’t flinch in release… then they shouldn’t flinch in release. There is overall just complete inconsistency there and the whole “Fix” of flinch in release, well it still happens all the time in one form or another. I get flinched in release as well like 1 out of every 2 spawns or almost every spawn. Aimpunch is another side effect that is basically flinch in release in another manner ( a worse one ) where recovery also has to take place to regain idle state.

    These kind of things all contribute to the big picture of shit being fucked up right now… and i really can’t believe that sometimes i feel like I"m the only one who sees these issues as issues.

    One other big thing that still annoys the hell out of me is that I can NEVER seem to parry with my ass like everyone else does, but i get parried from behind so freaking often in this game it’s ridiculous. I can see a lean back parry working if i do an overhead and they legitimately parry the tracer on the front side, but when i stab nowhre near their weapon on their back and it gets parried… my blood turns into lava every time.

    I could probably go on but this is probably already a huge wall of text so i’ll cut it short here.

    Its sad to know that many experienced players rely heavily on hit trading and are not brave enough to openly admit that they like it the way it is. Realistically, the only way to get fhf would be to only scrim using the merc mod and not accepting scrims unless its on a server running the mod. Even then, not everyone agrees on using the mod within Tempest.

    Anyway, 90% of people playing this game ‘‘competitively’’ doesn’t give a single fuck about the caveman meta, and that’s where the real problem is. And don’t give me that bs that its your own fault if you get traded, it is in 1v1, but who the fuck balances the game around duels???



  • @Frodiziak:

    Its sad to know that many experienced players rely heavily on hit trading and are not brave enough to openly admit that they like it the way it is. Realistically, the only way to get fhf would be to only scrim using the merc mod and not accepting scrims unless its on a server running the mod. Even then, not everyone agrees on using the mod within Tempest.

    Anyway, 90% of people playing this game ‘‘competitively’’ doesn’t give a single fuck about the caveman meta, and that’s where the real problem is. And don’t give me that bs that its your own fault if you get traded, it is in 1v1, but who the fuck balances the game around duels???

    that wasn’t what i heard while scrimming today with tempest. here’s what i think … no one complains when they are winning, but when they die to the shit is when it flies. People think the game is perfect when they’re doing well, they only see the issues more clearly when they lose to them. Omega was talking about testing out mercs today, but probably will get around it tomorrow spook too so I should be able to as well.

    the words trade and gamble were stated throughout our scrim at least 50 times+. We were all just laughing about it but still won of course. Then you don’t really hear anything when they run all over the next team. It’s apparent to players man more than you might think, even the ones that may like it. People know it’s fucked up and there’s more hackusations than ever (and rightly so in some situations) but i mean it’s hard to deny this meta is bad and the playstyles are bad. Think of how many players are in comp scene now that just shoot through the skill ceiling in a matter of weeks. The game is too dumbed down and the ceiling is yet again very low.

    It’s not really that a lot of these competitive players are good, its just that the meta boosts their skill artificially.



  • This prehistoric meta is indeed very cheap, sometimes people don’t even parry. I mean, I hit the guy and combo, he windup and take to the face, I combo again and the fucker windup again too! The problem is pro cavemans who can force this shit and **** your face, if we had FHF would be more fair to fight these guys.

    I caveman too of course, its so fucking effective that even vanguards trade nowadays. I confess that I find funny to caveman MAAs, FHF would make zwei more fair against them imo.



  • I think the only people that would be suited to balancing the game is those who simply have a keen eye for just knowing what is right and what is not. Like a drastic change shouldn’t be considered unless this said “council member” has fully researched and investigated the pros and cons of such a change. People like elwebbarro, Crushed, Ky Wild, Sophax, Shard are just a few people that I’d have no gripes with seeing as part of a revamped, renewed and democratic balance council. Notice they all have over 1000 hours of game time and are very experienced to make necessary tweaks to the game. Believe it or not but there are people in this game who I would personally say might have a right to even dictate what changes are necessary and good for most players, even new ones, but alas it is still better to have a democratic arrangement where perhaps a new forum/sub-forum can be opened for the public to vote on a poll that would enable the council members to determine what to do next:

    Push the update out into the beta branch to let people test it?
    Update the base game with the new patch?
    Post a “draft” of the possible changelog to the aforementioned forum, allowing people to have their vote/say?
    Trash it altogether and only make the absolutely necessary kinds of changes? (bug fixes, map fixes etc)

    This idea in itself could improve the span of control TBS have over their games, just by allowing appropriately appointed players of the community to make patches for it. It would even have the benefit of giving TBS peace of mind, knowing that they can entrust the players of their game with making changes core mechanics (if necessary) and allowing them to have important privileges. It would be the best evidence of a great success with Chivalry 1 and would probably net more of a playerbase for their next game, because a headline in a popular gaming magazine or Flipboard source like “Indie company allows it’s community to make their own patches” would catch the eye of any avid gamer.



  • Maybe, but they can create their own mods now (e.g. MERC) and balance test that. If the vast majority of the competitive community agree to the changes then I am sure TBS would consider it. Better than individuals asking for random changes.


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