Vangaurds are a little OP



  • Actually when I duel a MAA as Vanguard I usually switch to my 1H.

    Even when using the Claymore (Fastest 2H sword) my attacks are so slow that he can simply shield block and then dodge in to hit me with very fast strikes. If he’s not using a shield I have some success with feinting/delaying attacks (Especially with the slow Zweihander) but generally when a MAA comes around I switch to my 1h axe so I can be of equal speed.

    Also, when fighting Vanguards with polearms I usually switch to my 1h too. If you manage to close the distance using a variation of parrying and kicking, you can usually overwhelm them. It’s certainly easier than using my slow 2H which has a shorter reach.

    TL;DR I think that currently the long reach weapons are just pubstomping because people don’t know how to exploit their slowness and how to close the gap.



  • @dragonfury:

    Actually when I duel a MAA as Vanguard I usually switch to my 1H.

    Even when using the Claymore (Fastest 2H sword) my attacks are so slow that he can simply shield block and then dodge in to hit me with very fast strikes. If he’s not using a shield I have some success with feinting/delaying attacks (Especially with the slow Zweihander) but generally when a MAA comes around I switch to my 1h axe so I can be of equal speed.

    Also, when fighting Vanguards with polearms I usually switch to my 1h too. If you manage to close the distance using a variation of parrying and kicking, you can usually overwhelm them. It’s certainly easier than using my slow 2H which has a shorter reach.

    TL;DR I think that currently the long reach weapons are just pubstomping because people don’t know how to exploit their slowness and how to close the gap.

    You are correct. I do switch if I have time… But on so many occasions I turn to my side and a MAA is right in my grill. I have no choice but to fight with my polearm. A good MAA is just too much to handle even with every feint, perry, and block trick in the book when using a 2 hander.



  • @dragonfury:

    Even when using the Claymore (Fastest 2H sword) my attacks are so slow that he can simply shield block

    Now this - this is an issue. I truly detest how shields are only able to be bypassed when up close, and completely nullify the use of feinting. Actually many things about shields are in need of changes IMO.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Now this - this is an issue. I truly detest how shields are only able to be bypassed when up close, and completely nullify the use of feinting. Actually many things about shields are in need of changes IMO.

    I find shields hard to use. I prefer MAA with just just an axe and fire pit. I try to do the knight with shield, but can’t seem to do well with it.



  • We are getting a little bit off-topic, but I felt like saying this anyways.

    I think that shields should be nerfed in somewhat way, cause they serve their purpose well. I love the way that they infact cover your screen, which they didn’t do so well in AoC. IF you hold-block with the towershield for too long, you’ll most likely get an sneaky attack from the sides, so tap-blocking would be best to do, and remember that the shield doesn’t change the way you parry. They are also quite decent to counter feints, due to hold-block option, and they of course block enemy projectiles when equipped or on back. That’s the true purpose of the shield, and I think IF any changes should be made, then the shield should be nerfed :)



  • It’s still a bit on topic, because shields take away the vanguard’s biggest strength by forcing him to fight you up close as he has no hope of getting around your shield otherwise.



  • @reapy:

    Hard countered by range. Try to approach an archer on ruins who can aim as a VG. Not an easy thing.

    I think they are balanced nicely, adding in the thrust/overhead from sprint and having smoke actually cloud up an area makes them a pretty well rounded class imho.

    I don’t think they offer anything up that would make you want to 100% take them over a knight or MAA.

    i personally fully agree with this. VG is definately my favorite class, but i can easily get killed by a knight or maa that knows how to play his guy and get in close. Plus, this isnt a 1v1 game, its a team based game. use ur teamates to help if need be. I avoid maa’s on my vg cuz i know what they can do to me.



  • I agree with OP all the way i play MAA all the time.
    i dont know about the nerf tho but i agree with Op.

    Vangaurds have More health, more Reach, fast attacks, run fast perrying/whatever its called does crap…
    and are overall good.

    MAA uhhhh …Dodges? and yea thats about it.



  • My problem with the vanguard is not his reach…but that he can still hit you when you are really close.

    The polearms should have a “window” SO you cant get stabbed in the face when you are 2 inches away from him. For example. Really all them honestly. The swords are too powerful in my opinion. Swing too fast. But the polearms, well, if you swing an axe on a long pole at someone who is 2 inches in front of you, you will miss. Same with the spear. It should be ineffective inside a certain range.

    EDIT: Here is another grip. The vanguard special attack needs a small nerf. All the vangaurds needs to do is run away, then he can instantly turn 180 degrees and do his special attack. Perhaps slow his turning when he is “charging”.



  • If any class needs a nerf its the MAA.

    Maybe allow for them to take 1 more hit before dying, but the MAA swing way too fast to the point where they just block you one time, run into point blank, and stab you 4 times before you can even kick them backwards. If you parry their attack, their weapon speed is so fast that they can setup another parry or swing at you before you get a chance to land an attack.

    The only way I beat an MAA is to kill him before he reaches point blank.

    But seriously, I won’t even play this damn class for any game type. It’s too OP that despite being the most fast paced class, it’s just not fun for me. Maybe on LAN, but not with 100 ping… blocking those attacks is very difficult to the point where I would say it is definitely not balanced.

    What you could do for the MAA is increase health by 20% but also increase parry delay by 20%, and decrease attack speed by 20% (or 10% or whatever seems balanced).

    Other than that, the game is pretty flawless. No game has ever been released without its balance issues, I’m confident they will make improvements on the balance in the coming month or two.



  • What you will see for scores depends on the game mode.

    In TO you always have many vs many set ups, there are usually 3 ‘backstabs’ available to you at any given moment, doing the most damage and having the most reach will allow you the most kill potential.

    In FFA, it honestly just comes down to backstab timing and having ~50 damage you can put out. If you are 1 on 1ing a person and take longer than 15 seconds, pretty much 100% of the time a 3rd party will come in and kill someone.

    The balance thing ultimately comes down to the weapons. VG isn’t as crippled with the jump attack anymore, and I think that really helped them imho, but I always find the VG’s as nice softies that can’t take too much punishment.

    I think that 1h weapons have more control overall in this game. It is a game about getting around blocks, and a 1h weapon just has more options. Getting close is still pretty easy, just block on your way in. Then you an rock left and overhand, or stab/slash around the right, both of which are pretty good at going round a person you are face hugging. I just find it way easier to overwhelm people with 1h vs the 2h weapons with good maneuvering, esp shields.

    But 1h still takes a bit more work, and you have to sick your neck out a touch more to get in that close, but overall, I think that mastering 1h’s will be more important than 2h for racking up kills. As blocking improves I just don’t think 2h’s will be able to keep up.



  • @Rag2RichesFX:

    If any class needs a nerf its the MAA.

    Maybe allow for them to take 1 more hit before dying, but the MAA swing way too fast to the point where they just block you one time, run into point blank, and stab you 4 times before you can even kick them backwards. If you parry their attack, their weapon speed is so fast that they can setup another parry or swing at you before you get a chance to land an attack.

    The only way I beat an MAA is to kill him before he reaches point blank.

    But seriously, I won’t even play this damn class for any game type. It’s too OP that despite being the most fast paced class, it’s just not fun for me. Maybe on LAN, but not with 100 ping… blocking those attacks is very difficult to the point where I would say it is definitely not balanced.

    What you could do for the MAA is increase health by 20% but also increase parry delay by 20%, and decrease attack speed by 20% (or 10% or whatever seems balanced).

    Other than that, the game is pretty flawless. No game has ever been released without its balance issues, I’m confident they will make improvements on the balance in the coming month or two.

    Im sorry but thats very hard to believe
    sorry :?



  • @reapy:

    What you will see for scores depends on the game mode.

    In TO you always have many vs many set ups, there are usually 3 ‘backstabs’ available to you at any given moment, doing the most damage and having the most reach will allow you the most kill potential.

    In FFA, it honestly just comes down to backstab timing and having ~50 damage you can put out. If you are 1 on 1ing a person and take longer than 15 seconds, pretty much 100% of the time a 3rd party will come in and kill someone.

    The balance thing ultimately comes down to the weapons. VG isn’t as crippled with the jump attack anymore, and I think that really helped them imho, but I always find the VG’s as nice softies that can’t take too much punishment.

    I think that 1h weapons have more control overall in this game. It is a game about getting around blocks, and a 1h weapon just has more options. Getting close is still pretty easy, just block on your way in. Then you an rock left and overhand, or stab/slash around the right, both of which are pretty good at going round a person you are face hugging. I just find it way easier to overwhelm people with 1h vs the 2h weapons with good maneuvering, esp shields.

    But 1h still takes a bit more work, and you have to sick your neck out a touch more to get in that close, but overall, I think that mastering 1h’s will be more important than 2h for racking up kills. As blocking improves I just don’t think 2h’s will be able to keep up.

    This I agree with. The game will become about speed. The MaA and Vanguard will become the main classes, and knights will fall out of use because they are faaaaaar to slow for much except taking down new players.

    The MaA and vangaurd have the advantage in that. They swing and move much faster, and the MaA can virtually teleport around everyone.



  • Some people say that the Vanguards are overpowered.
    Some other say that the Man-At Arms are, but I think that’s uttely wrong.
    A skilled Man-At Arms can fight down an Vanguard, and aswell the vanguard can but his long ranged attack to his own advantage and fight down the Man-At Arms? IF they get too close? why not just kick them away?

    People should practice more before they state their opinions about the classes, becuase there are so many techniques they can use to break a Man-At Arms or Vanguards defence, and by being a berserker is not the way.

    To people whom struggle to fight these “Beastly” Vanguards.
    Try to parry his attack and get close enough to him to give him some of your own, don’t do much comboes because the vanguards might slip in a slash then. IF by any chance this is a slashing Vanguard? did you even know that you could perfom a duck that would make you duck straight under his slash, unless he aims low, and after that he will be left entirely wide open for an attack !

    To people whom struggle to fight these Man-At Arms
    You got to use your long-ranged weapons for your own advantage to keep the Man-At Arms at distance while you keep him attacked / preasured, that will work a little bit on the mentality behind the one fighting as Man-At Arms, if there’s one move I particulary love to perfom against bunny hopping Man-At arms, then its to do a feint at the distance, cause straight after my wind-up, they will try to side-step and get into me, but since I’ll be feinting, he will get a blow straight after he side-steps, and he would never see it coming. after you take most of his hitpoints, he will go into a defensive stance, knowing that one more hit will kill him, so just go aggresive, use feints and ta-da.

    Want to learn more techniques? then I can teach you myself.

    However, this seems to be a forever going forum about which class is overpowered or not.



  • @wildwulfy:

    Some people say that the Vanguards are overpowered.
    Some other say that the Man-At Arms are, but I think that’s uttely wrong.
    A skilled Man-At Arms can fight down an Vanguard, and aswell the vanguard can but his long ranged attack to his own advantage and fight down the Man-At Arms? IF they get too close? why not just kick them away?

    People should practice more before they state their opinions about the classes, becuase there are so many techniques they can use to break a Man-At Arms or Vanguards defence, and by being a berserker is not the way.

    To people whom struggle to fight these “Beastly” Vanguards.
    Try to parry his attack and get close enough to him to give him some of your own, don’t do much comboes because the vanguards might slip in a slash then. IF by any chance this is a slashing Vanguard? did you even know that you could perfom a duck that would make you duck straight under his slash, unless he aims low, and after that he will be left entirely wide open for an attack !

    To people whom struggle to fight these Man-At Arms
    You got to use your long-ranged weapons for your own advantage to keep the Man-At Arms at distance while you keep him attacked / preasured, that will work a little bit on the mentality behind the one fighting as Man-At Arms, if there’s one move I particulary love to perfom against bunny hopping Man-At arms, then its to do a feint at the distance, cause straight after my wind-up, they will try to side-step and get into me, but since I’ll be feinting, he will get a blow straight after he side-steps, and he would never see it coming. after you take most of his hitpoints, he will go into a defensive stance, knowing that one more hit will kill him, so just go aggresive, use feints and ta-da.

    Want to learn more techniques? then I can teach you myself.

    However, this seems to be a forever going forum about which class is overpowered or not.

    I’d rep this post if I could. ^^^ Everything above is spot on.

    I’m going to prelude by saying I’m not trying to upset or poke fun at anyone. I’m NOT talking about you personally, so don’t take it that way.

    With that out of the way, people need to stop bitching about things in this game. Just today I hit top score with my Archer, which concludes my “every class at the top” experiment. In team objective, there’s an opportunity for every class to be top scorer. The Archer was the one class I never saw at #1, but since achieving it myself, I know for a fact it can be done.

    The balance in this game is near flawless. Every class, every weapon has their strengths and weaknesses while sharing several common weaknesses across all classes. Deft movement, kicks and timing will allow any class to take on any other class and win.

    If you don’t have 30+ hours of gameplay under your belt, you have no place calling something OP. I’d personally wait even longer before making decisions. Many of my own posts are just debunking the OP bandwagon that people clamor onto post release.

    I’ll tell you also, I never played the alpha or beta of this game, nor have I ever played AoC. Chivalry is my first experience with a competitive “slasher” and I’m simply blown away at how much true skill is involved in gameplay. A herpderp point and click shooter this is not. Even the Archery is hard to get the hang of and master, and even then, there’s no guarantee’s you won’t just be shanked in the back by someone who managed a good flank.

    There’s simply too many variables, strategies and playstyles for people to be pointing the OP stick at anything right now. Even the niche playstyles have their place and are brutally effective when used correctly.

    People need to give this game, and themselves, time. And I’m not talking about a couple weeks, I’m talking months to half a year before anything is messed with or tweaked. Tell you the truth, when I see someone giving feedback and calling for a nerf, I see an inexperienced player who’s given up and not willing to experiment around with alternative strategies.



  • @Boxohope:

    I’ve seen this happen with WAY too many games in the past. The majority of the community will make balancing complaints and all of the “veteran” players will shrug it off as incompetence even though it’s clearly broken.

    I will parry a vanguard with a short sword, attack, and because he’s mashing lmb his swing will be too far in to be stopped by my slash. They have so much reach I can’t sidestep them or anything, so I need to duel them up front, and this happens every single time. Look at ALL of the servers, VGs are top scoring in 80% of games. You’re saying that isn’t a balancing problem? I decided to try it myself and ended up topscoring as VG and Knight by spamming lmb over and over again. Only archers killed me, this is ridiculous.

    I didn’t play AoC, I didn’t play this game’s beta, I don’t know the frames, if there’s types of damage, or anything super korean about this game.

    But you can’t have an attack parried and then reswing and beat out a shortsword. YOU are not reacting fast enough. And I don’t know what servers you’re playing on but I’ve seen more knights and MAA top the kill counts.

    Also figure it out, vanguards should be able to get kills on new players (which 90% of the players are from what I’ve seen). They swing huge weapons and players that don’t know exactly how to block or counterswing are going to get cleaved.



  • It’s barely been a week in to release yet, the highest damaging slashing weapons will be the most complained about and coincidentally all the Vanguard primaries are 2H. If you tried any of that spammy slashy stuff on someone who knows what they’re doing, you’ll be sent away probably without a single kill. And then, if you parry>slash>parry>slash with the Vanguard weapons, you aren’t really going to get anywhere either.



  • Of course the highest damaging slash weapons will dominate when people just run straight into them and rely too much on their own luck. People should try out other techniques than rushing into a group, eager to slash their ways through to get a kill, instead of playing on the smart side.

    IF the game would be nerfed for every turn a player would find themself in a situation where they disliked a “Certain style” that is really hard to fight, then the game would be a perfect match for the average Call of Duty : Modern warfare 3 gamers.

    I’ve even found myself in a situation where my techniques or style have been read by the opponent and had me fall to him, that would happend to sometimes be the guy who leads the clan, and then I’ve tried to change Technique and style for a bit, and that has worked.

    Its all about timing and technique.



  • We all know Knight is the best class right now anyway :?



  • @SlyGoat:

    We all know Knight is the best class right now anyway :?

    “Take a small hit from the enemy then whack his head clean off.”


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