Let's talk about balance between different classes



  • I bought DW few days ago from sale in steam and when i got to play i really though “Hey! there are pirates and i love pirates I will play pirate!” but from time to time it is really a let down that any other class can stomp pirate just because their weak point is melee fight (1h weapon nothing special and no shield) and they don’t really rule ranged fight either unless there is A LOT of them sure there is scenarios where you can outplay your opponent but the problem I see here is the next: Blunderbuss should be hip-fire able (It’s an old version of shotgun why should you aim to shoot with it? :D) another thing if you ever watched deadliest warrior in episode Knights vs. Pirates they point out that pirates had six pistols with them cause they really didn’t have time to reload matchlock weapons in mid fight also i think a good compensation for 6 pistols no reloading would be reducing their damage to some point. Also I think that viking shield throw might be a bit too powerful cause it does over 50% of knights maximum hp if it hits and projectile is fairly fast. Please notice this is a novice opinion, but i really think that Pirates are way too easy to kill considering they have second lowest armor and they have longest vulnerability cause of needing to load between every shot even pistol. Please submit your own opinions about balance issues.



  • Nothing you said is really wrong, but Torn Banner has pretty much abandoned this game. They patched DW ONCE and released ONE cosmetic item pack, and never touched it again. It’s been months since they’ve even acknowledged DW’s existence, never mind actually discussing patching it. The community that plays this game is pretty much dead and TB doesn’t seem at all interested in reviving it. DW was a quick cash-in they made for profit.



  • @Oy:

    Nothing you said is really wrong, but Torn Banner has pretty much abandoned this game. They patched DW ONCE and released ONE cosmetic item pack, and never touched it again. It’s been months since they’ve even acknowledged DW’s existence, never mind actually discussing patching it. The community that plays this game is pretty much dead and TB doesn’t seem at all interested in reviving it. DW was a quick cash-in they made for profit.

    And in that acknowledgement of existence they said that DW is not their focus right now.

    Which actually means “we’re lazy fucks and can’t be bothered”.

    Hasnt been patched since janurary 2014.



  • @lemonater47:

    And in that acknowledgement of existence they said that DW is not their focus right now.

    Which actually means “we’re lazy fucks and can’t be bothered”.

    Hasnt been patched since janurary 2014.

    I mean really, how hard is it to make some fixes you’ve already successfully implemented in MW into DW, like a working server browser? How hard is it to even add a weapon skin or two. How hard is it to even explain why you abandoned it instead of that stupid, nonsense business answer of “It’s not our focus.”

    It’s that kind of cold disconnect, then lack of any more communication except a few small posts by 1 or 2 “forum representatives” from Torn Banner who actually manage to visit the forums and say hi. Whether it’s some developer rule, lack of interest, or just fear of trolling, but none of the staff really post at all. Just a couple mods, a couple devs, and a couple dozen vets that still stick around for some reason.

    That UDK4 project better be so mindblowing that my brain starts to vibrate at such a high frequency that I hallucinate that Chivalry 2 was worth the wait.



  • Well I actually think it’s more of a case of not having enough staff. 2 active games a 3rd on the way with twenty-something staff. Too ambitious for what they have.

    Nobody would care if they delayed their UE4 project and swap their focus to their current games. DW really only needs one patch it’s in a better state balance than than MW is in currently but still has issues. Issues everyone mostly agrees on however. Unlike MW.



  • dead game.



  • Yea idk why they dropped this game



  • It was only made to buy the company pool you know. I thought it was quite a good game after purchasing it.
    After one of my boxset breaks on the return it seem almost dead completely tbh. It was something to do with pirates
    with guns wasn’t it?



  • Well in light of recent events, our bitching may have paid off as they’re updating DW finaly. Like I said, most of it is copy/paste fixes from MW, which is highly welcomed. Thanks for slaving away TB!



  • Pirate class is absolutely amazing, both in duels, and with numbers. As far as balance goes, every class has something broken about it, it simply falls upon you to abuse it or not.



  • @Oy:

    The community that plays this game is pretty much dead

    The EU community is still trying to hold on to DW, lol. Although it is slowly dying. We’ve been pretty persistent in trying to keep the game alive, even creating a petition to make TB fix the game, which recieved 140 signatures or something (you probably saw that). Hopefully with the new patch coming, it becomes easier for TB to fix bugs in the game and they will actually do something about the shitty state it’s in. (fix plant the banner? please? i keep asking about it haha)



  • All they need to do to balance Deadliest Warrior, is to fix a few weapon animations, nerf a few values, and remove feinting. Suddenly, balance.



  • Remove feinting!?!? Balancing some values sure but personally: more game mechanics > less game mechanics.



  • Feinting has no place in Deadliest Warrior. There is no counter to it. No matter how good you think you are at stopping feints, I can guarantee you, you aren’t good at stopping feints. It is just an easy panic parry button, and it isn’t necessary to be good. You can easily achieve the same result by dragging, and flinching, only with a higher skill requirement.



  • @TheMightyAltroll:

    Feinting has no place in Deadliest Warrior. There is no counter to it. No matter how good you think you are at stopping feints, I can guarantee you, you aren’t good at stopping feints. It is just an easy panic parry button, and it isn’t necessary to be good. You can easily achieve the same result by dragging, and flinching, only with a higher skill requirement.

    This guy knows what he is talking about.
    Deadliest Warrior is NOT Medieval Warfare. They are two seperate games in terms of combat (even though deadliest warrior is technically a DLC). While a lot of stuff has been reused or slightly tweaked from CMW to CDW without too much trouble, feinting is a mechanic that works fine in Medieval Warfare but is not balanced for CDW at all. There are a couple of key reasons as to why feinting is not balanced in Deadliest Warrior compared to the original game. I have logged roughly 1000 hours in Chivalry (CMW and CDW combined) so far and I can safely say that 75% of this gametime is from Deadliest Warrior alone, so I’m talking from experience. If you ask any other player from the CDW community they will probably agree with me:

    1. The game pace is different. While CMW can be fast paced (e.g. weapons like SoW or norse sword), CDW takes the fast paced gameplay a bit further with some attacks leaving you with barely a blink of an eye to react to the animation before you are hit (not even exaggerating), which makes reading feints against these weapons pretty much impossible, turning the feint reading aspect of the combat into complete guesswork.

    2. It’s easier getting kills without feints in CDW compared to CMW. This point is kind of related to the first. However, the fast pace of the gameplay isn’t the only reason why kills in CDW are easier to achieve without feints compared to CMW. I’ve noticed that hitting around the opponent’s “parrybox” in CDW is a bit easier, making footwork and defensive/offensive aiming more important for fights in CDW compared to CMW. This makes attacks like dragstabs really nasty with some weapons, in perticular the halberd (or “halderp”, as it’s commonly referred to by the CDW community) has an infamous dragstab capability. Some weapons are also a bit broken, giving players an opportunity to abuse a buggy hitbox on the weapon etc. The one handed SoW alt-slash hitting with the handle or the spartan alt-shieldbash being super fast and ridiculously hard to parry (weird hitbox) are both pretty good examples of this. Because of these differences between CDW and CMW combat, high level play won’t be a very back and forth repetitive duel with an overrepesentation of parries like it might turn out in CMW without feints between two really good players.

    3. Stamina penalty is way less punishing in Deadliest Warrior compared to Medieval Warfare. A very relevant point- not usually mentioned though in “CDW feint debates” since people wouldn’t usually get to the out-of-stamina phase in a CDW duel with feints (kills would be achieved very quickly with fast weapons). However, if a fight were to go in a stage where either player runs out of stamina due to poor use of feints, they wouldn’t really get punished by this, whereas in CMW you would probably lose as a result of it - or atleast lose a lot of health. When you run out of stamina in CDW and get stunned for parrying an attack while exhausted, you will be out of the stun fast enough to parry a followup attack (with a few exceptions like with a viking who has combo speed bonus for chaining attacks, which won’t break if the parry turns into a stun). In CMW this isn’t possible unless your opponent doesn’t attack you quickly enough when you get stunned. The only real downside of running out of stamina in CDW is that you can’t kick or combo, which is a basically just a minor annoyance at most and you can quickly regain your stamina by disengaging for a bit and be over it. No biggie. As a result of this absent punishment of feint misuse (running out of stamina), feints are much more powerful in CDW. There is barely any downside to them, except if your opponent happens to gamble just as you feint, which can be avoided by being a bit careful (e.g. feinting mostly during your first attack so you can feint to parry if the opponent gambles).



  • Overly simplified version of how I’ve always seen it: Feinting increases the skill ceiling, higher skill ceiling is good, feinting is good.

    It’s mostly a community thing that is why DW players don’t feint. There was a time where I thought feinting was less fair in DW compared to MW. However I think that opinion may be just an excuse because we’re too lazy to learn how to deal with feinting and learn how to most effectively feint ourselves. (or something like that)



  • @Irish:

    It’s mostly a community thing that is why DW players don’t feint.

    Correct, it’s a community thing that people in DW don’t feint. If it was an official rule to not feint the mechanic wouldn’t even be in the game. The reason why it’s a community choice to make feinting taboo is because it’s unbalanced. Just like using the knight mace is frowned upon among other ridiculously unbalanced aspects of the game. This is because the game hasn’t seen the slightest touch of official game balance by the devs since release so the community has to take matters into its own hands.

    @Irish:

    There was a time where I thought feinting was less fair in DW compared to MW. However I think that opinion may be just an excuse because we’re too lazy to learn how to deal with feinting and learn how to most effectively feint ourselves. (or something like that)

    Did you read my comment at all? My points for why feinting in CDW is not the same as feinting in CMW aren’t just arguments that I pulled out of my arse.

    @Irish:

    Overly simplified version of how I’ve always seen it: Feinting increases the skill ceiling, higher skill ceiling is good, feinting is good.

    While this is generally true (and it is completely true for CMW), and feinting in CDW would make defending against attacks harder, it certainly wouldn’t make for entertaining, good or fair combat. Would be very stale and shallow combat with LOTS of panics. People without 120hz monitors would be COMPLETELTY left in the dust. Even with a 120hz monitor, some attacks are very hard to spot before they hit you. If you introduce feints too, it will be complete guesswork as I explained in my other comment. Not to mention people would completely abandon slower weapons for speedy ones like ninjato.

    It’s funny how when it comes to debates on feints within CDW, it seems like the opinions of people who mainly play CDW are just regarded as ignorant and lazy. “Just git gud”. If anything, people who have played CDW for a long time have more of a say in topics regarding balance of the game than a CMW player who has barely ever touched it. (Not specifically referring to you, Irish Canadian, but this seems like the general situation with CMW players discussing the topic)

    The few CMW players (competitive CMW players) who have played a lot of CDW too, don’t feint in the DLC. And no, it’s not just because it’s frowned upon by the community. When they are fighting eachother they don’t feint either. It’s just very different and you can’t really relate to it unless you’ve played enough of CDW to fight in the higher ranked combat.

    Sorry for the essay of a response.



  • Yes I did read everything you have to say. I’ve played equal or more DW than anyone else out there so I know exactly where you’re coming from. I mean your writing is really good and all but again it is in a persuasive format so it is therefore by design meant to be a bit misleading to your opinion with all the presentation of a fact then an implication to an opinion and whatnot.

    In all honestly though I’ve played soo much DW (and because there is a no-feint etiquette associated with DW) that the few (good) feinting players are so much more exciting to fight than even some of the most skilled no feinting players. Also I truly believe these feinting players can beat some of the most skilled players mainly because we have no practice versus feinting players in DW (and not just because it is possibly more ‘gimmicky’).

    Feinting will always exist so watching players that are otherwise better, and would be better if they were used to feints lose to feints is kind of embarrassing. Also how the community deals with it is embarrassing as well: It’s a witch hunt when someone feints and someone else complains about their feinting.

    Now I really like that you brought up specific weapons would shift the meta if feinting wasn’t frowned upon in DW. Specifically though you are spot on: ninja doesn’t make any sounds when it attacks and ninjato stabs are really quick that may be scarier but ninja still needs to get of multiple hits to kill it’s prey compared to everyone two shotting ninjas. Smart ninjas can typically get ninjato swipes off just based on attacking in a direction relative to you that is hard to block kind of like alt lmb on 1H SoW.

    Maybe faster weapons would be even more scary but I’m more interested in the thought experiment on a broader scale: I don’t know about EU but in NA the sarissa is rarely used (of course there are exceptions like sarissa gangbang squads). Yari isn’t used a whole lot either, not that Yari is a weak weapon (personally I think it is the best 2H spear) but it isn’t meta like nodachi. I use poleaxe, and a few other knights play a bit of poleaxe in NA but overall it is another one of the least meta weapons.

    What would you say is meta in DW now and what do you think the meta weapons would be if feinting wasn’t frowned upon?
    Meta now: Dory/Falcata, Any samurai weapon minus yari and waki, anything Viking for the most part, SoW/Halberd, ninjato
    Things that might get used more if feints were less frowned upon: sarrisa, yari, poleaxe, (bo staff?)



  • Aussies think feinting in MW is imbalanced so they mostly don’t do it. They sound just as persuasive too.



  • Feinting is broken, if you think it isn’t broken, then you can stand still and try to parry me while I feint. It is impossible to avoid a feint on reaction, unless you know what to look for, and some classes (Knight/Ninja) don’t even have the same tells as other classes.


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