Alt Swing Distance Bias - Messer is messed up.

  • Well it is time for another semi discovery. Let me know if you guys already know this. So I have been doing some static testing on the |ĶiĻă| Thunderdome server and here is what I found. There is, in most cases, a increased distance bias, per weapon, per swing combo where most increased distance of swings, favor the ALT swing.

    My testing is far from complete but let me first explain my method of testing. As admin, I would “admin adddummies 10”. This would create 10 bots that would not walk around but stand there and swing, many would do variations of swing combos. What I would do is face the bot and get as close to the swing without getting hit with the combo. After a successful miss of the combo, I would inch a little forward and let the bot combo happen again and again. I would do this till one of the swings would make contact. So here is what I found out.

    Messer is the most egregious when it comes to directional swing distance. The combo would miss the first swing but then the ALT combo swing would make contact. Keep in mind that neither the bot or I had moved at all. The distance gap was crazy between the two swings when standing still. This might explain why Messer animations seem so wonky and you get hit at such a distance sometimes.

    It looks like the double axe is probably the most even when it comes to increased distance between the two swings.

    Halberd and bardiche increased distance is clearly on the Alt as well but the difference between the swing and the alt swing is not as great.

    Both the long sword and the sword of war also favor the Alt swing when it comes to distance.

    Clearly more testing needs to be done but I started noticing this when playing that my ALT swing would almost always hit and I would miss more often with my regular swing. Feel free to test and post your results. But it seems quite telling between weapons.

  • We’ve known this for a while though I don’t think it’s common knowledge.

  • Works on walls do.

    Not really an issue as you have to keep in mind both players will be moving and the extra distance is barely anything. And in some cases it’s the other way around the alt swing is shorter. Having found a weapon where they are exactly the same however.

  • it could be that the alt gives you a little more of that jump foward than the other attacks, the tracers being different, or just the windup increase somehow changes it’s swing. That’s all I could think of that would cause it.

  • Tracers are different. They aren’t an exact mirror of the first attack. Everyone knew that. But not many thought it would be longer/shorter.

  • Alt swings are perfect to catch backdodging MAA’s.

  • @Xylvion:

    Alt swings are perfect to catch backdodging MAA’s.

    True, its so hard for them to dodge a zweihander alt slash… Most of them dodge and take to the face anyways, or parry and get that stamina drain.

  • I disagree, it is a problem when certain weapons back swing distance is much greater than the forward swing. Some are very minor or non existent like the double axe where both are pretty much the same. But the dramatic difference between some, specially the Messer and the Zwei are ridiculous. The Messer is already a short weapon and players moving is irrelevant as both directions should be closer to the same range. I don’t know about you guys but nothing is more frustrating in combat to be hit by a swing that appears to be out of range and should be out of range and still get hit. The Messer being the worst so far because of the amount of damage it does and the increased range of the ALT swing. The other problem is naturally perceived right handedness of the game yet the left hand swing increases distance? Makes no sense from both a physical and animation position. There are many threads about broken swing animations, this is a major part of the cause. My 2 cents.

  • alt swings are slower by 100ms


    alt swings are slower by 100ms

    That was only done because when they released the patch that created Alt swings, they were that much faster. They currently have the same swing time, technically. What they did was add the 100ms delay to the beginning, before the swing to make the two swings have the same timing. However, this is really irrelevant to an increase in swing range. In some cases the difference in range is quite dramatic and should be fixed.


    alt swings are slower by 100ms

    He’s talking about when standing still though.

  • That is still really irrelevant and does not effect the range of the swing.

  • not irrelevant at all, if theres no extra range but 100ms slower theres no point using them apart from drags


    not irrelevant at all, if theres no extra range but 100ms slower theres no point using them apart from drags

    The 100ms makes it possible to hit further away while you’re moving though, the attack doesn’t need the extra reach while standing still, now does it?

  • I’ve had several wtf moments with the messer hitting me from too far away. I have no respect for that weapon or people who main it. Easiest shit by far.

  • Welp, I knew that the messer was fucked when slashing and now I know what’s wrong.

    And yeah, Messer is a pretty glitchy weapon and still the only weapon that’s reliably onehitting me as maa with slashes. Needs a nerf and a fix. Sick of it. :D

  • Messer messes up all you man-at-rats trying to h8 on it

    if you didnt want to get rekt by a messer, you shouldn’t play a chivalric game as a rat/human hybrid

  • @daniel10x:

    Messer messes up all you man-at-rats trying to h8 on it

    if you didnt want to get rekt by a messer, you shouldn’t play a chivalric game as a rat/human hybrid

    Well I main the halberd and far too many times the Messer out reaches my Halberd and I get wrecked by the amount of damage it does where my halberd doesnt even come close to the same amount of damage. So there goes your theory.

  • That’s not the halberd though, it’s your terrible footwork. I can “out reach” the spear with a hunting knife

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