Drags & Feints



  • @zombojoe:

    its also a gamble

    With experience and skill the risk is virtually nil. Play the game is a gamble, just killing vs doing the objective is a gamble. Timing your swing is a gamble. Timing your parry is a gamble. What is your point? Nothing is 100% effective 100% of the time. The feint mechanic is not broken, it adds far more depth than it would if you removed it. Dont believe me? Play Age of Chivalry and tell me how deep the combat is, it has no feint? Hell play the no feint mod and tell me the same. It’s ok, I’ll wait.



  • Feints become easier to read when you go from 60 fps to 120 btw.



  • @Hammertime:

    Feints become easier to read when you go from 60 fps to 120 btw.

    can confirm with my 144hz monitor



  • @zombojoe:

    can confirm with my 144hz monitor

    But with poverty internet :congratulatory:



  • @Retsnom:

    With experience and skill the risk is virtually nil. Play the game is a gamble, just killing vs doing the objective is a gamble. Timing your swing is a gamble. Timing your parry is a gamble. What is your point? Nothing is 100% effective 100% of the time. The feint mechanic is not broken, it adds far more depth than it would if you removed it. Dont believe me? Play Age of Chivalry and tell me how deep the combat is, it has no feint? Hell play the no feint mod and tell me the same. It’s ok, I’ll wait.

    Isn’t he already playing the no feint mod?
    Alone
    While everyone is playing with him with the feints

    Honestly though I barely play the feinting game myself.
    The game is still very fun with only dragging and not feinting.
    Sure I suck at comp feint reading so when I do find a good feinter I’ll enjoy sone good fights and it’ll be hella fun, I know I need that practice and a loot more experience to make up for my ping and I accept that.

    But if you’re pubbing do you even ever need the feint?
    It’s something that’s mainly fun doing against other good players. When you’re just playing on a random server there’s no point in playing the mind game (usually) because no one will play it with you.

    Pubbing is very different to comp. This radiant guy is a pub. It’s simple as.

    Then again I’m just your typical white knight longsworder and pretty much almost never feint first when pubbing



  • I went one round of feinting yesterday, just to see how people would react, I got votekicked (I decided to join another server and they were completely fine with feinting there though). I also played two rounds of third person skyfalling until I got votekicked. Then I went back to first person dragging and got similar scores but I didn’t get votekicked.
    Apparantly people don’t notice you if you drag as compared to looking like a hunchback or using the “very effective” game mechanic.



  • @CRUSHED:

    but muh ripostes, so much skill involved in those drag fights

    this kid never fought any good maul or halberd/polehammer

    this game is way too easy without feints, the skill ceiling is already meh compared to other first person slashers cough

    being able to read 80%+ of feints and being able to throw perfect feints everytime and not be predictable ever is fucking art. great real man

    If you’re referring to slasher, I find that funny, given feints in that game are far less potent than in Chivalry, but parrying is harder too. So, exactly what I am suggesting here.

    @Vanguard:

    This might be very relevant, there is no b0lonce without feints:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19k5UspQJsU

    Mauls are not balanced in duels, with or without feints.

    @ChuckingIt:

    The fact that it still applies to feints, is the reason why the majority of people accept feints as just another mechanic. Its not an “I win button”. I’ve lost a ton of duels because of a poorly placed feint.

    This game becomes dull when it involves standing point blank doing drags for minutes at a time hoping to get a kill or hoping someone stams out. Even if you don’t feint, knowing the fact someone MIGHT feint, makes duels become way more tense and plays out like a head game where you try to out wit your opponent not just physically but mentally.

    You don’t stand point blank in no feint duels. There’s plenty of footwork, plenty of timing attacks and anticipation. I swear, people think both players are just glued to one spot continuously riposting each other. What a ridiculous notion.

    I can’t for the life of me understand why people prefer having such an easy maneuver that is orders of magnitudes more effective than any other maneuver in the game. Can you misuse it? Sure it’s possible. That hardly makes it balanced.

    If you care about objective internal balance (where the mechanics of the game are in line with each other), which most obviously don’t, than you’d want feints nerfed but also parries made less effective. Even now without feints, at the peak of duels it is very intense and only if you’re both very evenly matched can it last a while. Maybe without the crutch of feints you’d realize most fights are over very fast without them too, if you’re good.

    But, given two peak players, it can still take a while as mentioned, which is why making parries harder is a good idea. Pushes that skill ceiling up a bit more without revolving the game around gambles.

    @Retsnom:

    With experience and skill the risk is virtually nil. Play the game is a gamble, just killing vs doing the objective is a gamble. Timing your swing is a gamble. Timing your parry is a gamble. What is your point? Nothing is 100% effective 100% of the time. The feint mechanic is not broken, it adds far more depth than it would if you removed it. Dont believe me? Play Age of Chivalry and tell me how deep the combat is, it has no feint? Hell play the no feint mod and tell me the same. It’s ok, I’ll wait.

    There aren’t any serious gambles without feints, in a duel. In team objective modes sure it’s different but as mentioned I am not talking about TO balance.

    Nothing is 100% effective, quite true. Even the best defense will still fall prey to a few %s worth of good drags, rispotes, reverses and other maneuvers. But they can all be defended against by a normal human brain without excellent hardware and low ping. If you fail to, it’s simply a mistake, not an inherent physiological limitation that reduces that defense to nothing more than luck.



  • @The:

    But, given two peak players, it can still take a while as mentioned, which is why making parries harder is a good idea. Pushes that skill ceiling up a bit more without revolving the game around gambles.

    feints in slasher are just as strong as chiv except stab feints are balanced due to stab chambers



  • @The:

    Mauls are not balanced in duels, with or without feints.

    Many weapons are not balanced in duels, whats your point? Halberd isnt, brandi isnt, archer dagger isnt, archers in general and not balanced in duels or regular play. (Archers are cancer). You just need to stop playing duels and think that dueling= skill and knowledge of the game

    You don’t stand point blank in no feint duels. There’s plenty of footwork, plenty of timing attacks and anticipation. I swear, people think both players are just glued to one spot continuously riposting each other. What a ridiculous notion.

    No one suggested that.

    I can’t for the life of me understand why people prefer having such an easy maneuver that is orders of magnitudes more effective than any other maneuver in the game. Can you misuse it? Sure it’s possible. That hardly makes it balanced.

    If you care about objective internal balance (where the mechanics of the game are in line with each other), which most obviously don’t, than you’d want feints nerfed but also parries made less effective. Even now without feints, at the peak of duels it is very intense and only if you’re both very evenly matched can it last a while. Maybe without the crutch of feints you’d realize most fights are over very fast without them too, if you’re good.

    But, given two peak players, it can still take a while as mentioned, which is why making parries harder is a good idea. Pushes that skill ceiling up a bit more without revolving the game around gambles.

    No that is not a good idea. Parries are not even close to being consistent. Sometimes you cannot hit someone from behind then other times it will go right through my parry. I would possibly agree on shortening the parry box from the bottom up to allow actual leg strikes but that is about it.

    There aren’t any serious gambles without feints, in a duel. In team objective modes sure it’s different but as mentioned I am not talking about TO balance.

    Nothing is 100% effective, quite true. Even the best defense will still fall prey to a few %s worth of good drags, rispotes, reverses and other maneuvers. But they can all be defended against by a normal human brain without excellent hardware and low ping. If you fail to, it’s simply a mistake, not an inherent physiological limitation that reduces that defense to nothing more than luck.

    You keep mentioning human reaction time and I think you are confusing human reaction speed to weapon speed as well as you expect the game to be Action/Reaction. Some weapons are almost too fast, specially if you are using a slower weapon. So you have to prepare for it similar to how you combo. Other than I guess you will have to either learn new skills, accept the game as designed and intended or quit playing.

    This dead horse will not be resurrected as it’s remains have turned to dust.



  • @The:

    Mauls are not balanced in duels, with or without feints.

    what is?///////////



  • @Rekrab:

    what is?///////////

    flail is OP with feints



  • @zombojoe:

    flail is OP with feints

    That’s when you pick a weapon that outreaches it and fuck around a bit until he’s dead

    Halberd stam drain meta



  • @CRUSHED:

    feints in slasher are just as strong as chiv except stab feints are balanced due to stab chambers

    no feint duels would be won by the first guy who goes maul and drains your stamina by aggressive play and parrying all the worthless drags

    you want to make parry harder so the game becomes even more cancer with backswings? 10/10 idea

    i keep wondering why you say excellent hardware when the best feint reader i knew played on a shitty laptop with 60hz 60fps

    people in NA cant read feints for shit so maybe t hats why you think feints are so broken lol. games need to be balanced around low ping otherwise they make no sense for the most part

    As I mentioned, maul is not balanced for duels. I only heard from Nobh’dy a while ago, and I watched some videos, feints didn’t seem nearly as strong as in Chivalry.

    I want to make parries harder by shortening the parry time window, that would make drags more potent as your parry would not last as long. Also making the parry window smaller, which means you have to aim a bit closer to the tip of their weapon.

    Given the weapon starts inside you or nearly with reverses I don’t think it would change anything in regards to them. It just makes general play more potent.

    If someone was playing at a normal ping (50<) at 60 fps and could directly defend against feints (not anticipate) 80% of the time… well, they would be genetic freaks of nature. One in ten million. I’m sure they do exist, people with preposterous reaction time, but you don’t balance a game mechanic around one person in ten million.



  • Keep giving excuses, only a few more responses to go before you can publish a novel on them



  • Radiant you stopped being relevant in this game so long ago it’s ridiculous. Back when you and Nick made that anti-feint video you actually had a point, but that was before feints were nerfed.

    It has been a very very long time since then and many people have been spending that time mastering fighting with and against feints. Almost everyone in the competitive scene knows that feinting needs to remain in Chivalry and that the game would be a boring and shallow waste of time without it. I’m not going to go through all the arguments because you’ve heard them all a million times. I will highlight a couple of key points though.

    1. Every game should be based around aggression. If a game allows the defensive player to have the advantage then it is fundamentally flawed, because the defensive player is taking no risks, therefore they shouldn’t have an advantage by being passive.

    2. There are MANY ways to defend yourself against feints, the #1 way being reading them, which is most certainly possible with 60 fps and average reaction time. (I used to play at 60 fps until about 4 months ago and I was one of best feint readers in the game. I have a reaction time of 211 ms, nothing crazy)

    You asked what you do when someone parries you? Well the most common thing you should do is just try to read their next attack. Reading your opponent is not a gamble, no matter what you say to the contrary. Secondly, if you are feeling that pressured you can kick them away, although i don’t usually do this b/c it’s a waste of time and stamina and should only be a last resort. Your next best option and actually what you should always do is be prepared to instantly throw an attack if they don’t riposte or attack right away. This gives you the initiative and they have to either parry you, be flinched or trade you. If you know that you are going to trade you can simply feint to parry. If you are positive that you attacked quick enough to easily flinch them then you can attempt to feint around their feint to parry, if they are a smart player and will actually try to defend themselves rather than just spamming.

    Here’s a (quite long) video where Spook and I explain in detail the intricacies of feint duels. There are multiple points in the video where we both read point blank longsword stab feints. And yes we fall for some of the feints as well, as many have stated this is not a 100% science, everyone falls for some feints. Otherwise what would be the point in using them?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLCPPU5Sc4

    Here’s another video where Colonial Star reads multiple norse sword feints at close range. The fight after he reads 2 more broadsword feints, one of them a facehug stab. Skip to 1:15

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6PskoGqfcE



  • @Omega:

    Here’s a (quite long) video where Spook and I explain in detail the intricacies of feint duels. There are multiple points in the video where we both read point blank longsword stab feints. And yes we fall for some of the feints as well, as many have stated this is not a 100% science, everyone falls for some feints. Otherwise what would be the point in using them?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLCPPU5Sc4

    Here’s another video where Colonial Star reads multiple norse sword feints at close range. The fight after he reads 2 more broadsword feints, one of them a facehug stab. Skip to 1:15

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6PskoGqfcE

    I didn’t want to stir the pot in here but I just can’t resist :p

    I completely support feinting in Chivalry and consider you one of the best players in the game and like you said this game is just plain boring without it. But….I just don’t believe that you or anyone for that matter can actually “read” facehug stab feints on any of the fast weapons in the game. It’s all about predicting patterns and doing your best to counter them at that point. If you’re playing on lan maybe it’s possible I’ve never tried but with any kind of ping mixed into the equation it’s just not possible.

    Now OH feints, Lmb feints, and even stabs with some range and good ping sure but reverse OHs and Lmbs really mess all that up. The speed that you can hit someone at with a well timed reverse will make anyone panic parry even a simple lmb feint read after getting hit with a couple lightning fast reverses. I love Chivalry it’s an awesome concept and the most fun I’ve ever had playing a video game but there’s some definite issues with the competitive aspect of the game that I doubt will ever get worked out.



  • @Dire:

    I didn’t want to stir the pot in here but I just can’t resist :p

    I completely support feinting in Chivalry and consider you one of the best players in the game and like you said this game is just plain boring without it. But….I just don’t believe that you or anyone for that matter can actually “read” facehug stab feints on any of the fast weapons in the game. It’s all about predicting patterns and doing your best to counter them at that point. If you’re playing on lan maybe it’s possible I’ve never tried but with any kind of ping mixed into the equation it’s just not possible.

    Now OH feints, Lmb feints, and even stabs with some range and good ping sure but reverse OHs and Lmbs really mess all that up. The speed that you can hit someone at with a well timed reverse will make anyone panic parry even a simple lmb feint read after getting hit with a couple lightning fast reverses. I love Chivalry it’s an awesome concept and the most fun I’ve ever had playing a video game but there’s some definite issues with the competitive aspect of the game that I doubt will ever get worked out.

    ya in live stab feints on swords at least are pretty retarded, we all know that. they did nerf it in mercs tho.



  • @Dire:

    I didn’t want to stir the pot in here but I just can’t resist :p

    I completely support feinting in Chivalry and consider you one of the best players in the game and like you said this game is just plain boring without it. But….I just don’t believe that you or anyone for that matter can actually “read” facehug stab feints on any of the fast weapons in the game. It’s all about predicting patterns and doing your best to counter them at that point. If you’re playing on lan maybe it’s possible I’ve never tried but with any kind of ping mixed into the equation it’s just not possible.

    Now OH feints, Lmb feints, and even stabs with some range and good ping sure but reverse OHs and Lmbs really mess all that up. The speed that you can hit someone at with a well timed reverse will make anyone panic parry even a simple lmb feint read after getting hit with a couple lightning fast reverses. I love Chivalry it’s an awesome concept and the most fun I’ve ever had playing a video game but there’s some definite issues with the competitive aspect of the game that I doubt will ever get worked out.

    I agree that true face hug stab feints on 2 hand swords can be problematic and ideally could use some tweaking, hopefully with the proposed ticks system we plan to implement. Personally I would rather have an extremely hard to read feint than a short feint window that would make feint to parries less viable. However, I do think that every feint in the game is readable with the exception of reverse overhead feints. Reverse overheads in general make feint reading more difficult and I die to them a lot more than I die to feints. Personally I find reverses very cheesy and never use them myself. One handed feints I find a lot easier to read than SoW stabs however, since they are so quick.

    Also Dire Wolf from what i’ve seen you always play between 68 and 80 ping, which totally changes your perspective on this. I typically play between 12 and 20 ping and once I go over 50 or 60 my performance suffers greatly since it throws off my timing so much. I parry very late and even 40 ping is too high for me to parry the way i’m used to. Personally I think that one handed feints and 2 hand sword feints are unreadable at close range over 60 ping.



  • @Omega:

    Also Dire Wolf from what i’ve seen you always play between 68 and 80 ping, which totally changes your perspective on this. I typically play between 12 and 20 ping and once I go over 50 or 60 my performance suffers greatly since it throws off my timing so much. I parry very late and even 40 ping is too high for me to parry the way i’m used to. Personally I think that one handed feints and 2 hand sword feints are unreadable at close range over 60 ping.

    You can still read them, that’s not the problem, however with high ping your parry simply doesn’t register at all if you do it at the last few dozen milliseconds.



  • @Monsteri:

    You can still read them, that’s not the problem, however with high ping your parry simply doesn’t register at all if you do it at the last few dozen milliseconds.

    If you ask me that’s the same as not being able to read them.
    Since you’re forced to take the hit anyways.

    When feint fighting with high ping you have to outplay your opponent and stay out of range.
    I mostly get pissed at ripostes though.
    Sometimes I use my footwork to make fast riposyes slow and I think to myself “dodged a bu-”, suddenly I get teleported back into range.

    That’s the most annoying thing right now. And it’s something that almost never happened to me before the january patch.


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