What type of map features emphasize chivalry's gameplay?



  • Some possible things that make interesting spaces to fight:

    Choke points (alley ways, door ways, tunnels) == few people can defend against many.

    High ground (jump-able ledge, fences, stairs, sloped ground) == easier to defend, more mobility.

    Tight corriders (house with low ceiling, alley ways, tunnels) == higher risk of hitting walls with big weapons.

    //
    Unfortunately there seems to be a consensus that fun areas are flat and open.
    It is the least interesting battle field (boring). I want to use the level to my advantage when I play.

    Any thoughts on this topic? What types of areas make for a fun battle field?



  • Flat is best because the knockback is broken and even the slightest angle will make you superman when parrying. Chokepoints are fine, but should be used sparingly, and have a way to exit them at any point (e.g castle walls with the inner edge open)



  • Yes, what Monsteri said. I’d say Hillside objective 3 is a good example of how a theoretically good chokepoint becomes knockback warfare due to the many stairs.
    It’s also a good example of another highly discussed topic. On top of the wall there aren’t enough ledges or occasional fences.
    You’re gonna want to have those here and there so not every death will result in people shouting “FUCK ARCHERS” at their monitor.



  • @Monsteri
    I agree that slopes make knock back an issue, but that is only on very extreme slopes, of at least 35 degrees or so.
    Besides, realistically you would have more leverage to push someone away when standing on higher ground.

    Also, I see no reason choke points should be used sparingly. If I want a place that is easy to defend it should have as many chokepoints as necessary.

    @Rickvs

    Hillside ob.3 staircases are awesome! I love that objective. The stair cases are a perfect place to defend from a very forward position. Good knock back, easy to jump down and flank, hiding spot to the side. I always enjoy defending that position.



  • When it comes to slopes (like in frigid), I think the uphill side has the advantage (better lookdowns, further reach given your arms are closer than the rest of your body, can get away quickly by jumping then parrying) although people with other playstyles may disagree. With stairs though I think the people at the top do quite alright (stay away from edge to hide from archers below, can be knockbacked along flat ground, many stairs such as in ruins function as one-way chokes).

    With the combat mechanics, flat ground in favourable but having the ground in a map can be useful if you make it useful.
    Examples:
    Quicker routes along the highground (like in the front buildings in ruins)
    Places to drop down behind enemy troops (ruins again)
    More protection for the archers from the melee besides just a better view(moor).

    I think though that you are restricted yourself to chivalry’s fighting mechanics. Fun maps I think should offer multiple ways to do something e.g:
    Flanks (different but longer routes to attack someone):
    Along the river from market to burn granary in Battleground.
    Under the wall and up the enemy’s stairs in Argon’s Wall.
    Behind the safehouse to C on Darkforest.
    Using the defenders stairs on Belmez, using the tower stairs on Belmez then just using the ladders anyway as the tower seems to always be guarded more. Just all of that stage on Belmez.

    Stealthier options (require avoiding being seen, usually to do objective or surprise attack):
    Through the caves in Hillside.
    Hiding in bushes to get to the torches in Battlegrounds.
    Dropping down to use the ram in Kings Garden.
    Pushing the cart without being seen on Belmez.
    Underneath and behind buildings in Ruins to get archers in TD/LTS or make a grab at the flag.

    Siege weapons (more than just having them, what you can use them for):
    Killing defenders of right flag point on Belmez.
    Destroying A and B on Darkforest.
    Using the 2nd objective cats in the 1st objective on Coldfront (easier to see where the archers are from behind them on the hill)

    I haven’t listed everything I could here such as choosing to rush with your king in Belmez vs. protecting him or the inclusion of crates you can climb between between slave levels on Citadel or up to the tent on Drunken bazaar. You could probably come up with a lot more example and categories as wel. But the point is that just because flat and uncluttered terrain is favoured doesn’t mean there isn’t something to having interesting and fun level design and objectives on maps. All that said, restricting player choice at points can improve a map too, such as in the cistern in darkforest.

    TLDR: Make good maps



  • flat ground is the best because it doesn’t create any bizarre inconsistencies in knockback

    unfortunately in chiv being on the lower ground is an advantage because of having faster overheads



  • @Phisi

    I agree with your assessment of stealth options and siege weapons. But both of those need to be counterable.
    eg. An attentive person should be able to see the guy sneaking around the side.
    eg. a powerful siege weapon should be flankable for melee or/and archers.

    I don’t really like the idea of a stealthy path in which someone can pop up right behind your lines and there was no way to see it coming other than standing and waiting for a potential enemy.

    Same with siege weapons. If its in a strong position and it cant be flanked or arched, it becomes more frustrating than fun.
    I enjoy the belmez wall defense, but the siege weapons on that objective are horribly annoying. You can’t see the catapults coming when on defense. The only flank, as defenders, is the far left in the swamp. You can also try to lob arrows out that far, but its a long shot at best(pun intended). Also, destroying the siege weapons after an epic flank only lasts about 3s so its a complete waste of effort, they can just continue using them on the next spawn easily.

    I also like your assessment of higher ground, using it for paths to drop behind the enemy and as natural archer cover.

    This is not a discussion of flanks however, I mostly want to discuss small scale situations you encounter on the battlefield, and what makes them dynamic and interesting. Flanks are more of a large scale design.

    @Zombojoe
    The high ground has the advantage of greater knock back. But you are right, lower is generally better.

    Some other things I think could be interesting:
    Visual impedement == the wheat fields in battlegrounds. You can see, but not well. Makes for very fun and cautious scenarios. Also it doubles as a natural hazard when it catches on fire.

    Visual impedement == hanging ferns like in courtyard duel map. They can be swung through but they block the vision above the waist, enforcing you to play mor cautiously in those areas and use sneak attacks.

    Audio impedement == fighting next to a big waterfall that makes it harder to hear enemy approach etc…



  • @FartTender:

    Visual impedement == the wheat fields in battlegrounds. You can see, but not well. Makes for very fun and cautious scenarios. Also it doubles as a natural hazard when it catches on fire.

    I’ve tried visual impedement in my map a while back and it was not received well.



  • @Rickvs

    I think the issue is when you FORCE people to fight in an area with visual impedement. I like the way its implemented in battlegrounds, you can use it as a shortcut but there is no reason you need to go through it.

    Im curious exactly what did you use in your map?



  • @FartTender:

    Im curious exactly what did you use in your map?

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=382033840

    The first version had much taller grass the closer you’d get to the center of the map.
    It was generally disliked by testers because it made actual fighting outside of sneak attacks nearly impossible. Faster weapons weren’t readable as they’d constantly clip through the foliage.



  • Yeah. Seems cool but I can see why people wouldn’t like it.


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