Reverse overhead



  • This is going to be about as welcome as a fart in spacesuit seeing how many top level players like to use this trick, but I’m going to say it: the reverse overhead is dumb.

    You all know how it works and how effective it is so there’s no need to explain, but I find it overpowered, gimmicky and broken. It undermines a number of key mechanics, and looks pretty stupid to boot.

    But you can’t really remove it, it exists because of this game’s (quite superb) hit detection and if you start messing with that you’ll break a number of other things. So I suggest a tweak to make it slightly harder to pull off:
    **
    Add collision to the floor. Lean back too far and you’ll snag your weapon in the dirt.**

    This’d make the move more skilful, as you’d have to find that sweet spot without overshooting your vertical, and you’d have to compensate for the weapon you’re using rather than applying the same technique blindly across classes and loadouts.

    It’d also have a proportionally nerfing effect on the longer weapons which currently benefit most from the technique.

    Honestly I don’t know why this hasn’t been in the game from day one. You have to watch your surroundings for all other swings to make sure you don’t clang into a wall or ceiling; look down too far and you’ll hit the floor; but somehow crouching down and pulling your sword from the earth like a low rent King Arthur has been encouraged.

    Make it end. It’s weird. And silly.



  • Already happens with a Zweihander or Greatsword from time to time.
    The collision is there but obviously doesn’t do jack shit most of the time.

    Besides, reverse OH’s aren’t that annoying until you throw delays and feints into the mix. Then you’re just an A-hole.
    Nobody will ever convince me that human beings can both react in time for a near-instant reverse AND know when to wait before they parry because it’s a delayed drag.



  • It’s risky though. Fundamentally not that much different to a lookdown overhead.

    “Add collision to the floor”.

    wut?

    The floor has collision. That’s what you stand on. Look at the ground and stab it. Holy shit your weapon bounces off the floor.

    In a reverse overhead the weapon doesn’t touch the floor. Reverse overheads don’t work on stairs or when crouching as yes the weapin does actual go hit the ground and stops. But in your average reverse OH the weapon is no where near the ground in release.



  • I think ROH are fine balancewise but they just look stupid. Remove early damage tracers in release so they don’t affect any other drags and only ROH.



  • Imo they are broken and break balance even further. In vanilla game its pretty bullshit because, for example, a maul knight can spin that shit no problemo 24/7 and still score hits due no flinch in release. Its cheap, its EASY to do and breaks the game to the point you can’t take it seriously imo.

    Just look at fake out backswings, backswing feiting etc. I mean the fake out backswings are SO stupid and there is so much gamble involved that when I’m doing it, I don’t even know if it will be a fake-out or a real b0ckswings. So, if there is a gamble in doing this attack, imagine parrying it.

    In my opinion, being able to parry your opponents windup could solve backswings problem. But on the other side, if you can parry the windup, close range stab feints could be parried aswell which is broken. So lets just wait for Slasher shall we?



  • @SOC:

    Remove early damage tracers in release so they don’t affect any other drags and only ROH.

    That’s what I suggested, it might screw up slashes a bit, but it’d balance stabfeints, as they wouldn’t hit instantly as release starts, it would also prevent a majority of backswings.



  • And any otter accelerated strike.

    Isn’t really different than making windup longer. Except it just looks wrong.



  • @lemonater47:

    And any otter accelerated strike.

    Isn’t really different than making windup longer. Except it just looks wrong.

    There is a difference, making the windup longer will still make the release start where it always starts. It wouldn’t do anything against accelerated strikes, be they otter or bever. Sure you wouldn’t be able to handlehit with zwei as soon as windup starts, but that’s retarded either way. and to actually prevent something like that you could shorten the windup with as much time as you add to the release before the tracers starts to draw.



  • This post is deleted!


  • DW did deal with it nicely, but I don’t think we’re going to see DW swing tracers in MW any time soon.

    And I deal with it fine, my problem isn’t that it kills me (it doesn’t) it’s that it looks crap and is at best a gimmick move. You didn’t address the change I suggested either, why would it be bad for swings that look like they hit the dirt to hit the dirt?



  • DW didn’t deal with it nicely at all, DW is garbage because of the bad tracers it uses and the lack of proper drags. DW is all about missing 90% of the time to side steps and always side stepping your enemy since you can’t follow them with the limited drags, not to mention when you finally hit someone it only deals 10% of the damage because of the bad tracers. Plus kicks are even less reliable, no, DW is garbage and isn’t the answer.

    Removing damage tracers in early release is.



  • This reverse over head rubbish should not be in the game. It was a bug in the first place and now
    simply used to get a cheap shot outside the norms. I actually was trying and succeeded in pulling
    off the swing reverse against bots yesterday offline. which is my invention. The detailed workings
    of being successful in this technique I will never reveal though.

    Although I have perfected this unheard of technique/bug, Just like that reverse overhead
    I never use them in pub games or online. Any things like this should be simply removed
    from Chivalry code as the bug is always was and not promoted
    as some advanced combat style that was pre planned bs



  • @SOC:

    Removing damage tracers in early release is.

    I’ve seen people putting this idea forward as a solution but I will admit I am slightly puzzled. Is this not functionally equivalent to just increasing the windup? (with a few minor differences, e.g. being inside the release window and not being flinchable).

    Doesn’t seem like an actual fix to me.



  • @dudeface:

    I’ve seen people putting this idea forward as a solution but I will admit I am slightly puzzled. Is this not functionally equivalent to just increasing the windup? (with a few minor differences, e.g. being inside the release window and not being flinchable).

    Doesn’t seem like an actual fix to me.

    uh no, the tracers start drawing as the release begins, if the first few ms of the release animation/tracer is to disappear there won’t be any way to hit someone behind you. As to where a longer windup would just increase the windup animation resulting in the swing still having the same tracers behind. For example, maul has a long windup and you can still backswing with it. But if the release didn’t draw damage tracers for the first 10-15% of the release time both lookdown handle hits and reverse overheads would be either completely gone or take slightly longer to hit so they’d be far easier to react to.



  • Oh ok that makes sense. I thinking timing but this is about position.



  • @daniel10x:

    the only people still complaining about backswings are scrubs who cant do them or scrubs who cant deal with them

    backswings have good points and bad points, and its not hard to block a backswing when their ENTIRE body pirouttes. Maybe you struggle blocking backswings because you are playing on 30 tick public servers, but they are definitely blockable and even better you can just run away from them, leaving them to miss and lose stamina.

    Backswings are a blind shot which also requires good accuracy (unless you LMB) and have reduced range, the only arguement i will agree with is that vanilla backswings that miss and then just come around full 360 (after you struck them) for a big smack bang maul trade in ur face is the retarded mechanic, TBS removing fhf like 3 years into teh game? wat?

    Chances are that anybody rekking you with backswings is probably going to rek you without them, but you just blame the mechanic rather than understanding the game in depth

    That said, DW dealt with backswings pretty effectively, dosen’t mean they aren’t un-abusable though

    i’m complaining about backswings and i very rarely get hit by them. i can perform them but i electively choose not to

    i really have no idea why people pretend backswinging in pubs is even remotely difficult. put 3rd person toggle on side mouse button bind/toggle into third/lean back/overhead/spin/toggle back into first.

    even in pure first person it’s not that difficult. you pretending that the mechanic is so skill based is, quite frankly, a laughable joke.

    anyways. i complain about it because it looks dumb as fug. it’s just as immersion breaking as a lean-back parry (although not nearly as frustrating.) and, it’s like a severe illness that the mentally crippled elite such as yourself have caused to trickle down into the lower ranks. i’m sick of watching lvl 20s backswinging lvl 5s in pubs 24/7. it’s the 360 noscope of this game, except way easier to pull off.

    fix it with tracers. or, hey, give weapons no damage value while in backswing if that’s possible. pretty simple.



  • I actually tried my swing reverse technique , ( not overhead reverse matrix ) just today as a map ended.
    After Agatha won the defend the king map with barely any hits scored on our king. As the King came
    towards me I figured he was going to start hitting me, As my swing reverse technique concluded its
    motion the kings head was cut clean off.? Even I was surprised at how effective this unheard or seen
    move was on the approaching king. Bear in mind I used just a sword of war the least damaging 2h sword.



  • If TB started faffing around with weapon collisions on the ground, all i can say is that it’s not going to end well

    Backswings are harder to do than normal attacks, so yea it’s a “skill-based” mechanic

    Loin are you a troll?



  • @daniel10x:

    If TB started faffing around with weapon collisions on the ground, all i can say is that it’s not going to end well

    Backswings are harder to do than normal attacks, so yea it’s a “skill-based” mechanic

    Loin are you a troll?

    blah i don’t know why i even responded after your first post, but i’ve learned my lesson now.



  • I dont even know why you made this post either mate, just keep playing the game and you’ll slowly become better and better, while doing so you can learn how to deal with set mechanics rather than make forum posts on what you think might be a good idea to remove them


Log in to reply