Lets have a discussion on Ping/Lag



  • Some Background info before I start:

    So I finally made an account on this forum to discuss just one topic. This one problem I’ve had with the game for quite some time now. I had originally planned to put this into “Balance” sub-form but felt it’s more of a general problem.
    I’ve logged around 550-600 overall hours and put them for the sole purpose of 1v1 dueling usually on Old Duel servers or DE moor and UK moor and such. It’s my favourite game-mode. After a lot of practice

    First of all. I mean no disrespect to any high-ish or high ping players but I’m purely stating my opinion. I’d like to keep this topic toxic-free and just keep it as an open discussion, I’d like you to read my post fully to have a grasp of what I’m trying to say.

    My argument against Ping/Lag
    Okay, now thats out of the way. I don’t fully understand how Ping links to the players overall connection to the game. But I’ve noticed that players generally within 68-75+ usually beat me in duels. Now obviously there is a lot of factors involved but one that’s become very common in my eyes and that is their weapon animation or tracers**
    not** syncing up correctly with how they swing.
    Now I’m aware of what instant windup attacks are, I’m aware of drags, accels. And through repeated playing I have no issue with any of them. However when a player with like I said above “68-75+ ping” comes along. It seems that their accels and instant windups are hitting me way too early. Everytime it happens I’m always struck with a “Oh shit” surprise because I know these attacks are hitting me much faster than usual. Seems everytime I notice that “Oh shit” moment. The player has, as I said, that sort of ping. However 68 ping being less of a problem.

    But it seems when I call players out on this they seem to have some sort of bland response. The answer is always the same “My ping is fine and everything looks fine on my screen”. You see. That’s the problem. It may look fine on your screen. But on my screen, your attack animations are not matching up at all and I only have this problem with higher player players and coincidentally enough, these players also seem to favor the Messer as their choice of weapon which makes dealing with their attacks even that much harder.

    What do you guys think. Have you noticed any problems regarding higher ping players? Do you feel there is some underlying issue or do you disagree?

    Let’s discuss. :indecisiveness:



  • I play with a ping of 56-68 usually, with occasional 80+ ping on some servers. When my ping is above 80 I might as well not play as I have to parry attacks before the windup is close to being over. With a ping of 68 I can read a majority of the feints and drags from anyone as long as their ping is not above 80, then it gets really wonky, my pals with lower ping can deal with most people who has less than 90-100 ping.
    Everything sure isn’t fine for me, suddenly I can get someone doing a 2 frame riposte, or someones weapon not even being close to my character and I still get hit. Some people can even randomly hit during windup instead of release, but that’s ost likely cause they overclock or something.

    Considering this game is client sided and not server sided, a ping above 50 isn’t good at all, which is why we really need different regions in Europe, I don’t want to play with russians who have 90-120 ping. Italians, Greeks and other people close to the mediterranean sea have horrible ping as well and should have their own servers. Sadly all official servers are located in UK, DE, and NL which are basically right next to eachother.



  • @Xylvion:

    I play with a ping of 56-68 usually, with occasional 80+ ping on some servers. When my ping is above 80 I might as well not play as I have to parry attacks before the windup is close to being over. With a ping of 68 I can read a majority of the feints and drags from anyone as long as their ping is not above 80, then it gets really wonky, my pals with lower ping can deal with most people who has less than 90-100 ping.
    **Everything sure isn’t fine for me, suddenly I can get someone doing a 2 frame riposte, or someones weapon not even being close to my character and I still get hit. Some people can even randomly hit during windup instead of release, but that’s ost likely cause they overclock or something.
    **
    Considering this game is client sided and not server sided, a ping above 50 isn’t good at all, which is why we really need different regions in Europe, I don’t want to play with russians who have 90-120 ping. Italians, Greeks and other people close to the mediterranean sea have horrible ping as well and should have their own servers. Sadly all official servers are located in UK, DE, and NL which are basically right next to eachother.

    Yeah I agree. A lot of the issues you listed there are generally what I see from higher ping players actually. Generally my ping is around 20-40 but when faced with players with 70 ping ( espiecially messer users who know how to instant windup ) its a nightmare.

    I can deal with a lot of high ping players actually. But when a player with high ping thats used to their own connection comes along its difficult to deal with.



  • I find that as long as there’s not a 100+ ping disparity between two opponents, they can fight without there being too many issues as long as it’s not a very high-level duel. If you’ve got less than 80 ping, you should be fine.

    That’s MY experience, anyway.



  • When I fight a messer knight with 70+ ping, his b0ckswings are even more bullshit. You see that fuckery coming so you are ready to parry early, you press S like a bitch and it still fucking hits you. Messer is easy mode beyond belief, has the most annoying backswing in the whole game.

    Also this:
    http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/23530-Don-t-you-stand-there-help-me!



  • @Vanguard:

    When I fight a messer knight with 70+ ping, his b0ckswings are even more bullshit. You see that fuckery coming so you are ready to parry early, you press S like a bitch and it still fucking hits you. Messer is easy mode beyond belief, has the most annoying backswing in the whole game.

    Also this:
    http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/23530-Don-t-you-stand-there-help-me!

    Yeah man I know that feeling. It does get quite frustrating to play against 70 ping bockswing messers. That’s what my post was mainly trying to argue against.



  • This games timing changes every 20 points in ping. It really start to have negative effects at about a 60 differential between two players. I normally play on my server and I have 20 ping, solid and stable. When I play against someone with 80 ping, they are lagging to me and the effects are more ghost swings, hits out of range and the like. It is the same as someone playing at 80 ping playing against a player with 120 ping.

    When I play on servers where my ping is like 80, my timing and accuracy radically drops but I still get hits. The same is true on that rare occasion where I will hop on a server around 100 ping.

    In most FPS ping gaps are not as effected. This has to do with the fact that most games use a bullet trace system that draws a straight line from your weapon. If that line intersects a player at any range it registers as a hit. pretty simple calculations. Where these games hit lag is with weapons rate of fire and ping so the more bullets are being fired the more calculations the server has to confirm when another person has a higher ping. This is where tickrate of the server helps in improving and syncing up accuracy players positions vs bullet tracers.

    Chivalry is much more complex than drawing a straight line from weapon to player model. The complexity is caused by several main reasons. One is the weapon swing trace drawing many lines and is manipulated by the players in real time. So no two swings are the same or have the same swing pattern unlike a bullet trace that is a single line from point A to point B.

    The torso/duck system along with the Parry window also complicates and adds more calculations the server has to perform to verify and register a hit. The parry window is a timed invisible shield that activates and deactivates that is timed with the parry animation that only covers about 60% of the frontal view.

    To see these effects in real time, create a game with a bot and type aoc_drawtracer 1 This will show you your swing traces. As you can see there a 3 layers of lines along with perpendicular lines. These lines can be manipulated in real time and all require calculations in X,Y,X axis and the enemies player model has to be inside those lines to register a hit. This is far more complicated than a single straight bullet trace going across the map in most all FPS games.

    To see the parry window in action, type: showcollisions and you will see a white floating box that will activate when the parry is pressed and deactivated when the timer is done. There are far more calculations in this game by 2 players in Chiv than any other FPS game on a full server.

    Ranged weapons also have a unique arching trajectory unlike other FPS games that falls off at certain ranges and speeds. AKA why a aim bot will not really work in Chiv.

    In summary, when you take into consideration of all the calculations the server has to make in a single swing/parry between just two players ping plays a huge factor when calculating actual positions of player models and player weapons as well as the parry window and if any of them intersect. The larger the gap between two players the more negative effects is has on game play.

    On another note if you pay attention to ping as much as I have, you may also notice that ping is different than a players internet stability. So what you may see is that someone has decent ping but as soon as they are close and start attacking, their ping will increase sometimes even double while attacking then return to a normal ping when they stop attacking. This is usually a sign of unstable internet or they have a crappy computer as hardware speeds are related to ping as well but that is a much deeper discussion having to to with network card/processing packets/vid card rendering and on and on.



  • Meh, I’ve met people with 170 ping who never even desynced or teleported around, meanwhile some people with 20 ping do.



  • @Xylvion:

    Meh, I’ve met people with 170 ping who never even desynced or teleported around, meanwhile some people with 20 ping do.

    those 20 ping players must be really good



  • @Xylvion:

    Meh, I’ve met people with 170 ping who never even desynced or teleported around, meanwhile some people with 20 ping do.

    Might be ping haxes though. There are programs which make you spam packets so your ping is shown as < 20 but in reality it’s > 100.



  • I used to play on wi-fi up until a couple weeks ago, now I play on a direct connection and it’s made me even more MLG at Chivalry: Medieval Warfare…if you can even imagine such a thing.



  • @Retsnom:

    This games timing changes every 20 points in ping. It really start to have negative effects at about a 60 differential between two players. I normally play on my server and I have 20 ping, solid and stable. When I play against someone with 80 ping, they are lagging to me and the effects are more ghost swings, hits out of range and the like. It is the same as someone playing at 80 ping playing against a player with 120 ping.

    When I play on servers where my ping is like 80, my timing and accuracy radically drops but I still get hits. The same is true on that rare occasion where I will hop on a server around 100 ping.

    **In most FPS ping gaps are not as effected. This has to do with the fact that most games use a bullet trace system that draws a straight line from your weapon. If that line intersects a player at any range it registers as a hit. pretty simple calculations. Where these games hit lag is with weapons rate of fire and ping so the more bullets are being fired the more calculations the server has to confirm when another person has a higher ping. This is where tickrate of the server helps in improving and syncing up accuracy players positions vs bullet tracers.

    Chivalry is much more complex than drawing a straight line from weapon to player model. The complexity is caused by several main reasons. One is the weapon swing trace drawing many lines and is manipulated by the players in real time. So no two swings are the same or have the same swing pattern unlike a bullet trace that is a single line from point A to point B.

    The torso/duck system along with the Parry window also complicates and adds more calculations the server has to perform to verify and register a hit. The parry window is a timed invisible shield that activates and deactivates that is timed with the parry animation that only covers about 60% of the frontal view.**

    To see these effects in real time, create a game with a bot and type aoc_drawtracer 1 This will show you your swing traces. As you can see there a 3 layers of lines along with perpendicular lines. These lines can be manipulated in real time and all require calculations in X,Y,X axis and the enemies player model has to be inside those lines to register a hit. This is far more complicated than a single straight bullet trace going across the map in most all FPS games.

    To see the parry window in action, type: showcollisions and you will see a white floating box that will activate when the parry is pressed and deactivated when the timer is done. There are far more calculations in this game by 2 players in Chiv than any other FPS game on a full server.

    Ranged weapons also have a unique arching trajectory unlike other FPS games that falls off at certain ranges and speeds. AKA why a aim bot will not really work in Chiv.

    In summary, when you take into consideration of all the calculations the server has to make in a single swing/parry between just two players ping plays a huge factor when calculating actual positions of player models and player weapons as well as the parry window and if any of them intersect. The larger the gap between two players the more negative effects is has on game play.

    On another note if you pay attention to ping as much as I have, you may also notice that ping is different than a players internet stability. So what you may see is that someone has decent ping but as soon as they are close and start attacking, their ping will increase sometimes even double while attacking then return to a normal ping when they stop attacking. This is usually a sign of unstable internet or they have a crappy computer as hardware speeds are related to ping as well but that is a much deeper discussion having to to with network card/processing packets/vid card rendering and on and on.

    Regarding your first point I made bold
    Thanks for the indepth post about the calculations and how it differs from a generic fps. And as you say the larger the gap between the two players the more negative effects it has on gameplay. That was an interesting read and made me even more aware of how complex Chivalry is.

    Regarding the second point
    Yes I have actually noticed this. It’s actually quite frustrating mid duel I notice the person is lagging, I quickly open tab to get a look at their ping and its like say 78-80. Then when I call it out when the duel is over it even comes down to like 68 or 70 and they say that their ping is fine and that they don’t have 80 ping.



  • @INerevar:

    Might be ping haxes though. There are programs which make you spam packets so your ping is shown as < 20 but in reality it’s > 100.

    Obviously, People who think that they’ll lag less because their ping via a proxy is lower are either retarded or mentally challenged. They just add another layer of datatransfer.



  • If it’s not 40 ping it’s not serious. It didn’t used to be this bad, either. I remember 90 ping being the absolute limit but now it really is 40. If someone is over 40 then they become harder to deal with, too. The game is just too inconsistent when it isn’t 40 ping.


  • Mod

    For some reason we only have servers for chivalry on the east coast of Australia and only west coast ones for deadliest warrior. So I have to deal with 80-120 ping. I adapted my play style to avoid parrying as much as possible because swings do not match up with the animations. Plus some people have started stab feinting sword of wars and everything. I have to parry far earlier than the animation. It’s a pain, but I’ll live.



  • @INerevar:

    Might be ping haxes though. There are programs which make you spam packets so your ping is shown as < 20 but in reality it’s > 100.

    realy .thats lame. no vac on that i supose



  • anyway i can adapt oponent ping easily but its annoying if you dont see that comming



  • my ping is back to 50 again, seems like they fixed the tick rate. Hopefully a lot of other ping issues will be resolved with it (for pings below 100).



  • @Xylvion:

    my ping is back to 50 again, seems like they fixed the tick rate. Hopefully a lot of other ping issues will be resolved with it (for pings below 100).

    Yeah this is really on the server admin to make sure they adjust the server’s tick rate. Every update I have to confirm and change it to 60 on my server. But that is just me and my server host.


  • Mod

    @Xylvion:

    my ping is back to 50 again, seems like they fixed the tick rate. Hopefully a lot of other ping issues will be resolved with it (for pings below 100).

    I hope they looked into Australian servers too


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