Archers need to be more squishy



  • Personally I don’t think archers are OP, but I think I share the opinion with a lot of people that they do need some nerfing in some areas.

    My main issue is that there are a lot of melee weapons that should kill archers with an OH, even a slash, but don’t. Currently I’ve mainly been playing vanguard (with zweihander or spear), and every time I get into close quarters with an archer I feel like I’m at a disadvantage unless I switch to shortsword, which really shouldn’t be the case. From my experience its 3 stabs to kill an archer with a shortsword, and 3 stabs to kill a vanguard, that’s assuming they haven’t shot me, pair this with their better footwork and I’ve totally lost the advantage.

    Currently the weapons that I’m aware can 1 hit kill an archer are:
    Zweihander OH, greatsword OH, doubleaxe OH, longsword OH, Messer OH - slash, Bardiche OH, Polehammer OH

    Halberd OH, bearded axe OH, poleaxe OH and grandmace OH spring to mind as weapons that should be added to this list.

    If more weapons had the ability to 1 hit kill an archer I believe they would be less bold in combat, because currently it seems as soon as I start an attack most archers are willing to trade blows with their quick stab, usually resulting in cancelling my attack. Archers should be hesitant to get into melee yet I’ve literally seen archers dedicated to melee, in fact its something I used to do.

    Oh and the range of vanguard weapons doesn’t seem to count for much in a 1v1 duel as from what I’ve seen the archers foot speed along with the lunge they do allows them to close the distance surprisingly quickly, I mean I could maybe try a kick, but yeah……they aren’t the most reliable thing.

    That’s all I’ve got to say on melee that I can think of, but while I’m discussing archers there are a few more points I’d like to make.

    -The damage of most of their ranged weapons need a nerf, a lot of people argue that this would make the archer useless at getting kills, and therefore boring to play, which tbh just isn’t true. Targeting enemies with low HP is all you need to do, this is exactly what I do when using a spear I use my reach to strike the enemies backing away from a fight or hanging around at the back of a fight, and I regularly get high scores/ kills. They very fact that as an archer you expect to be able to one shot an maa, knight, vanguard just plain isn’t right in a game based around melee combat.

    -Add sway to moving archers. I don’t know why this wasn’t added from the start, moving should effect your ability to be accurate, most modern FPS’s have this feature. It would mean you wont get strafing archers and that when they want to fire accurately they have to risk standing still and being a target for other archers, it would also give more reasons to use the sling if you want to be a mobile archer. Countless times I’ve had crossbowmen burst around corners like a SWAT team and insta kill me with a head shot. Adding sway would also add a greater degree of skill required to pull of certain shots, so therefor add a higher skill ceiling.
    **

    • Make archers more vulnerable to other archers ranged weapons**. Currently I feel the best way to counter an archer, or well just any other class is to go archer (usually Heavy crossbow). If you made archers a priority target for other archers, by making them more easier to one hit kill a grater variety of ranged weapons, then not only are you allowing archers to still achieve the high kills/ scores that they want, but you also allow them to play a greater role in helping their team. Oh and there would be a lot less friendly fire, as they aren’t firing into melee constantly.

    -More secondaries for knights/ vanguard. This may not be a popular idea, but personally I’d love to use a shortsword as a knight and a broadsword as a vanguard.

    There is probably a lot more to say as I’ve typed this in a rush, but these are the main issues I find with the archer class, and this is from someone who used to main archer. I would like to hear what you guys think regarding the points I’ve made, and hopefully we can get a good discussion going on…which TBS might pay attention to and…yeah ok I have no hopes of that happening.



  • You don’t think Archers are op op ? Lets have a true Archer song played at the blue oyster bar.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08 Catchy he is saying Archoman.
    The only change they need is only being able to collect a bow and arrow or crossbow or just a knife
    at the ammo box. You see if An archer is Equipped with a knife that all he has. My latest idea tbh.
    Or if carrying a ranged weapon that is all he has with ammo needed at the ammo boxes during the game.

    This would be quite ideal. Archers either have ranged weapons or just a knife. Ammo box is were they get them
    or swop them. Very good original idea imo.



  • @Roro:

    -The damage of most of their ranged weapons need a nerf, a lot of people argue that this would make the archer useless at getting kills, and therefore boring to play, which tbh just isn’t true. Targeting enemies with low HP is all you need to do, this is exactly what I do when using a spear I use my reach to strike the enemies backing away from a fight or hanging around at the back of a fight, and I regularly get high scores/ kills. They very fact that as an archer you expect to be able to one shot an maa, knight, vanguard just plain isn’t right in a game based around melee combat.

    Yes, archers with high damage output carry the goddamn melee fights, while with low damage output but flinching abilities they support melee. I agree with archers dealing more damage to archers though.



  • @loin:

    You don’t think Archers are op op ? Lets have a true Archer song played at the blue oyster bar.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08 Catchy he is saying Archoman.
    The only change they need is only being able to collect a bow and arrow or crossbow or just a knife
    at the ammo box. You see if An archer is Equipped with a knife that all he has. My latest idea tbh.
    Or if carrying a ranged weapon that is all he has with ammo needed at the ammo boxes during the game.

    This would be quite ideal. Archers either have ranged weapons or just a knife. Ammo box is were they get them
    or swop them. Very good original idea imo.

    Or just bring back the 1 second delay when switching from bow to sword, that was perfect.



  • @Hammertime:

    Or just bring back the 1 second delay when switching from bow to sword, that was perfect.

    You can still combo from weapon switch. basically if you get hit, you can switch to your secondary and flinch the dude that just hit you, with any class.



  • Oooh. I want to help. Make it so they feint if you battlecry in their line of sight. Or make it so the “F” key is enough to 1HKO punch through that insane archer health pool. Marshmallow tipped arrows Anyone?



  • More weapons should one shot MaAs and archers with overheads and slashes. Nothing should 1 shot a knight except ballista and catapult. No 2h should take more than 3 hits to kill a knight (unless all 3 are slashes) and be balanced accordingly. Broad sword should deal more damage for its less speed. Norse should be slower as well. Maul should have wind up reverted. Short sword and thrusting dagger should be weaker and slower. MaAs should have foot speed and acceleration reverted. Feints/combo feints should cost less stamina. Heavy kicks/shield bashes should be .1 or 0.05 faster. MaAs should not be able to dodge out of recovery. Archers should have slightly less foot speed. All ranged archer weapons should be considerably nerfed. All archer melee weapons should deal considerably less damage.



  • No class should be reduced to being a mild inconvenience however.



  • @lemonater47:

    No class should be reduced to being a mild inconvenience however.

    The old ways are creeping back tbh, You used to just troll now you do it in blue. My idea is the best ever
    for Archers , it really is simple, The just have one weapon equipped. Either the melee butter knifes or
    Archers ranged weapons, With ammo or Weapons only changeable at the ammo boxes. This could mean
    in battle they can be caught without the advantages of having two op systems of combat.



  • Or just bring back the 1 second delay when switching from bow to sword, that was perfect.

    This is something I forgot to mention so thanks for bringing it up, but yeah currently as it is you can switch from ranged to melee too quickly. Approaching an archer shield up only to get shot in the face as you go for a swing, and then getting stabbed a split second later highlights this issue, and it happens all too often. Archers should be punished for allowing an enemy to get that close, much like you are punished for attacking out of distance and missing an attack.

    No class should be reduced to being a mild inconvenience however.

    I don’t think any of these changes will reduce a good archer to a mild inconvenience, it will for bad archers though and that’s the point it adds the skill difference you see in the melee orientated classes. Currently a bad Maa/ vanguard/ knight is a free kill, a bad archer is an inconvenience at the very least.

    More weapons should one shot MaAs and archers with overheads and slashes.

    I have weird and probably unpopular opinions regarding Maa’s ha, mostly as a result of personal preference than actual balance. I’d prefer an Maa to take the role of a standard foot soldier with more HP but no dodge ability, and access to the kite and tower shield. It would be the opposite to the vanguard in the way that the vanguard uses long hard hitting weapons, the Maa would use shorter one handed weapons.

    Currently the HP of an Maa feels hardly different to that of an archer, yet they are expected to help out in melee fights, filled with friendly M1 spamming vanguards. The alternative is that they hunt down archers, but considering their low HP that isn’t particularly a good idea either, they essentially just thrive on 1v1’s.

    I don’t see why the Maa even need dodge IMHO the footspeed of the Maa is enough to make the class special, same goes for a lot of class abilities tbh, the vanguard charge is so insanely buggy/ unreliable that I barely bother using it. In fact the only time I really see it used is by new players who sprint into melee and accidentally charge because stupidly by default the charge attack is bound to mouse 1.

    Marshmallow tipped arrows Anyone?

    Only if you can fire them into teammates mouths to replenish their HP, archer healers is the way forward.



  • Considering that Archers in vanilla can 1 shot most classes and 2 shot most classes at range it only is fair if more weapons 1 shot them with both stab and overhead for sure. But I have posted about this a billion times. ok or at least a few hundred



  • @Retsnom:

    Considering that Archers in vanilla can 1 shot most classes and 2 shot most classes at range it only is fair if more weapons 1 shot them with both stab and overhead for sure.

    Precisely, and yeah archers are a common topic for debate, an unheard debate it seems though.

    Also I’d like to add another idea to my original points. In a lot of first person shooters you often have a damage fall off over distance, this could be an interesting feature, as it offers another stat to play with to create a diversity in play style, and a feel of uniqueness to each ranged weapon.

    And while I know games shouldn’t and don’t always have to be realistic, I believe around the time of Agincourt it was noted that 20m was the distance in which the English arrows could penetrate Armour and actually cause harm/kill.



  • Archers are fine… oh wait…



  • @Roro:

    -The damage of most of their ranged weapons need a nerf, a lot of people argue that this would make the archer useless at getting kills, and therefore boring to play, which tbh just isn’t true. Targeting enemies with low HP is all you need to do, this is exactly what I do when using a spear I use my reach to strike the enemies backing away from a fight or hanging around at the back of a fight, and I regularly get high scores/ kills. They very fact that as an archer you expect to be able to one shot an maa, knight, vanguard just plain isn’t right in a game based around melee combat.

    Gotta say some of these weapons are legit. Like crossbows. Historically speaking their armor piercing capabilities were unmatched until the introduction of gunpowder weaponry. They are also easier to use than bows in game–using very little projectile arc, which was also accurate in medieval times (cause conscripted peasants didn’t need years of training with a crossbow like a professional marksman needed with a bow).

    My point being: IK its a game but still some archer OPness can be justified with real life effectiveness. I’ll use an example: being blunt, If a knight player bitches about getting one shotted by a maul, I’m gonna laugh and say a real life maul would smash your skull or at least concuss you in one swing, even if you are wearing a helmet. Take into consideration that the devs must have considered some realism when crafting these class weapons–even if some may be misplaced.

    Possible solution: I know people are hard to hit as it is, but improve and make the hitboxes (or whatever they’re called) much more elaborate. (ie MAA head: Arrows do reg. damage hitting metal helmet but hitting uncovered areas = headshot damage. Or bolts do severe damage to a knight, and arrows do punch damage)



  • @gregcau:

    Archers are fine… oh wait…

    does that picture prove anything at all?



  • @dudeface:

    does that picture prove anything at all?

    Empirical proof that a rank 29 archer can do 4 times better than a rank 61 vanguard.



  • Not sure what your definition of ‘better’ is.



  • I don’t see any thing extra crispy here. Archers ranked much lower get just as good if not better results. As I am bored of
    bullying archers lets pick on Maa’s? make a thread somebody, I get the impression Maa’s are dirty and smelly.



  • @gregcau:

    Empirical proof that a rank 29 archer can do 4 times better than a rank 61 vanguard.

    Better or worse is pretty vague. However, there’s no way rank 29 vanguard or knight ever goes 21-0 on a server like this.



  • how do you guys even know he is not playing with his family account?

    maybe he is in fact lvl 60 with 2000 hours archery.


Log in to reply