Knight class needs balancing



  • First off I’d like to point out that I play all classes pretty equally, as a matter of fact I play knight more than the others but I don’t consider myself to ‘main’ the knight class. I’ve played over 500 matches of duel mode with about a 50-55% win/loss ratio and quite a few of every other game mode except free for all (I know this is pretty inferior to a lot of you but hear me out). I consider myself a fairly competitive person but really cool headed. I’d also like to say that I understand that Knights in medieval Europe were by far the most dominant presence on most battle fields next to English Longbowmen and so forth. I’m not here to argue that part of history, but we call all mostly agree that the armored Knight was definitely a force to recognize.

    With all that said, I want to remind that this is a video game that hasn’t necessarily advertised for historical accuracy or being a swordfighting simulator by any means. This means that you should focus on balancing the mechanics so that it can be better competitively, and so that we stop seeing 75% of each team composition made up of nothing but messer and SOW (sword of war) knights all over the place.

    Contrary to the rest of the post I wanna keep this pretty simple. Everything about the knight is fine except their damage and camera panning speed, the messer in my opinion should only do about 45% of the damage it does now, the SOW should be a little bit slower, and knights should not be able to spin their camera so friggin’ fast to where all they have to do is left click with the occasional block and feint.

    The objective of a knight in this game should be the super heavy defensive guy that doesn’t dish out much at all but can take a couple javelins in the belly before going down. My proposal of course is to greatly reduce their damage output but give a little buff to their defense and stamina, a knight should be able to take a crazy amount of hits to their shield before staggering especially if you nerf the crap out of their damage.

    Class roles in my opinion should be pretty obvious to everyone and I hope we can agree

    Archer: Archer is ridiculously obvious, really good for defending objectives and supporting your melee teammates
    MAA: Versatile class, better for offense and harassment but can be used defensively
    Vanguard: The big hitter, medium armor and speed, and generally the offensive class that can take a few hits before he dies.
    Knight: Battlefield obstacle, putting yourself between allies and the enemy to try and absorb the majority of damage so that others may take the objectives or seal the deal on kills that knights have worn down over time.

    Knights should NOT be a vanguard with double the damage and triple the survivability, they need to be a big tanky class with low damage if you want this game to be balanced.

    This of course is my own opinion as well as that of my friends whom I have gamed with for a long time, we are always hesitant on calling out an ‘OP’ class, weapon or ability in any game that we play. We carefully examine these things and test them amongst each other. No matter what many of you may think, this was not a rage post, this is a sincere post with regards to game balance to try and improve the game.

    p.s. I understand that limiting camera panning speed for the knights when attacking might be pretty difficult but should definitely be seriously considered.

    And I’m sorry to the countless messer knight-main players that will be reading this, but please acknowledge and consider that your class needs a little work around the edges

    Thank you to whomever reads this, and thank you torn banner for this extremely fun game. I love this game, and that means that I care enough about this game to take the time to write out this post hopefully for you to consider.



  • A well thought out post by a complete crayon eating plebbypeonpeasant tbh. You actually believe Knights
    with sow are op? Of all the swords to bring in to question , why don’t you question the logic behind vans?
    Much faster swords, effortless spam longer ranged swords, infact better swords then Knights for some
    stupid reason. TB has already butchered the Knight class since day of release for some unknown reason.
    A lot of factors need to be looked at by esp the fov a player is using plus 3p or 1p. These factors are game
    changing events, by unbalancing the playing field. The only thing that needs a little work is your moronic
    tunnel view. With what Knights already have to contend with from the other op classes traits its simply
    another flawed post by a troll op.



  • The only reason you see more knights in TO is because Archers are so OP you have to be a knight to be able to stay alive.



  • @loin:

    A well thought out post by a complete crayon eating plebbypeonpeasant tbh. You actually believe Knights
    with sow are op? Of all the swords to bring in to question , why don’t you question the logic behind vans?
    Much faster swords, effortless spam longer ranged swords, infact better swords then Knights for some
    stupid reason. TB has already butchered the Knight class since day of release for some unknown reason.
    A lot of factors need to be looked at by esp the fov a player is using plus 3p or 1p. These factors are game
    changing events, by unbalancing the playing field. The only thing that needs a little work is your moronic
    tunnel view. With what Knights already have to contend with from the other op classes traits its simply
    another flawed post by a troll op.

    I feel like you didn’t even read my whole post and you’re just straight up missing the point. Effortlessly two shotting someone as the most tanky class is ridiculous in any video game of the sort. And don’t be cheeky and bring up modern warfare type games that have actual tanks and cannons.

    You’re way too much of an offensive keyboard warrior for me to take you seriously anyways.



  • @Xylvion:

    The only reason you see more knights in TO is because Archers are so OP you have to be a knight to be able to stay alive.

    Yeah if you run in a linear and predictable path. At least Archer has a skill cap higher than the floor (cough knights)



  • @Tallamy:

    and so that we stop seeing 75% of each team composition made up of nothing but messer and SOW (sword of war) knights all over the place.

    75% is a huge overestimation. Probably around 30% and one reason for it’s popularity is that Knight is the only class which doesn’t get fucked by archers as much and in some cases only option for your melee game to actually be about melee and not avoiding arrows with a little sprinkle of fighting.

    a knight should be able to take a crazy amount of hits to their shield before staggering especially if you nerf the crap out of their damage.

    Sounds very anti-fun, and change for worse, even if you don’t play knight. Unhittable shield turtles everywhere, awesome. The problem is not the class itself, but Messer and Maul being stupid, Longsword Knight is probably the most balanced, not-OP, not-trash loadout there is.



  • First of all I genuinely see what your trying to say about the knight class, and how it can seem to be a class with almost no real drawbacks, as I USED to have a similar opinion, however that really isn’t the case.

    Personally I think its not a good idea to alter the camera panning speed on any class, for multiple reasons. One simple reason however is that you’re just giving further advantage to people with 150 FOV, or third person and making it harder for newcomers using default 90 FOV.

    Also Xylvion has basically pointed out why you see so many knights, its basically due to survivability. Before you even get into a fight archers are going to provide a real risk to your ability to effectively fight and survive melee combat as they are going to wear down your HP. And once you have got into the melee you then have to worry about your teammates damaging your HP, this is all before you have even taken a proper swing at the enemy. Knight and archer are the best options based on their survivability, archer because they avoid the chaos of melee and knights because they can endure the chaos of melee,which tbh is how it should be.

    Another reason you see a lot of knights is because of the large focus of hit trading in combat (which is also why you see a lot of messers, as they are great for this). And this is an issue that’s been around for a long time, so I doubt we will see any resolution to this anytime soon.

    Basically I’d say the knight isn’t OP its just a safe and simple class you can jump into, more specifically new people can jump into.

    Also you’re right this game does need some balancing class wise, but personally I think it needs it from the ground up, which just isn’t going to happen at this late stage in the games life, just hope that there is a Chiv 2 and they have taken in what the community has said.

    And finally I would quite like to see an emphasis on the role of each weapons use based on type, so for example you see a knight and you switch from messer to a mace because the blunt damage is MUCH more effective than the messers cutting damage against armour. This would encourage the use of more weapons, and mean there isn’t just one or two go to weapons for each class. Currently they have a system in place for that but it doesn’t really work in the same way, I mean why would you use a grandmace when you can use a messer.



  • @petergriffin:

    75% is a huge overestimation. Probably around 30% and one reason for it’s popularity is that Knight is the only class which doesn’t get fucked by archers as much and in some cases only option for your melee game to actually be about melee and not avoiding arrows with a little sprinkle of fighting.

    Sounds very anti-fun, and change for worse, even if you don’t play knight. Unhittable shield turtles everywhere, awesome. The problem is not the class itself, but Messer and Maul being stupid, Longsword Knight is probably the most balanced, not-OP, not-trash loadout there is.

    I could agree with all of the above except that in my experience at least I’ve been seeing ridiculous amounts of knights everywhere lol



  • @Roro:

    First of all I genuinely see what your trying to say about the knight class, and how it can seem to be a class with almost no real drawbacks, as I USED to have a similar opinion, however that really isn’t the case.

    Personally I think its not a good idea to alter the camera panning speed on any class, for multiple reasons. One simple reason however is that you’re just giving further advantage to people with 150 FOV, or third person and making it harder for newcomers using default 90 FOV.

    Also Xylvion has basically pointed out why you see so many knights, its basically due to survivability. Before you even get into a fight archers are going to provide a real risk to your ability to effectively fight and survive melee combat as they are going to wear down your HP. And once you have got into the melee you then have to worry about your teammates damaging your HP, this is all before you have even taken a proper swing at the enemy. Knight and archer are the best options based on their survivability, archer because they avoid the chaos of melee and knights because they can endure the chaos of melee,which tbh is how it should be.

    Another reason you see a lot of knights is because of the large focus of hit trading in combat (which is also why you see a lot of messers, as they are great for this). And this is an issue that’s been around for a long time, so I doubt we will see any resolution to this anytime soon.

    Basically I’d say the knight isn’t OP its just a safe and simple class you can jump into, more specifically new people can jump into.

    Also you’re right this game does need some balancing class wise, but personally I think it needs it from the ground up, which just isn’t going to happen at this late stage in the games life, just hope that there is a Chiv 2 and they have taken in what the community has said.

    And finally I would quite like to see an emphasis on the role of each weapons use based on type, so for example you see a knight and you switch from messer to a mace because the blunt damage is MUCH more effective than the messers cutting damage against armour. This would encourage the use of more weapons, and mean there isn’t just one or two go to weapons for each class. Currently they have a system in place for that but it doesn’t really work in the same way, I mean why would you use a grandmace when you can use a messer.

    I agree with you 100%. All in all I’d just like the knights to not be able to do as much damage as they do, to me it just doesn’t seem reasonable. But I do agree with you. I’m still going to continue playing the game, it’s nothing that’s going to steer me away from it but like we’ve said I do hope it gets fixed or improved on in another game. Cheers m8!



  • @Tallamy:

    I feel like you didn’t even read my whole post and you’re just straight up missing the point. Effortlessly two shotting someone as the most tanky class is ridiculous in any video game of the sort. And don’t be cheeky and bring up modern warfare type games that have actual tanks and cannons.

    You’re way too much of an offensive keyboard warrior for me to take you seriously anyways.

    I doubt your even a skilled player of this game, whats your steam name tbh. whining about not being
    able to deal with a knight with a sow but complaining its op. Further down you still manage to say
    they should’t be able to do half the things they do? Your most likely some weak player who was
    simply caught out in battle and put down by a Knight. As for keyboard warrior rubbish I am just
    as upfront and honest in person. The standards of plebbypeonpeasants these days is deeply generic.



  • This post is deleted!


  • Really, Tallamy? I feel that knights are the most balanced class in an unbalanced game, Messer/Maul backswing bullshit aside. Vanguards have absurdly fast 2-handed swords+ knockback+ desyncs on their side, Man-at Arms can just dodge out of any mistake they make, and archers can deal a fuck-ton of damage from afar before closing for lightning-quick 1-hit melee kills.

    Knights, on the other hand, have more health, and that’s it. By no means is this game even close to balanced, but to me knights are the least bullshit-ridden class there is. Even most Messer/ Maul users are pretty easy to beat, once you learn to stop panic-blocking and actually watch your opponent.

    Also, 50 percent wins after 500 matches is nothing to brag about. It’s exactly average, and it doesn’t lend your argument any weight at all.



  • @Tallamy:

    Yeah if you run in a linear and predictable path. At least Archer has a skill cap higher than the floor (cough knights)

    uh… point and click and shoot un-blockable mauls across the map = skill?
    I know how to run, I can dodge arrows as I see them flying at me, although I have to move to the sides, I can’t jump above or crouch underneath because of inconsistencies with projectiles. I also can’t do it when fighting someone, I can parry incoming attacks from 2 people without any problems.
    Archer is the easiest class, high reward, low risk. I would not play knight, ever, if it wasn’t for archers, I prefer playing MAA or vanguard, but I can’t because I take 90+ damage from a single shot. Then I have to either spend 1 minute to heal or try to fight the two guys coming at me without the security of taking one hit and living, while also having the slightly desaturated redish screen and lower sounds (harder to hear attacks or people behind me).



  • @loin:

    I doubt your even a skilled player of this game, whats your steam name tbh. whining about not being
    able to deal with a knight with a sow but complaining its op. Further down you still manage to say
    they should’t be able to do half the things they do? Your most likely some weak player who was
    simply caught out in battle and put down by a Knight. As for keyboard warrior rubbish I am just
    as upfront and honest in person. The standards of plebbypeonpeasants these days is deeply generic.

    UWOTM8 1v1 m3 1n m00r m8 ill spark u rite in tha grill m8 wiff a sling u dun even kno wuts comin m8



  • @quackquackquack:

    Really, Tallamy? I feel that knights are the most balanced class in an unbalanced game, Messer/Maul backswing bullshit aside. Vanguards have absurdly fast 2-handed swords+ knockback+ desyncs on their side, Man-at Arms can just dodge out of any mistake they make, and archers can deal a fuck-ton of damage from afar before closing for lightning-quick 1-hit melee kills.

    Knights, on the other hand, have more health, and that’s it. By no means is this game even close to balanced, but to me knights are the least bullshit-ridden class there is. Even most Messer/ Maul users are pretty easy to beat, once you learn to stop panic-blocking and actually watch your opponent.

    Also, 50 percent wins after 500 matches is nothing to brag about. It’s exactly average, and it doesn’t lend your argument any weight at all.

    Who said I was bragging? I was stating that I have enough experience to form a reasonable opinion. Trust me ALL of you, I know how to beat these all classes and weapon combos, this wasn’t a rage post and you’re all making it out to be just that. And honestly you sound like a knight who can’t beat anything but a vanguard so don’t even go and try to attack me lol.



  • SCREW IT, CHIV2 NEEDS TO COME OUT WITH REWORK CLOSE THE THREAD ENOUGH OF FLAMETHROWIN WARS



  • @petergriffin:

    The problem is not the class itself, but Messer and Maul being stupid, Longsword Knight is probably the most balanced, not-OP, not-trash loadout there is.

    Thank you very much kind sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar and I shall give to you all my internets for that statement. +1000:encouragement:



  • @Tallamy:

    UWOTM8 1v1 m3 1n m00r m8 ill spark u rite in tha grill m8 wiff a sling u dun even kno wuts comin m8

    Nice try tbh, did you google some uk cockney slang yank? Very strange I find a player named knights are op and fuck you in the group from the usa btw as you appeared so that purely confirmed my suspicions about
    your trolling. At least using swear words in a name on a group is a fast kick as it was.



  • Knights in vanilla game are a bullshit class tbh. It can be really fair when using longswor but thats it, rest of its arsenal is only bullshit weapons. Maul is hit trade master with 1htk capabilities, messer is stupid as fuck with lightning fast and slow as fuck attacks as well, sword of war is vanguard instagib and its goddamn unreadable at close range. As a vanguard, my range is useless against a skilled knight because I can’t flinch him in release thus I am in disadvantage almost always.

    Strongest class is the knight tbh. If you like duels, try dueling a good shield knight with norse sword, its rage inducing tbh. I have way more trouble fighting a good knight then a good MAA or vanguard.

    In mercs mod knights are very fine and b0lonce, because I can flinch these cunts and my range actually is good for something.



  • Nerf archers and MaAs so that you can nerf messer back to a good spot while buffing longsword and making SoW slower but stronger. Nerfing archers and MaAs would magically make other weapons like double axe, grand mace, war hammer ect. inherently more viable as well as flanged mace and broad sword. Though broad needs more damage to make up for its nerf, and Norse is still too strong. HWS is pretty strong too. Maul shouldn’t 1 shot knights, and should be easier to flinch in windup and combo.

    You don’t need to nerf knight. There’s a lot of more pressing matters that are making knights seem stronger than they really are, and MaAs are the main reason messer is so required. The great sword nerfs also made messer more required. Rather than increasing turn cap on knights, I think removing damage in early release to prevent ROHs is a more sensible solution. It wouldn’t nerf “look down overheads” or “turn into LMBs/alt LMBs,” just the stuff that look really stupid in the game and make it worse IMO. Of course, you would need to nerf MaA/archer for that be balanced as well.