Advanced Combat Moves are really just flaws in the engine and unrealistic



  • Moves like rainbowing and dragging are really just flaws in the engine and they aren’t realistic as far as physics is concerned.

    The beginning of any swing wouldn’t have any moment meaning it could do no damage and would actually be a really awesome place to stop a swing and shut down your opponent.

    Instead they are used as ways to get in more or less what could be considered cheap shots if they didn’t take so much practice to land, especially rainbowing.

    This is the sort of thing that will drive me and many other users to other games like For Honour.

    A simple fix would be to change damage through different parts of the swing arc.

    Just a thought.

    Cool if other members of the community like this but this is the sort of thing that drives me from games.

    Most companies work to fix things like this which they consider to be bugs/exploits.

    Thanks for reading and if I’ve pissed you off please think about it and see if in some time you don’t end up agreeing with me.

    Regards,

    The titmouse.



  • @Bitmouse:

    Moves like rainbowing and dragging are really just flaws in the engine and they aren’t realistic as far as physics is concerned.

    Game never claimed to be realistic. You can also summon a skeleton on one of the original maps.

    The beginning of any swing wouldn’t have any moment meaning it could do no damage and would actually be a really awesome place to stop a swing and shut down your opponent.

    Instead they are used as ways to get in more or less what could be considered cheap shots if they didn’t take so much practice to land, especially rainbowing.

    This is the sort of thing that will drive me and many other users to other games like For Honour.

    A simple fix would be to change damage through different parts of the swing arc.

    They did this for Deadliest Warrior.



  • The beginning of the swing already does no damage. It’s called the ‘windup’, it is roughly the same duration as the effective portion of the swing, and during this period it won’t do damage.



  • Reverse overheads are a lot easier to parry than a close up feint with a fast weapon, I like the diversity and love punishing people who do it. Drags are an essential part of the game and again you get used to defending against them with enough experience.



  • You are correct imo, these kind of thing break the game. Backswings are stupid as fuck, fake-out backswings even worse completely fucked. No chance we will see anything different in Chivalry: Medieval Warfare unless someone mod it.

    Deadliest Warrior tried to fix this by adding damage zones on the tracers, so the attack deals less damage at the start of the animation and at the ending of it, but needs b0lonce, biggest part of the community thought it was a bad move tbh, as it fucks with the gameplay on some aspects.

    Your best bet is www.mordhau.com or the next Torn Banner project to be announced.I have absolute 0 hype for this For Honor game tbh, seems boring

    Hey, when you say rainbow, you mean backswing right? The spinning shit?



  • @Vanguard:

    You are correct imo, these kind of thing break the game. Backswings are stupid as fuck, fake-out backswings even worse completely fucked. No chance we will see anything different in Chivalry: Medieval Warfare unless someone mod it.

    Deadliest Warrior tried to fix this by adding damage zones on the tracers, so the attack deals less damage at the start of the animation and at the ending of it, but needs b0lonce, biggest part of the community thought it was a bad move tbh, as it fucks with the gameplay on some aspects.

    Your best bet is www.mordhau.com or the next Torn Banner project to be announced.I have absolute 0 hype for this For Honor game tbh, seems boring

    Hey, when you say rainbow, you mean backswing right? The spinning shit?

    I have no idea what he means. But a rainbow is when you start doing a reverse overhead, but then drag the attack up over the opponent and bring it to the opposite site making a rainbow.

    Based on this guys post, I’m sure he means a level 25 vanguard running around in circles with a zwei.



  • without swing manipulation, the game would be extremely stale/skilless and just be about stamina wars & feinting

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y50tVaWg618

    it’s a l2p issue - accept chiv for how it is or wait for future melee titles like mordhau



  • Time to play devil’s advocate…

    It takes great practice and a bit of luck to learn how to drag, rainbow, do backswings and other things. Personally I applaud those who mange to pull these off during duels… swing speed/delayed swings are mentioned in the loading screen if you pay attention, so this means that half of these are legit techniques. A Backswing can literally a legit drag with added footwork and fancy positioning. The only move that can be argued as an exploit is the rainbow because it is manipulation of the overhead hitbox.

    And to be honest I’m feeling those who hate these advanced techniques are the salty players that get garbed by them. Just saying.



  • Don’t worry op, its not much different from the steam hub were most plebs cling to some idea the streetfighter movers
    are skilled using some bug/gliche or ini hack. let alone fov abuse or oc in the bios. If by some fluke they even had a valid
    argument then the player base would still be at least near 10,000 in off peak times even. Considering 3 million copies sold.

    These types of gamers are the least skilled, relying on such crutches for lack of true skill and usually in most games they
    play across the spectrum. I am most likely one of the few players remaining from day of release to never use or rely
    on such bloated bs to brag as skill. Pitiful creatures aren’t they…



  • I’m with Viz on this one. The weapons manipulation is one of the things about this game that l like best. Otherwise, this game wouldn’t have caught my attention.



  • I see what your getting as it seems the most illogical (in reality) moves are the most effective in this game, and that’s why I think new people have an issue with adjusting to them. The thought of turning you back on an enemy and swinging isn’t the first thing that comes to mind to a new player ha.

    However that being said the mechanics in this game behind dragging are what make this game, and they were intended, so I’d say they certainly aren’t flaws. But your definitely right about them being unrealistic.

    Reverse strikes I don’t believe were intended, I haven’t seen them mentioned in the tips etc or in the early developer video’s, and I would certainly agree that they are a flaw in the game. As even if I ignored all the biased reasons I have about them looking stupid and being impractical etc, I can still say they are unbalanced.

    For example a messer is meant to be a slowish weapon, yet with reverse overheads it can hit almost instantly, and even sometimes get past a shield, as you hit their feet. This means you can either embrace this and balance the stats of the messer to account for this ability, and therefore make it a poorer weapon when used as originally intended (lowering speed, lengthening windup etc). Or you can ignore this ability and not acknowledge it as part of the game, and still have the messer be effective without this ability, which I believe is whats happened.

    It’s a lose lose situation for the dev’s IMO, of an ability they didn’t foresee, as it results in imbalance either way, and quite honestly in this late development nothing will be done about it.

    They attempted a solution in deadliest warrior where mid swing does the most damage and early in the swing it hardly does any damage, but from what I’ve heard this decision isn’t popular (I haven’t got the game so I can’t comment)

    Tbh alot of this IMO comes down to the poor implementation of feints, if there was more a feint system with a higher skill ceiling and various approaches then the mechanic behind dragging wouldn’t be needed.

    As for reverses, one solution may be to just make it so sword swings don’t start from behind the head, this is in most cases realistic and would solve the problem.
    I think they should also revisit the idea they had in deadliest warrior, but this time have it so the Mid- end swing does similar damage and only the start of the swing does alot less damage.
    Alternatives could be that if you are parried when attempting to reverse, your turning is slowed, so you can’t turn around to face the enemy you turned your back on. This wouldn’t effect you if for example a teammate accidentally parried your blow from behind as you would still be facing the enemy and have the ability to parry.

    Overall the game needs SO many fixes and controls put in place to make the combat more fair, like no 3rd person (make up your mind if this should be a 1st or 3rd person game), an FOV cap 120 is enough, all these things and more. All I can hope is that they have learned from past mistakes and the next game is an improvement on this, as currently there aren’t many if any finished games like this.



  • And to be honest I’m feeling those who hate these advanced techniques
    are the salty players that get garbed by them. Just saying.

    what a silly word to use in gaming imo. I don’t recall that word being even
    used in gaming back in 2004, its crept in by a new generic generation of bs artists
    who call other gamers salt who question any flawed tactics they use tbh.
    What you have to figure out is if these advanced thingybobs were legit like say
    an opening in Chess, then players would still be playing this game in the 1000’s.
    Basically put it seems a few flaw points were found in that Chivalry Chess opening
    so the intelligent gamers simply up and left, due to the Talented Torn Banner simply
    pretending every new discovered trait of bug/exploit was a feature of the game hehe.

    Lazy but after all now Its doubtful most of those gamers will ever return to any Torn Banner
    Title ever again. eg lets not forget on the Christmas eve of 2014? The vanguard was suddenly
    blessed with the power of near flight, to cross almost half the map with one Charge?
    Such a drastic bug was then left for months? I recall some Vanguards actually saying in game
    it was a part of the game that they had mastered, this flying across map hehe….

    back in the day… in gaming you know… tbh



  • @Gnarlydude:

    I’m with Viz on this one. The weapons manipulation is one of the things about this game that l like best. Otherwise, this game wouldn’t have caught my attention.

    TY man. If this game was just stamina wars and hittrades to win I would have left this game a long time ago.

    If people didn’t despise feints so much on PC I doubt alternate methods to get around parries would even be used in the first place tbh. personally I’d rather be killed by a waterfall foot drag than fall for a feint any day.



  • @VizualDeciple:

    TY man. If this game was just stamina wars and hittrades to win I would have left this game a long time ago.

    If people didn’t despise feints so much on PC I doubt alternate methods to get around parries would even be used in the first place tbh. personally I’d rather be killed by a waterfall foot drag than fall for a feint any day.

    Point is, same way some feints are flawed and can’t be properly dealt with, some drags can’t be properly deffended from. Halberd fake-out backswings for example are quite broken. I guess we can all agree that drags and feints are good idea, and this mechanic in general is a great idea, but the game itself has a lot of problems balance wise (especially vanilla game without mercs mod).

    These tricks does requires some skill, but they break the game anyways imo. Its not good gameplay as I see it, when you master the big b0ckswing techniques, some kills even feel cheap tbh. Thats why people gamble so much look at the tools we have, its fucking Las Vegas!

    B0ckswing gamble paradise.



  • when told to walk, we don’t like to see , running, hopping, bunny jumping, reverse crab running or binocs for view.
    that is y lots have left this game now. it was suppose to be a level field. if 2 players are with same loadout they
    like a fair fight. not to feel cheated by some scam. Its not that they dislike you but the idea such scam combat
    moves aren’t fixed. players sense of fair play is a major gaming sense, which they will seek else square if
    they don’t see it. 1 finger typing atm.



  • Its sad that the community has to die because newbies don’t want to have to deal with the learning curve. If I want an all walking game I’d play COD lol.



  • @loin:

    when told to walk, we don’t like to see , running, hopping, bunny jumping, reverse crab running or binocs for view.
    that is y lots have left this game now. it was suppose to be a level field. if 2 players are with same loadout they
    like a fair fight. not to feel cheated by some scam. Its not that they dislike you but the idea such scam combat
    moves aren’t fixed. players sense of fair play is a major gaming sense, which they will seek else square if
    they don’t see it. 1 finger typing atm.

    Its sad that the community has to die because newbies don’t want to have to deal with the learning curve. If I want an all walking game I’d play COD lol.



  • well I’ve never tried cod? I did have call of duty on the ps2 that first game was good with sgt church? most annoying Ai
    ever made. INfact often the time was spent trying to get him killed. To dominate games without using anything but the
    basic hit trade parry etc still takes lots of skills esp when dealing with the uber move types tbh. Even with all those
    weird moves , when in the right mood none of them can beat me at all. What they needed was a freestyle version
    were anything goes, giving players the option. Quake3 had an osp version for the elitists back in the day but the normal
    version was still used for fun on pubs. etc



  • One way to take out dragging would be to make parrying infinite but make them have to be more precise.

    But I don’t want that to happen. I like the way the combat system is designed ……

    except for the vanguard charge BS. Looks tucking retarded and doesn’t even work. Might as well just give all classes a lunging attack when they hold down their stab button to replace the vanguard charge. Except they need to take out the whole 10 yard leap that they do.



  • Indeed at least you were not here for those 5 months when Torn banner left the 50 yard leap
    vanguards got on the Christmas eve tbh. It could even be considered it was done on purpose
    as a gift to the vans. One to many sherry’s at the Xmas party perhaps a naughty developer
    put in 100 instead of 10 yard dash hehe. What about easy mode or hardcore mode selectable
    on menu, which has servers filtered accordingly. If players feel ready to deal out punishment
    or elitist then they can join the hardcore servers. If not a range of less challenging servers.
    As it is players are just leaving because they can’t deal with the hardcore skilled players.
    Just ideas tbh, The low rank servers were a good idea imo. Why even the config settings
    could be switched by the game if joining easy servers or hardcore freestyle ones. limiting
    certain moves parameters at load time as you connect to server, I am sure its easy to do
    a developer might have already looked at this.


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