First impressions thread!


  • Developer

    Some notes about the build you were playing:

    • Reverse overheads are not supposed to work, due to a bug in the angle check they are still possible in some cases
    • First hit flinch is enabled though there is a bug that since that build has been fixed where interrupts sometimes don’t occur
    • In the Blocked state you can’t get parry up quickly enough, the rule accidently got removed but will be fixed in the next build (some ripostes activate before you can block again without this)
    • The entropist is still very early design wise

    Some of the bigger things we’re working on:

    • The game can get very hectic with too much ability use and we need to pull it back
    • Some maps have a tendancy to focus fighting in a very narrow area turning it into a moshpit.
    • Performance is a big issue, testing remotely and more often will help us find the problems, it hasn’t been a high priority for us but it’ll be more important going forward.
    • A lot of abilities don’t have a weakness, this leads too players activating abilities too often
    • Abilities will always be a big focus, currently making good progress and getting new ones in quickly as well as changing the existing ones.

    Some questions to help structure feedback, don’t have to answer all of them

    • Whatever’s on your mind!
    • What was your most rewarding/memorable experience
    • What class did you enjoy the most and why?
    • How did you find the pace of the game?
      • run times to engagement
      • how long fights lasts
      • general impression of amount of stuff going on at any one time
    • Crowd control, were you frustrated by interrupts or the amount of movement imposed on you?
    • Queueing, did you accidently queue something or did queueing ever fail/feel wrong?
    • Maps,
      • Layouts
      • objectives
    • What was the most frustrating experience?
    • What do you think we could do to improve the game the most?
      • Immediate changes (smaller things that you think we should focus on now)
      • Big picture changes

  • Mod

    Ayo!

    Had my first chance to play, got roughly measly 90 mins in and I started jotting down some notes that came to mind while I was playing, I’ll try to just relay most of them here. I played and talked with Gauntlet mainly as well as against a bot and Spook.

    The inability to sprint and the max movespeed on all characters was by far my least favorite part. Perhaps I’ve spend too much time in Chivalry, Titanfall, and r6 but it pained me. I assumed it was bugged when I first joined the server. Map size seem relatively accommodating for it, but any chance felt like I was going on a leisurely stroll to catch up, and I almost never did.

    Was fun to see a lot of the new abilities, lots of lovely animations and interesting mechanics. I’d love to see more of them working in unison as a team, stuff like Putting the anti projectile bubble shield with the wall to take an objective or the like. Also really enjoyed the art style, something I personally haven’t seen, ditto to a nice UI and pleasent music. Although no dragging of projectiles as of yet I liked seeing the ‘gravity’ pulling them down and the knock offs, although for me felt like RNG since I probably don’t know what I’m doing.

    I started cracking up the first time I played as big fatso man (Sorry I forgot some of the names), particularly when he started flying on the carpet. Seemed like the characters I genuinely had the most enjoyment of in the short period was lady shield person and the big mace man. Lady shield person seemed to have a ridiculous size of her parry box, which I found silly at first.

    One thing I couldn’t figure out and people I talked to at least that didn’t know was what exactly the green glowy stuff around you was, didn’t come immediately and none of us figured it out after talking for a minute or so.

    I was a little bit disappointed at the lack of kick, although some of the dodges/pushbacks make up for it for the non parry classes. Crouching seemed pretty useless. When I first hopped in as big mace man and tried the whirlwind I personally thought you would be able to shift click and spin him in the opposite direction, I was a little disappointed when that didn’t pan out, but it came to my mind right away.

    Feinting seemed mostly useless given the parry hold, would it’s purpose be just to make people dodge on accident? Also CFTP was quite slow and something I just got used to it Chiv over how many thousand hours.

    I had a few times where I q’d up a stab I suppose and that through me off since I wasn’t trying to.

    One interesting mechanic that I’m not sure if intended or not was when you were inside the iron dome and the enemy cast a tsunami it would in fact fly backwards behind them, actually looked pretty cool when you executed something correctly w/ it. Also the impaler didnt work in the dome, is it supposed to be ‘anti-magic’?

    Again, probably a hard habit to kill from chivalry, but I didn’t enjoy how dragging the weapons felt with everything so slow, and how kinda useless they were with the parry hold or no parry. The parry hold just seemed odd to me w/ a one size fits all approach.

    Gauntlet showed me this, but I really enjoyed how one was able to hold space next to a ledge and the game would push you the extra distance to make it over. Nice little QOL stuff.

    First person animation not matching up to third person was something I noticed near the end and I found odd. Also the names of the teams are strange as I can’t remember them at all and they are far too long for my first impression. Also liked seeing the big fatso guy shooting the larger balls with the smaller, faster ones to blow them up at a certain distance.

    Anyhow, those were just a few of my thoughts as I gave it my very first play through. Thanks again for the opportunity! I hope to get some more time to delve deeper into it soon.


  • Global Moderator

    Hey guys. I thought verbally chatting between eachother would be good, so i have a spare Teamspeak 3 channel on a dedicated server that i have put up. It is only for people who have signed the NDA so we can freely talk about the game. The address is syd.streamlineserver.com:9996 its open to join, but mirage channel is locked and password is Latte, feel free to join.
    PS if you already have one, let me know would love to talk and i will shut up, Plus Devs should get in sometime. Will be good to communicate via voice.


  • Global Moderator

    Ahh okay, being in an instructional position i will start with things that annoyed me most then finish on the high points.

    BAD
    MUSIC - After a few rounds of this i wanted to hurt myself :P the music is interesting, sort of reminds me of pokemon gameboy games, and i had to turn it down.

    Block - projectile blocking is direct, but melee is omni directional, maybe something that will change in the future !? also having some classes without the ability to block, might lead to class stacking and group rushing obliterating opponents.

    Game speed - The game speed in general seems slow, from projectiles, to not having the ability to run, and also the swings, in my opinion this needs to be increased for it to become more difficult to block adding to the skill ceiling, or fights might last TOO long and end up being a Killsteal arena.

    Damage to self - The taurant bolder toss for example. throwing this monster spiked boulder at your feet in a melee vs melee fight and not doing any damage to self.

    **SO BIG PICTURE CHANGES **- Game speed, i think coming to a better solution to slow gameplay will make this thoroughly more enjoyable for me.

    GOOD

    Overall look - Loved it, seen it before in other games but not enough to be overused, adds to the genre imo.

    Tinker Taunt - Gauntlet showed me possibly the best thing i have ever seen in gameplay to date. the tinker taunt. sheesh please never change that. i can imagine 20-30 all doing.

    So overall (in my opinion) much potential and i am looking forward to it, as stated above i would personally like to see block and especially game speed tinkered with (pun intended, New favorite class due to taunt) I have written down alot of bugs and glitches i found and will share them when the time is right.

    Cheers Boots



  • First impressions? I love the atmosphere and aesthetic. It’s very unique, an unexpected setting, with lots of room for expanding upon the game with exotic locations that will entice and enthrall players. All the maps are visually impressive and the design lends itself to interesting gameplay encounters.

    Most rewarding experience?
    Chaining abilities together with Vypress. Beginning a strike, canceling the animation into a dodge -> phase behind the enemy -> 180 turn with a dash kick is EXTREMELY fun. Having abilities chain together in meaningful ways that promote player input is hugely rewarding. For this reason alone I found Vypress to be the most fun class to play. Entropist has a similar thing going on with his charge ball combo, which is most similar to Unreal Tournament’s shock rifle combo. Expanding upon this avenue and speeding up his projectiles could make for more exciting gameplay.

    Movement: The addition of abilities that allow players z axis freedom is really nice, adds a lot of flavor being able to rise into the sky and drop onto enemies. Being able to climb ledges by holding space is a nice addition and helps with map flow.

    Pacing: Pace is far too slow. Player movement speed feels sluggish, and melee attacks have too long of a windup. Having dramatic animations for windup is fine to telegraph that an attack is happening, but it doesn’t need to be so slow. Sprint does not exist in this build, and feels missing. Having a sprint with limited use could remedy the issue of the slow pacing of movement, while avoiding the “always sprint” mentality of Chivalry.

    Melee: The melee in the game is in my opinion, unexciting and shallow. Two classes lack basic abilities to engage with the combat; the ability to parry / block. Parrying is hugely punished with a minuscule stamina(?) pool. Defending against attacks requires neither timing or aim, as the block volume is huge (larger than Chivalry??) and the element of timing is gone with no reward for parrying at an ‘optimal’ moment and now we have the ability to hold the block volume indefinitely. If the intention is to go with holdable blocks / parries, it is important to emulate what other melee games have done with such a system: directional based block volumes. It shouldn’t be a one-size fits all volume, that catches every attack. Otherwise, directional strikes are meaningless, and a single attack animation would suffice for such a simple combat system. Defending against multiple attackers is a futile engagement, due to a dearth of tools to defend oneself from multiple attacks simultaneously for any extended amount of time. Players having large, holdable block volumes wound up feeling extremely oppressive in 1v# encounters, as landing a hit became near impossible. Mostly 1v# engagements ended with the one being forced into defense until the stamina for parrying dissipated and the defender took damage. A solution to this might be having ripostes that act as an active defense while also returning a strike, where the weapon collides with other player weapons and enable defenders a way out of being locked down.

    In regards to defense: Currently feints (cancels) are only usable in defense since holdable blocks are now a thing, but there exists a delay when feinting to parry, and combo feinting into parry. This makes canceling out of attacks for self-preservation unreliable.

    When I first started up Mirage I was under the impression that the combat would be much like Chivalry, but with special abilities and reduced effectiveness of drags / feints and removal of reverse overhead attacks (three of the largest complaints of players from Chiv, and understandably so). It is refreshing that you have decided against making it so close to Chivalry, but in doing so I believe a lot of the learning curve and potential player skill is limited with overly simplified systems. Unfortunately creativity escapes me in providing a solution to what I perceive as a problem for the core mechanics of the game, and my only thoughts in regard to melee combat is “make it more like Chivalry” since that is what I know, and have loved for almost 3000 hours of play time since 2012. I think adapting to a holdable parry model is something that can be done, but only if it behaves more like M&B or War of the Roses with directional parries/blocks instead of a massive block volume that covers your sides, front, upper torso, legs, and does so far too generously.

    Also Lilboots server is a good idea for communication. We tried using Clock’s server but unfortunately I forgot that other folks outside of the NDA had admin and could drop into our passworded channel at will. So that is out of the question now.

    I’m reserving my comments on how the maps / objectives play out for larger test groups, as we only had five players maximum today during testing and because of that, time for engagements was definitely longer than what it would normally be. The actual design of the maps was fun and interesting, and allowed some parkour’esque maneuvering between objective sites.

    Queueing attacks: When playing as Entropist, he would consistently accidentally queue more than one lmb attack (a spammable projectile spell). This was partially due to habit of me mashing a key, but the threshold for which it registered multiple queries from my mouse was probably too long, so that when I had long since stopped hitting the key it would twice more try to cast.


  • Mod

    It has a lot of potential.

    Had a quick muck around with lemonater on the training maps with a fair few bots. Was good fun to just test out different abilities and move sets and all the rest. It definitely feels a little spammy with the abilities at this current point in time, but it’s hard to test properly against bots only as I noticed flinch also cancels abilities so it’d be different against skilled players. Played with 300 ping so that also didn’t help. I tested it with me as the host as well though which was a lot smoother.

    Lack of sprint definitely felt a little odd and slow at times, but I guess that’s due to habits from other games.

    The art style is beautiful and the game maintained it’s 60+ frames most of the time, unless there was total chaos in the middle of the map.

    Excited for further testing and very impressed at what you guys have made so far.


  • Mod

    Art style: Absolutely amazing, the maps feel unique and everything looks like it fits. Love it!

    Combat: This area definitely has a lot of room to improve. Figuring out all the abilities and what they do/how you can chain certain ones together was pretty fun, though I feel after that initial learning phase it became a lot like a dungeon crawler where you’d just spam the most effective abilities all the time and disregard most of the rest. Gauntlet covered most of my thoughts about melee in his post but I’d like to emphasize how important it is that feint to parry/combo feint to parry work more responsively, it feels clunky and restrictive to not be able to defend yourself when you want to. Speaking of defending yourself, I’m really not a fan of the parrying system. It feels like an intentional skill cap made to limit how good you can be as an individual by only allowing you to actually defend yourself 2-3 times (depending on the weapon’s parry drain) before the game decides you shouldn’t be alive anymore. This coupled with the huge parry box and holdable parries make melee fights extremely shallow and turn into who can out stam the other person first, since if you get the stamina disadvantage (lower stam than your opponent) the other person can just tank your hits and force you to die. This makes being super aggressive the optimal playstyle, especially with the incredible slow health regen. That’s in 1v1 anyway, 1vMany is basically hopeless because of the parry drain and lack of needing to time parries, there’s just no way to win even if you play optimally because of the game’s mechanics, which in my opinion isn’t very fun. The lack of sprint doesn’t help this either as it reduces the amount of footwork and evasion you can do, in turn reducing combat depth. Attack animations also sometimes look jerky, a faster windup as Gauntlet suggested would probably make them seem smoother. Hits don’t quite feel like they have the same satisfying impact as in Chivalry.

    Setting: It’s interesting, I definitely want to learn more about the lore and characters, why they’re fighting, where this is taking place, etc. The names (teams, characters) are very unique but I think it might hurt more than it helps. The only names I remember is Taurant and Azar, and that’s because I mainly played Taurant.

    Maps: Other than the fantastic art style and environment, the level design isn’t really anything special. I found it somewhat difficult to navigate the Ravine map because of all the catwalks and staircases, it felt like playing in that one MC Escher drawing, and there’s a few misleading areas that look like you can jump over to but end up falling in the water. Overall it isn’t bad though.

    Summary: Love the aesthetic, combat is too shallow, names are hard to remember, maps are okay.

    I wrote as I thought of things so sorry if it reads babbly and jumps around to different ideas. These were my first impressions after about 7 hours of playtime with ~5 players, and despite my criticisms I did enjoy myself and had a good time. This game has a lot of potential and I really want to see it succeed.


  • Developer

    @Lilboots said:

    Hey guys. I thought verbally chatting between eachother would be good, so i have a spare Teamspeak 3 channel on a dedicated server that i have put up. It is only for people who have signed the NDA so we can freely talk about the game. The address is syd.streamlineserver.com:9996 its open to join, but mirage channel is locked and password is Latte, feel free to join.
    PS if you already have one, let me know would love to talk and i will shut up, Plus Devs should get in sometime. Will be good to communicate via voice.

    Great idea. Saw it in action last night. looking into possibility of hosting something on our side.



  • Some good points made already! Some notes I took while playing offline against bots/using abilities and exploring the test map in the hour or so I spent, purely first impressions kind of stuff. Sorry if its a bit rambly and long winded, I just wanted to get my thoughts in full out there.


    Current suggestions/issues I am having:

    I found that being damaged and being at low health isn’t quite obvious enough yet. I suspect you will be adding in peripheral decals later on like in chiv, but at the moment I get hit and don’t realise when fighting because there’s not enough indication.

    To add on to that, I don’t think flinch last’s long enough in its current state (not sure if this is the first hit flinch bug mentioned earlier)–some classes can get hit, recover from flinch, and then hit me before I can land the next hit in my combo (this was against bots).

    The main UI is a bit clunky right now, I generally have to click things twice before it registers (could be because of UI animations?) such as when selecting a class. Related, when choosing a class, it should display whatever class you currently are rather than defaulting to the minotaur guy I think–QoL kind of situation if you just want to change abilities.

    There are discrepancies between first person and third person at the moment, likely already known, but thought I’d state anyway. In first person, you can bend your body on the Y axis (such as bending backwards to reverse overhead in Chivalry or bending forward to duck while crouching)–in first person this works, but in third person you can’t bend yourself at all it seems. Makes for a rather stiff third person experience.

    Queueing weapon attacks gives you too much leeway, from what I experienced and seemed to be able to reproduce. You can right click to block, press an attack key simultaneously or immediately after, have the entire block animation go through + get hit/parry, and then your attack would finally swing from that initial queuing after all that had finished, which felt really odd and delayed.
    The game sometimes continues to queue attacks after you get hit too, so if you go to overhead into a combo–but get hit before the second attack in the combo, after recovering it will try to attack again.

    Vypress definitely seems to be the most developed class so far, and it is definitely my favourite so far. A couple of things specifically about this class:
    The mobility of some of her moves (Grappling Hook and Dash Kick especially) is so fun. I could pretty much play the game for ages just running around and getting to weird places using those moves.
    That said, the grappling hook could be a bit better. It’s very clunky at the moment and loses momentum after the initial speed up too suddenly. I think if the speed is kept but gradually reduced in a more natural way it could be an even more fun ability to use.

    Being able to queue abilities one after another would be pretty great too, such as queueing the Dash Kick after using Grappling Hook–at the moment I have to spam the Dash Kick ability towards the end of the Grappling Hook if I want to use it to get even further/use it to continue moving around the map.


    Big picture/feel of the game kind of comments:

    I feel that there is huge potential in more freedom in mobility and in the Y axis of the map. I think that jumps should be much higher to kind of convey the feeling that all directions in 3D are viable. Along with this, I think allowing mobility skills to activate while using the space bar jump would add to the mobility freedom–a lot of abilities don’t work while jumping for some reason (generally from the ground I tested–the grappling hook on Vipress is really cool when jumping off things though! More stuff like that please).

    Hard to get to places and high up areas feel really cool and rewarding to get to (on the testing map, using a mix of Grappling Hook and Dash Kick to get onto the yellow chandelier things hanging from the ceiling was really fun for me)–having these kinds of places which can’t be accessed by conventional means adds so much to map design I think, and they don’t always have to be high up places without stairs or ramps–they could be areas only accessed through using a teleportation skill through a glass wall, or smashing stuff down, etc. Interaction with the map through the use of abilities adds a new dynamic to the game which goes beyond combat, and I would love to see more of that.
    I haven’t played any of the maps yet other than the small test map, so what I’m saying may be redundant, but I thought I’d put it out there anyway.

    Speed is definitely an issue. I imagine you will be adding sprint at a later date, but the current move speed feels very slow too–I think it could be a bit faster.

    Agree with Gauntlet about the melee combat, I do think if it can feel as good and polished as Chivalry’s then that should be the goal–However, I do think some innovations could be tested. For example, I do like the new blocking a bit more than Chivalry’s simply because feinting/weapon cancelling is almost purely defensive now (Sorry people who enjoy playing with and against feints, I don’t!), but I definitely agree it needs changes such as more accurate directional blocking or something rather than being an end-all block + blocking stamina needs work.
    I’m not sure if ripostes are possible in Mirage at the moment. I feel that if they are they should be made more obvious because I simply couldn’t tell. If they’re not already, I do think if implemented they should work similar to Chivalry’s parrying to activate the window needed to riposte (i.e. clicking RMB rather than holding to get a shorter block which opens the riposte window).


    And lastly, just a couple of questions to better understand which direction Mirage is heading, if possible:

    Will there be weapon choices for each class as in Chivalry? So far each class seems fairly unique in which weapon is used (and to add on to this, will the style of blocking be a choice? Such as choosing a dodge move instead of a blocking move when right clicking)?
    Answered here kind of

    If there will be no weapon choices, will there be more classes in a similar vain to MOBA’s (Smite, Dota) where each class has a general role and style of ability (Vypress’ movement vs the Minotaur’s damaging abilities vs some other classes range etc), and will more classes be released eventually leading to a diverse roster?

    Or are skills the new weapons, especially since they essentially change your style of play depending on what you pick, and will there be more skills added onto the classes?


    Really good alpha so far guys, I’ve had more fun with it against bots who can’t parry or use abilities in 60 mins than I ever would have in Chivalry against bots, which to me says a lot about the concepts in the game already! Once more polished I hope everything really comes together into a fun experience for everyone. KIU!


  • Mod

    I only had a chance to play once by myself for about an hour so far with that said:

    Being able to hold the block takes away from the gameplay and makes the whole dragging mechanic useless.

    Sprinting - I feel like the whole being forced into the sprint takes away from gameplay. Something I’ve always enjoyed in chiv is when I’m fighting multiple enemies positioning is key and weaving and running around them to get them to do team damage or delay the next attack they get off is crucial. I feel like everyone always sprint may take away from this as well as limit player freedom. One thing you can do in DW (probably MW also) is sprint and someone and hold crouch to run at walking speed - doing this, and other tricks involving sprint to make players panic parry is always fun. (although panic parry doesn’t matter since you can hold block hey?)

    One subtle thing I noticed is the characters move forward while doing melee attacks. I personally am not a fan of this because I feel it limits my options but I’m sure a lot of other games force you forward slightly while using a melee attack so we’ll have to see if it actually matters that much.

    So yeah mostly just stuff others have already pointed out with regards to preferring chiv’s system of parry and sprinting to mirage’s since it seems to offer more freedom (or something like that).

    The characters had the samurai from DW’s voice for their melee combat yells when attacking really quietly under their voice - that was funny - anyone else notice that?

    I’ll need to play more before I can say much else but these were the big things.

    Will the factions have the classes looking different from each other like mason and Agatha knights look different from each other?

    Civil war for the lore again? The lore of the game seems like it’s copy and pasted from chivalry’s lore at the moment. Civil War - philosophical differences - different colours - 2 factions - etc


  • Global Moderator

    Hello,
    I’ve only play online with other people for about 30-60 mins, so I’ll keep my first impression very short and add details whenever necessary.
    Overall I like the new mechanics, it feels very fresh compared to Chivalry. Im not able to say how original the combat mechanics are compared to other games as I own very few “fantasy” and “magic” games.

    The looks:
    I feel that the textures in their current state look a bit mushy and lack detail (this may ofcourse be due to the alpha status) but I think that more texture details could do a lot in terms of crispness/sharpness and ultimately depth perception. I will not criticise the overall art style as this is completely subjective.

    Gameplay:
    As written above, quite unique and fun. Here’s just a small bit of critique. Overall it came across as if the classes do too little damage per hit, across the board. Occasionaly it took excrutiatingly long to kill even the lightest of classes. Furthermore, the mage classes seem to be the be the weakest by far (especialy the tall guy with wings). In terms of combat all the classes could use a buff when it comes to damage, especialy the ones that rely heavily on magic.

    Performance:
    Performance was quite good. GPU usage was in the high 80% margin and the the temps were similiar to the ones in Chiv, despite the upgrade to UE4. Next time I’ll have to play closer attention to the FPS counter, but it must have been in the 60’s during my gameplay time.

    Needless to say, all this is just a personal oppinion.

    Thanks for reading.


  • Developer

    Thanks for all the feedback peeps!
    We’re going to try to organize another playtest next week with hopefully a few more people involved to give you a chance to play through a few of the different maps and modes. I’ll be sending out a doodle so we can pick a time that works for the highest number of people.



  • Played with other people for the first time yesterday–unfortunately the ping latency to an American server was quite atrocious, so I really can’t comment much on fighting other people beyond I bet it was just as annoying for them to try to fight me with skills and swings going through me as it was for me trying to fight them :crying_cat_face: Hopefully we can get some more EU people in the alpha and an EU server up so us EU folk can have a bit of a go with a more accurate representation of the fighting.

    On the game modes, the ones we played were quite fun I thought, even with my lag. We only had 2v2 and 3v2 games for the most part, so getting a full 6v6 or 12v12 experience wasn’t quite the same, but even then the maps were over perhaps a bit too quickly.

    I enjoyed the CTF map the most I think (Pick up the flag from the middle, try to push into the enemies side, if you die the enemy has an opportunity to pick up the flag and push to your side). Right now I think it would be far too easy for one side to get the first advantage and then kind of steamroll the rest of the map if the teams were bigger–especially if unevenly matched in skill, the game would last not 5 minutes.
    I think a way to improve that map however is make it longer both in time and in physical map length by adding ‘check points’ through the map kind of like a Rugby match (idk if American football does this too?) where you get the flag so far and then it starts spawning from that position and you spawn closer to it, but if the other team pushes back to a different checkpoint then your spawn is moved back and theirs forward, if you catch my drift.

    The new LTS/bomb planting mode was interesting. With more speed and mobility abilities I think it could be quite a fun mode. Not being familiar with the map hurts my first impression a bit of course, since no matter whether we went to A or B the other team seemed to know straight away which made any tactical decision to go to the other a bit moot, but maybe that was just a product of not knowing the map properly and the teams being so small that we couldn’t really hold each other off to go plant the bomb. A similar TDM mode could be quite fun too. Definitely need to change it from ‘plant the bomb’ to something more magical :P

    We played a TO map too but I really don’t have much to say about it–I think they pushed a ram (or floating orb thing), captured some points, and pushed it some more–it was a tad short perhaps, and a bit uninteresting in terms of things to do/objective to complete. Again, being unfamiliar with the map didn’t help, but it seemed quite okay from what I could tell.

    We did get some interesting plays via abilities though, Hannes was laying down the Genie Carpet Guy’s red wall a bunch (Which reminds me of Ymir’s wall ability from Smite–a great defensive ability which can save so many lives), managing to block off some corridors at some points making us find alternate routes to stop the cart which was quite interesting. I’ve got to admit, at this point, the defensive and CC abilities interest me far more than damaging ones–at the moment they don’t stop you from playing, but change how you play/how aggressive you are which is quite cool.
    With the grapple/pulling abilities and the knock down/flinch abilities it felt like there wasn’t enough time to get a hit in before the victim recovered. I think if they get by an ability like that and fail to block or dodge it, it should lead to some sort of attack (especially the grappling ability) otherwise the skill shot (precision aiming ability as opposed to auto-lockon ability) is a bit wasted beyond being a slight inconvenience.

    Looking forward to the next build!


  • Global Moderator

    Here’s my 2 cents about the test session from yesterday night. (17.03.16)

    Despite the high ping and the game’s alpha status I found it more fun to play than I initialy expected. After playing the game with 4-6 players for the first time I realised that there are a lot of ways in which you can engage in creative teamplay. This includes setting down magic walls, healing teammates and so forth. At one point we talked about how nice it would be to trap an enemy inside of 4 magic walls and then kill him with magic. Something like this could be very rewarding if you have the proper teammates.

    Other points to adress are the healing, team damage, the alchemancer and the magic mechanics.

    Healing:
    Yesterday someone brought up that the healing speed could be a bit faster. We agreed that, while the healing speed might need some slight tweaking, its very important to not remove the incentive for teammates to heal other players. An increase in healing speed will probably punish those classes most that do the least damage anyway.

    Team damage:
    After playing with quite a few people I see exactly why Tm Dmg is not enabled. About half of my kills would have been teamkills, had it been enabled. I think team damage might work in the future, but not like in Chivalry. Perhaps it would be possible to punish a team damaging player by removing life from him everytime he hits a teammate. (i.e If you cause 40 points worth of teamdamage to another player, you will be punished by getting 40 points removed from your own character. If this is too harsh its always possible to just remove of a fraction of the teamdamage from your own character (ex: 50% = 20 hp))

    The Alchemancer:
    Honestly hope I remembered the name correctly. Its the tall character that can use wings. This guy seems to be the weakest class so far. His magic attacks can kill people, but he’s extremely dependent on his teammates keeping enemies from closing in on him, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Non the less I think that he needs a way to block incoming melee/magic attacks if all else fails. Perhaps it would be possible to allow this character to use his fists, as he does not have any melee weapons anyway? If you want to keep this character as a ranged class exclusively, then a 5 second magic shield might help?

    The Magic and its “reload” times:
    Since magic is a big part of the game im pretty sure you guys already considered this in the design process, but what do you think about combining all the magic into a single “magic bar” like it is commonly found in RPG’s, or even the stamina bar in Chiv. This may allow the player to be more flexible with the use of his special abilities. A character might be able to spawn 2 boulders in sequence without having to wait for a reload, but in return the magic bar would take twice as long to refill (Magic bar = 100 points worth of magic abilities. 1 boulder might take 50 points, etc). But as I said earlier, you probably have your current magic system for a reason.
    Please dont get me wrong, as the current system works quite well. This suggestion is more of a luxury feature down the road to provide more flexibility for the players’ use of magic, and its nothing that needs fixing per se.

    A lot of this feedback is probably too big to be a simple “fix” or “improvement”, but I hope it might help in the long run.

    Thanks for reading,
    Hannes


  • Mod

    I haven’t had much time to play much, so my first impressions will probably be pretty useless, but here they are nonetheless!

    My biggest critique is it’s too overwhelming, but this could be the unfamiliarity with the game. I felt that I was just button mashing, which is one of the best aspects of Chivalry in that you don’t do that (if you git gud). I’m not sure how much of the mechanics will change as the game develops, but it would be nice to have a bit more focus on melee. Magic will be a great addition to the games you guys have already developed, but your following of Chivalry fans might be disappointed if they don’t have at least some similar fighting mechanics (please no vanguard charge). The reason why Chivalry tops many players’ Steam games for number of hours played is the melee – Mirage doesn’t have that yet, and I felt myself getting bored very quickly. This game feels more similar to Deadliest Warrior to me in terms of melee, where you just spam swing.

    I need to spend more time with the characters and understand the magic, but as a beginner, I felt that with six different classes, each with at least six different abilities was way too overwhelming. It would be nice to have maybe more abilities (like weapons in chivalry) where you can unlock spells as you rank up, but start with a few basics to get the feel for each class before you are just dumped into a bunch of random button mashing. The magic seems like the showcase of this game, and it seemed too slow and confusing to rely on for most characters.

    Please add a sprint button! I hated dying even more because it meant I had to baby step back to the battle field. And please tell me there will be voice commands, because that is the only reason I play chivalry (jk, for the ordah)

    I’ll do my best to be there for other alpha events, but until May, I’m in the hell period most grad students know as the end of the semester. I’ll make sure my next comments are constructive :P


  • Developer

    @Tummeh
    We’re testing out “checkpoints” in a pushable map and it seem to work okayish. We find that these sorts of things end up seesawing back and forth as control changes hands. We have since reduced our push and deliver distances to be quick scores to avoid this.

    We’re really liking the LTS modes, they do a lot to make people thing about team composition and working together. The map we played is a test level, to try it out.

    We’re trying to add more context to the maps so it feels like you’re doing something, very work in progress.

    @SgtHannes
    We’ve actually already played with most of your suggestions in the past.

    Re: healing: this is a matter of tuning. We want to encourage healers (vigilist and entropist at the moment), this is currently not supported in our score system in any way however.

    Re: team damage: we did an internal playtest with team damage on (like you suggest, not full strength). We’re on the fence about it at the moment, on one hand it makes players think about their actions more; but it also adds some confusion to the combat as friendly hitting you pops up hit indicators, making it very hard to tell where you should be focusing your attention in a fight. I’d be interested in getting you guys a build with team damage on to see what you think about it in action.

    Re: Alcemancer: Our plan is to have this class exclusively ranged. His RMB force push can actually redirect enemy projectiles and his 3rd ability slot is reserved for evasion abilities (teleport/fly). We’ve found this class is very sensitive to tuning, if abilities are too strong he’s an unstoppable killing machine, if too weak he’s completely useless. Work in Progress.

    Re: Magic and reloads: We use to actually have a “mana pool” that all abilities drained from, on top of a timed cool down. we found that this led to players dumping their pool into a fight as they approached and then dying before being able to use them again.

    @Butternutthesquash
    Your name is horrible to type and breaks my brain.

    You have confirmed our greatest fears with the over whelming part. The plan is to unlock abilities as you progress kind of like the weapons in chiv. So newbies will start with a much reduced number of options from the get go. We’re also planning on some sort of light tutorial of some sort to teach new players the basics.

    We had a spring button which I greatly miss, it sometimes feels slow to step in to hit an opponent in a fight. WIP.


  • Global Moderator

    @Killer-Crabs

    Since the game was in developement for quite a while now (no clue as to how long exactly), I expected that you guys had already tested a lot of the ideas I mentioned.

    Trying out a team dmg build would surely be interesting. Regarding the “mana pool” abilities: thats an interesting point, havnt thought about that. That also goes back to my guess that the current magic/mana system is in the game for a reason, and now I know why.

    @Butternutthesquash

    I think I might know what you mean. First of all there are 6 instead of 4 unique classes in the game, and every class has between 6 and 9 (?) magic abilities to chose from. That might take some getting used to, but coming from the simulation corner of games I would much rather prefer a game with a lot of depth over a shallow game that takes only 30 minutes to learn. Ofcourse one must also not confuse “depth” with “unnecessary complexity”.

    Maybe it would be possible to lock 3 of the classes until the player has enough experience to unlock the rest? That way you can get half of the classes off the players mind, which might also ensure a smoother progression.



  • I have not yet played multiplayer, I will most likely make another post about that experience later on! I will probably compare the game a lot to chivalry below.

    Gameplay:

    • Parry:
      • The ability to hold a parry is sort of dull and removes from the depth of the game. CMW was far superior in this area as it works right now.
      • Not being able to parry with every class is somewhat annoying.
      • Instead of having a parry held up forever, it would probably be better with a system similar to that of chivalry where you use timing.
      • I noticed that you can’t parry Alcemancers at facehug for some reason.
      • Being able to block all types of attacks is amazing!
    • Movement:
      • The ability to climb ledges is quite interesting and opens up possibilities in the way of gameplay.
      • Not being able to sprint makes it feel a bit too slow, right now it’s quite hard to avoid attacks with footwork.
      • Crouching seems rather useless as compared to chivalry, your character model is still too large and easy to target.
    • Attacks:
      • They feel slow and somewhat clunky with most classes, especially the taurant.
      • I noticed while playing against bots that they could easily hit me as I riposte or combo which felt slighty annoying. Example, I as a taurant blocks and ripostes from an Alcemancers attack, he then manages to hit me once or twice as I’ve hit him with my riposte + tried to combo.

    Teamdamage would be great as a factor too, although I can understand that the abilities could become quite the pain in the ass.

    Art style:
    Contrary to what many people seem to think about the game’s direction of artstyle I myself enjoy it a lot.

    Performance:
    I’ve noticed a few FPS drops with certain spells, example the one which you can take control of as a Alcemancer. But otherwise the game has kept a steady 60 fps for me so far.

    Just as Gauntlet mentioned earlier, I assumed that the melee would be very similar to that of chivalry. The abilities on the other hand were a lot more fun and interesting than I had previously thought they would be, some of them were a bit too slow or had somewhat glitchy animations (Enthropist healing wave for example); but that’s to be expected from an early alpha game.

    Either way, it would be really nice to get more stats about the weapons etc, similar to the spreadsheet wolfy made of CMW weapons. At least for me it’s easier to judge weapons and abilities that way. Knowing the exact damage, the exact time to windup/release etc.

    I ran into a few issues myself as I played, and I’m not sure if all of them or any of them have been reported but a tiny list of some things:

    • The Enthropist carpet disappeared if I looked down as I tried to use the ability for it, not sure if it happened every time, but quite often.
    • Enthropist healing wave ignored the cooldown when I used it.
    • Alcemancer’s attacks go through your parry at close range, as I mentioned in the parry section.

    That’s all I have for now, and I can’t wait to see this game progress all the way until release, as of right now it looks really really interesting and has a lot of potential.



  • Alright so I am going to dump my opinions and feedback here, as well. However, I am very well aware that we are in fact testing an alpha and that most of what I am going to address is probably already on the to-do list of the devs.
    Nothing I write here is a demand, every bit of feedback and every suggestion is here on a take it or leave it basis. Also, my feedback is entirely focused on the state of the game right now, not taking into account planned or inbound changes.

    GUI
    Disregarding the main menu, which is a debug menu at best, it seems that the character and team selection screens are the most presentable at this time. With that said, they are also very pretty and inviting screens that I enjoy looking at. Aesthetically pleasing and straight to the point.
    However, I fear new players may not immediately grasp what parts of the GUI they can interact with, this may need some more work. Highlights for buttons or a prompt like “hey, click this you dummy!” would be options.

    • The GUI is very pretty. Many bright, vibrant and inviting buttons and decorations that I enjoy looking at a lot.
    • The character portraits in the class selection screen look good.
    • Gauging my ability cooldowns from the corner of my eye is very difficult. I want my eyes up front, looking at my opponent during a fight, not on my ability icons. Having a number indicating seconds left until the ability is out of cooldown, as well as having the ability “cooldown meter” filling up in a more noticeable color would help.
    • The block meter is too difficult to notice. May want to make it bigger (and move it further down a few pixels to compensate) and give its edges a bit more contrasting colors.

    Presentation
    Much like the others, I like the art style of the game and believe it works out well with the theme of the gameplay. I like the vibrant world a lot.
    However, I also feel that the world is too empty as it is.
    It is almost depressing, because there could be so much more ornamentation to show off the mystical and fantastical world you have created, instead there are just many plain, near monochrome walls.

    • I like the music, fits well with the theme. I would like a volume slider, of course.
    • The game is bright and vibrant, which I like a lot.
    • The voice acting for the Alchemancer and the Entropist is superb and very enjoyable to listen to.
    • I understand your artists are going for more “broad strokes” and “plain surfaces”, but I have to say it makes some areas in the levels look very dull, even saddening. There are many spots where it just feels like some detail would help flesh out this mystical and fantastical world more and also remove that feeling of dead emptiness.
    • Character animations are fairly smooth and readable, even with my ping of 120+ on an NA server.
    • Some of the walk animations look awkward to me. The very broad stances of some of the characters look great while they’re standing still, but don’t look comfortable while they’re walking.
    • Levels could use more details in many areas.

    Gameplay
    As you can imagine, my gameplay feedback list will be the longest. This early in development is the best time to comment on the core gameplay, which will define the game as it is.
    Much like the others posting here, I believe the game has potential, but the combat does not yet entice me to play more, not the way Chivalry does. There is room for improvement that should be filled.

    • I like the impact of weapons, the dismemberment. There is weight behind my attacks and the combat is visceral, which makes landing hits very rewarding.
    • I feel slow. I feel sluggish. I don’t feel excited to go anywhere at all. I would like this to be addressed. Sprinting (even if limited) would work. Giving me more alternative movement options would also be appreciated. Movement options like a short dash, a high jump or skip, a roll, etc. I would love to flow from objective to objective. From combat to combat and most of all, around my opponents.
    • I love the z-axis movement features, like climbing up low ledges. I would love more options for parcouring through the levels like this and more options to flank enemy positions.
    • Melee combat mostly consists of block-attack-block-ability-block-attack, etc. This makes for a dull close combat experience.
    • The block meter is a welcome change from what Chivalry offers, though is currently too simplistic to be enjoyable for me.
    • I would like to have the block meter have its strength deplete as you hold your block. Similar to what holding up your shield does to your stamina in Chivalry.
    • On the subject of parries and timing, I would suggest a hybrid solution. Keep the block bar and have parries. My idea would be to have there be a short time window (maybe <300ms) right after raising your block that allows you to parry and riposte. If you block an attack after that parry window, you don’t get to riposte.
    • I don’t like the trickle damage you receive when your block strength is depleted. I would rather see the block mitigate all damage and having the depletion of the block meter make me unable to block entirely.
    • It seems very difficult to get around an enemy’s block and very difficult to make them run out of blocking strength, or telling whether they are in fact out of blocking strength.
    • I like your approach with the Vypress and the Alchemancer. They could potentially offer a very unique and dynamic playstyle. However, their lack of being able to block makes them very vulnerable up close. Considering they lack any really good escape mechanisms, which don’t also limit their offensive abilities, this is a problem. It is very easy for a melee class to rush up close to a Vypress and just spam attacks until the Vypress is dead. There is little skill involved in this and feels unrewarding for the Vypress as well as to their opponent.
    • Related to my point further above about hybrid block-parry. Have the Vypress only able to dodge an attack (and all damage?) if she “parries” an attack. Basically right clicking shortly before getting whacked in the face, perhaps with some form of limitation to it like a stamina bar. Perhaps it could even act just like the block bar, except resulting in dodges, instead of parries.
    • I like that you guys are going for something different than Chivalry. I like that this isn’t a Chivalry 1.5 and I frankly disagree with the notion of “this game should be like Chivalry with magic”. I believe that would only take away from its uniqueness. Besides, if I want to play Chivalry, I will go play Chivalry, right? Don’t get me wrong, though, I do believe mechanics from Chivalry can be carried over, but I would like to see this game to have its own strengths and not just represent an iteration of Chivalry.
    • I like that there is no team damage. I don’t want team damage in this game. There are too many AOE abilities that would make team damage a constant source of frustration, much like the Vanguard charge in Chivalry.

    And that’s all I got so far. If you read through all of this in one go, you deserve a break and a coffee. :coffee:


  • Developer

    Thanks particularly for the GUI feedback UberMann, that’s really helpful since we haven’t yet had too much of it, and the HUD/GUI are vitally important.