First impressions thread!
Tummeh last edited by Tummeh
Some good points made already! Some notes I took while playing offline against bots/using abilities and exploring the test map in the hour or so I spent, purely first impressions kind of stuff. Sorry if its a bit rambly and long winded, I just wanted to get my thoughts in full out there.
Current suggestions/issues I am having:
I found that being damaged and being at low health isn’t quite obvious enough yet. I suspect you will be adding in peripheral decals later on like in chiv, but at the moment I get hit and don’t realise when fighting because there’s not enough indication.
To add on to that, I don’t think flinch last’s long enough in its current state (not sure if this is the first hit flinch bug mentioned earlier)–some classes can get hit, recover from flinch, and then hit me before I can land the next hit in my combo (this was against bots).
The main UI is a bit clunky right now, I generally have to click things twice before it registers (could be because of UI animations?) such as when selecting a class. Related, when choosing a class, it should display whatever class you currently are rather than defaulting to the minotaur guy I think–QoL kind of situation if you just want to change abilities.
There are discrepancies between first person and third person at the moment, likely already known, but thought I’d state anyway. In first person, you can bend your body on the Y axis (such as bending backwards to reverse overhead in Chivalry or bending forward to duck while crouching)–in first person this works, but in third person you can’t bend yourself at all it seems. Makes for a rather stiff third person experience.
Queueing weapon attacks gives you too much leeway, from what I experienced and seemed to be able to reproduce. You can right click to block, press an attack key simultaneously or immediately after, have the entire block animation go through + get hit/parry, and then your attack would finally swing from that initial queuing after all that had finished, which felt really odd and delayed.
The game sometimes continues to queue attacks after you get hit too, so if you go to overhead into a combo–but get hit before the second attack in the combo, after recovering it will try to attack again.
Vypress definitely seems to be the most developed class so far, and it is definitely my favourite so far. A couple of things specifically about this class:
The mobility of some of her moves (Grappling Hook and Dash Kick especially) is so fun. I could pretty much play the game for ages just running around and getting to weird places using those moves.
That said, the grappling hook could be a bit better. It’s very clunky at the moment and loses momentum after the initial speed up too suddenly. I think if the speed is kept but gradually reduced in a more natural way it could be an even more fun ability to use.
Being able to queue abilities one after another would be pretty great too, such as queueing the Dash Kick after using Grappling Hook–at the moment I have to spam the Dash Kick ability towards the end of the Grappling Hook if I want to use it to get even further/use it to continue moving around the map.
Big picture/feel of the game kind of comments:
I feel that there is huge potential in more freedom in mobility and in the Y axis of the map. I think that jumps should be much higher to kind of convey the feeling that all directions in 3D are viable. Along with this, I think allowing mobility skills to activate while using the space bar jump would add to the mobility freedom–a lot of abilities don’t work while jumping for some reason (generally from the ground I tested–the grappling hook on Vipress is really cool when jumping off things though! More stuff like that please).
Hard to get to places and high up areas feel really cool and rewarding to get to (on the testing map, using a mix of Grappling Hook and Dash Kick to get onto the yellow chandelier things hanging from the ceiling was really fun for me)–having these kinds of places which can’t be accessed by conventional means adds so much to map design I think, and they don’t always have to be high up places without stairs or ramps–they could be areas only accessed through using a teleportation skill through a glass wall, or smashing stuff down, etc. Interaction with the map through the use of abilities adds a new dynamic to the game which goes beyond combat, and I would love to see more of that.
I haven’t played any of the maps yet other than the small test map, so what I’m saying may be redundant, but I thought I’d put it out there anyway.
Speed is definitely an issue. I imagine you will be adding sprint at a later date, but the current move speed feels very slow too–I think it could be a bit faster.
Agree with Gauntlet about the melee combat, I do think if it can feel as good and polished as Chivalry’s then that should be the goal–However, I do think some innovations could be tested. For example, I do like the new blocking a bit more than Chivalry’s simply because feinting/weapon cancelling is almost purely defensive now (Sorry people who enjoy playing with and against feints, I don’t!), but I definitely agree it needs changes such as more accurate directional blocking or something rather than being an end-all block + blocking stamina needs work.
I’m not sure if ripostes are possible in Mirage at the moment. I feel that if they are they should be made more obvious because I simply couldn’t tell. If they’re not already, I do think if implemented they should work similar to Chivalry’s parrying to activate the window needed to riposte (i.e. clicking RMB rather than holding to get a shorter block which opens the riposte window).
And lastly, just a couple of questions to better understand which direction Mirage is heading, if possible:
Will there be weapon choices for each class as in Chivalry? So far each class seems fairly unique in which weapon is used (and to add on to this, will the style of blocking be a choice? Such as choosing a dodge move instead of a blocking move when right clicking)?
Answered here kind of
If there will be no weapon choices, will there be more classes in a similar vain to MOBA’s (Smite, Dota) where each class has a general role and style of ability (Vypress’ movement vs the Minotaur’s damaging abilities vs some other classes range etc), and will more classes be released eventually leading to a diverse roster?
Or are skills the new weapons, especially since they essentially change your style of play depending on what you pick, and will there be more skills added onto the classes?
Really good alpha so far guys, I’ve had more fun with it against bots who can’t parry or use abilities in 60 mins than I ever would have in Chivalry against bots, which to me says a lot about the concepts in the game already! Once more polished I hope everything really comes together into a fun experience for everyone. KIU!
Irish Canadian last edited by
I only had a chance to play once by myself for about an hour so far with that said:
Being able to hold the block takes away from the gameplay and makes the whole dragging mechanic useless.
Sprinting - I feel like the whole being forced into the sprint takes away from gameplay. Something I’ve always enjoyed in chiv is when I’m fighting multiple enemies positioning is key and weaving and running around them to get them to do team damage or delay the next attack they get off is crucial. I feel like everyone always sprint may take away from this as well as limit player freedom. One thing you can do in DW (probably MW also) is sprint and someone and hold crouch to run at walking speed - doing this, and other tricks involving sprint to make players panic parry is always fun. (although panic parry doesn’t matter since you can hold block hey?)
One subtle thing I noticed is the characters move forward while doing melee attacks. I personally am not a fan of this because I feel it limits my options but I’m sure a lot of other games force you forward slightly while using a melee attack so we’ll have to see if it actually matters that much.
So yeah mostly just stuff others have already pointed out with regards to preferring chiv’s system of parry and sprinting to mirage’s since it seems to offer more freedom (or something like that).
The characters had the samurai from DW’s voice for their melee combat yells when attacking really quietly under their voice - that was funny - anyone else notice that?
I’ll need to play more before I can say much else but these were the big things.
Will the factions have the classes looking different from each other like mason and Agatha knights look different from each other?
Civil war for the lore again? The lore of the game seems like it’s copy and pasted from chivalry’s lore at the moment. Civil War - philosophical differences - different colours - 2 factions - etc
I’ve only play online with other people for about 30-60 mins, so I’ll keep my first impression very short and add details whenever necessary.
Overall I like the new mechanics, it feels very fresh compared to Chivalry. Im not able to say how original the combat mechanics are compared to other games as I own very few “fantasy” and “magic” games.
I feel that the textures in their current state look a bit mushy and lack detail (this may ofcourse be due to the alpha status) but I think that more texture details could do a lot in terms of crispness/sharpness and ultimately depth perception. I will not criticise the overall art style as this is completely subjective.
As written above, quite unique and fun. Here’s just a small bit of critique. Overall it came across as if the classes do too little damage per hit, across the board. Occasionaly it took excrutiatingly long to kill even the lightest of classes. Furthermore, the mage classes seem to be the be the weakest by far (especialy the tall guy with wings). In terms of combat all the classes could use a buff when it comes to damage, especialy the ones that rely heavily on magic.
Performance was quite good. GPU usage was in the high 80% margin and the the temps were similiar to the ones in Chiv, despite the upgrade to UE4. Next time I’ll have to play closer attention to the FPS counter, but it must have been in the 60’s during my gameplay time.
Needless to say, all this is just a personal oppinion.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for all the feedback peeps!
We’re going to try to organize another playtest next week with hopefully a few more people involved to give you a chance to play through a few of the different maps and modes. I’ll be sending out a doodle so we can pick a time that works for the highest number of people.
Tummeh last edited by
Played with other people for the first time yesterday–unfortunately the ping latency to an American server was quite atrocious, so I really can’t comment much on fighting other people beyond I bet it was just as annoying for them to try to fight me with skills and swings going through me as it was for me trying to fight them :crying_cat_face: Hopefully we can get some more EU people in the alpha and an EU server up so us EU folk can have a bit of a go with a more accurate representation of the fighting.
On the game modes, the ones we played were quite fun I thought, even with my lag. We only had 2v2 and 3v2 games for the most part, so getting a full 6v6 or 12v12 experience wasn’t quite the same, but even then the maps were over perhaps a bit too quickly.
I enjoyed the CTF map the most I think (Pick up the flag from the middle, try to push into the enemies side, if you die the enemy has an opportunity to pick up the flag and push to your side). Right now I think it would be far too easy for one side to get the first advantage and then kind of steamroll the rest of the map if the teams were bigger–especially if unevenly matched in skill, the game would last not 5 minutes.
I think a way to improve that map however is make it longer both in time and in physical map length by adding ‘check points’ through the map kind of like a Rugby match (idk if American football does this too?) where you get the flag so far and then it starts spawning from that position and you spawn closer to it, but if the other team pushes back to a different checkpoint then your spawn is moved back and theirs forward, if you catch my drift.
The new LTS/bomb planting mode was interesting. With more speed and mobility abilities I think it could be quite a fun mode. Not being familiar with the map hurts my first impression a bit of course, since no matter whether we went to A or B the other team seemed to know straight away which made any tactical decision to go to the other a bit moot, but maybe that was just a product of not knowing the map properly and the teams being so small that we couldn’t really hold each other off to go plant the bomb. A similar TDM mode could be quite fun too. Definitely need to change it from ‘plant the bomb’ to something more magical :P
We played a TO map too but I really don’t have much to say about it–I think they pushed a ram (or floating orb thing), captured some points, and pushed it some more–it was a tad short perhaps, and a bit uninteresting in terms of things to do/objective to complete. Again, being unfamiliar with the map didn’t help, but it seemed quite okay from what I could tell.
We did get some interesting plays via abilities though, Hannes was laying down the Genie Carpet Guy’s red wall a bunch (Which reminds me of Ymir’s wall ability from Smite–a great defensive ability which can save so many lives), managing to block off some corridors at some points making us find alternate routes to stop the cart which was quite interesting. I’ve got to admit, at this point, the defensive and CC abilities interest me far more than damaging ones–at the moment they don’t stop you from playing, but change how you play/how aggressive you are which is quite cool.
With the grapple/pulling abilities and the knock down/flinch abilities it felt like there wasn’t enough time to get a hit in before the victim recovered. I think if they get by an ability like that and fail to block or dodge it, it should lead to some sort of attack (especially the grappling ability) otherwise the skill shot (precision aiming ability as opposed to auto-lockon ability) is a bit wasted beyond being a slight inconvenience.
Looking forward to the next build!
Here’s my 2 cents about the test session from yesterday night. (17.03.16)
Despite the high ping and the game’s alpha status I found it more fun to play than I initialy expected. After playing the game with 4-6 players for the first time I realised that there are a lot of ways in which you can engage in creative teamplay. This includes setting down magic walls, healing teammates and so forth. At one point we talked about how nice it would be to trap an enemy inside of 4 magic walls and then kill him with magic. Something like this could be very rewarding if you have the proper teammates.
Other points to adress are the healing, team damage, the alchemancer and the magic mechanics.
Yesterday someone brought up that the healing speed could be a bit faster. We agreed that, while the healing speed might need some slight tweaking, its very important to not remove the incentive for teammates to heal other players. An increase in healing speed will probably punish those classes most that do the least damage anyway.
After playing with quite a few people I see exactly why Tm Dmg is not enabled. About half of my kills would have been teamkills, had it been enabled. I think team damage might work in the future, but not like in Chivalry. Perhaps it would be possible to punish a team damaging player by removing life from him everytime he hits a teammate. (i.e If you cause 40 points worth of teamdamage to another player, you will be punished by getting 40 points removed from your own character. If this is too harsh its always possible to just remove of a fraction of the teamdamage from your own character (ex: 50% = 20 hp))
Honestly hope I remembered the name correctly. Its the tall character that can use wings. This guy seems to be the weakest class so far. His magic attacks can kill people, but he’s extremely dependent on his teammates keeping enemies from closing in on him, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Non the less I think that he needs a way to block incoming melee/magic attacks if all else fails. Perhaps it would be possible to allow this character to use his fists, as he does not have any melee weapons anyway? If you want to keep this character as a ranged class exclusively, then a 5 second magic shield might help?
The Magic and its “reload” times:
Since magic is a big part of the game im pretty sure you guys already considered this in the design process, but what do you think about combining all the magic into a single “magic bar” like it is commonly found in RPG’s, or even the stamina bar in Chiv. This may allow the player to be more flexible with the use of his special abilities. A character might be able to spawn 2 boulders in sequence without having to wait for a reload, but in return the magic bar would take twice as long to refill (Magic bar = 100 points worth of magic abilities. 1 boulder might take 50 points, etc). But as I said earlier, you probably have your current magic system for a reason.
Please dont get me wrong, as the current system works quite well. This suggestion is more of a luxury feature down the road to provide more flexibility for the players’ use of magic, and its nothing that needs fixing per se.
A lot of this feedback is probably too big to be a simple “fix” or “improvement”, but I hope it might help in the long run.
Thanks for reading,
Butternutthesquash last edited by
I haven’t had much time to play much, so my first impressions will probably be pretty useless, but here they are nonetheless!
My biggest critique is it’s too overwhelming, but this could be the unfamiliarity with the game. I felt that I was just button mashing, which is one of the best aspects of Chivalry in that you don’t do that (if you git gud). I’m not sure how much of the mechanics will change as the game develops, but it would be nice to have a bit more focus on melee. Magic will be a great addition to the games you guys have already developed, but your following of Chivalry fans might be disappointed if they don’t have at least some similar fighting mechanics (please no vanguard charge). The reason why Chivalry tops many players’ Steam games for number of hours played is the melee – Mirage doesn’t have that yet, and I felt myself getting bored very quickly. This game feels more similar to Deadliest Warrior to me in terms of melee, where you just spam swing.
I need to spend more time with the characters and understand the magic, but as a beginner, I felt that with six different classes, each with at least six different abilities was way too overwhelming. It would be nice to have maybe more abilities (like weapons in chivalry) where you can unlock spells as you rank up, but start with a few basics to get the feel for each class before you are just dumped into a bunch of random button mashing. The magic seems like the showcase of this game, and it seemed too slow and confusing to rely on for most characters.
Please add a sprint button! I hated dying even more because it meant I had to baby step back to the battle field. And please tell me there will be voice commands, because that is the only reason I play chivalry (jk, for the ordah)
I’ll do my best to be there for other alpha events, but until May, I’m in the hell period most grad students know as the end of the semester. I’ll make sure my next comments are constructive :P
We’re testing out “checkpoints” in a pushable map and it seem to work okayish. We find that these sorts of things end up seesawing back and forth as control changes hands. We have since reduced our push and deliver distances to be quick scores to avoid this.
We’re really liking the LTS modes, they do a lot to make people thing about team composition and working together. The map we played is a test level, to try it out.
We’re trying to add more context to the maps so it feels like you’re doing something, very work in progress.
We’ve actually already played with most of your suggestions in the past.
Re: healing: this is a matter of tuning. We want to encourage healers (vigilist and entropist at the moment), this is currently not supported in our score system in any way however.
Re: team damage: we did an internal playtest with team damage on (like you suggest, not full strength). We’re on the fence about it at the moment, on one hand it makes players think about their actions more; but it also adds some confusion to the combat as friendly hitting you pops up hit indicators, making it very hard to tell where you should be focusing your attention in a fight. I’d be interested in getting you guys a build with team damage on to see what you think about it in action.
Re: Alcemancer: Our plan is to have this class exclusively ranged. His RMB force push can actually redirect enemy projectiles and his 3rd ability slot is reserved for evasion abilities (teleport/fly). We’ve found this class is very sensitive to tuning, if abilities are too strong he’s an unstoppable killing machine, if too weak he’s completely useless. Work in Progress.
Re: Magic and reloads: We use to actually have a “mana pool” that all abilities drained from, on top of a timed cool down. we found that this led to players dumping their pool into a fight as they approached and then dying before being able to use them again.
Your name is horrible to type and breaks my brain.
You have confirmed our greatest fears with the over whelming part. The plan is to unlock abilities as you progress kind of like the weapons in chiv. So newbies will start with a much reduced number of options from the get go. We’re also planning on some sort of light tutorial of some sort to teach new players the basics.
We had a spring button which I greatly miss, it sometimes feels slow to step in to hit an opponent in a fight. WIP.
Since the game was in developement for quite a while now (no clue as to how long exactly), I expected that you guys had already tested a lot of the ideas I mentioned.
Trying out a team dmg build would surely be interesting. Regarding the “mana pool” abilities: thats an interesting point, havnt thought about that. That also goes back to my guess that the current magic/mana system is in the game for a reason, and now I know why.
I think I might know what you mean. First of all there are 6 instead of 4 unique classes in the game, and every class has between 6 and 9 (?) magic abilities to chose from. That might take some getting used to, but coming from the simulation corner of games I would much rather prefer a game with a lot of depth over a shallow game that takes only 30 minutes to learn. Ofcourse one must also not confuse “depth” with “unnecessary complexity”.
Maybe it would be possible to lock 3 of the classes until the player has enough experience to unlock the rest? That way you can get half of the classes off the players mind, which might also ensure a smoother progression.
Xylvion last edited by
I have not yet played multiplayer, I will most likely make another post about that experience later on! I will probably compare the game a lot to chivalry below.
- The ability to hold a parry is sort of dull and removes from the depth of the game. CMW was far superior in this area as it works right now.
- Not being able to parry with every class is somewhat annoying.
- Instead of having a parry held up forever, it would probably be better with a system similar to that of chivalry where you use timing.
- I noticed that you can’t parry Alcemancers at facehug for some reason.
- Being able to block all types of attacks is amazing!
- The ability to climb ledges is quite interesting and opens up possibilities in the way of gameplay.
- Not being able to sprint makes it feel a bit too slow, right now it’s quite hard to avoid attacks with footwork.
- Crouching seems rather useless as compared to chivalry, your character model is still too large and easy to target.
- They feel slow and somewhat clunky with most classes, especially the taurant.
- I noticed while playing against bots that they could easily hit me as I riposte or combo which felt slighty annoying. Example, I as a taurant blocks and ripostes from an Alcemancers attack, he then manages to hit me once or twice as I’ve hit him with my riposte + tried to combo.
Teamdamage would be great as a factor too, although I can understand that the abilities could become quite the pain in the ass.
Contrary to what many people seem to think about the game’s direction of artstyle I myself enjoy it a lot.
I’ve noticed a few FPS drops with certain spells, example the one which you can take control of as a Alcemancer. But otherwise the game has kept a steady 60 fps for me so far.
Just as Gauntlet mentioned earlier, I assumed that the melee would be very similar to that of chivalry. The abilities on the other hand were a lot more fun and interesting than I had previously thought they would be, some of them were a bit too slow or had somewhat glitchy animations (Enthropist healing wave for example); but that’s to be expected from an early alpha game.
Either way, it would be really nice to get more stats about the weapons etc, similar to the spreadsheet wolfy made of CMW weapons. At least for me it’s easier to judge weapons and abilities that way. Knowing the exact damage, the exact time to windup/release etc.
I ran into a few issues myself as I played, and I’m not sure if all of them or any of them have been reported but a tiny list of some things:
- The Enthropist carpet disappeared if I looked down as I tried to use the ability for it, not sure if it happened every time, but quite often.
- Enthropist healing wave ignored the cooldown when I used it.
- Alcemancer’s attacks go through your parry at close range, as I mentioned in the parry section.
That’s all I have for now, and I can’t wait to see this game progress all the way until release, as of right now it looks really really interesting and has a lot of potential.
UberMann last edited by
Alright so I am going to dump my opinions and feedback here, as well. However, I am very well aware that we are in fact testing an alpha and that most of what I am going to address is probably already on the to-do list of the devs.
Nothing I write here is a demand, every bit of feedback and every suggestion is here on a take it or leave it basis. Also, my feedback is entirely focused on the state of the game right now, not taking into account planned or inbound changes.
Disregarding the main menu, which is a debug menu at best, it seems that the character and team selection screens are the most presentable at this time. With that said, they are also very pretty and inviting screens that I enjoy looking at. Aesthetically pleasing and straight to the point.
However, I fear new players may not immediately grasp what parts of the GUI they can interact with, this may need some more work. Highlights for buttons or a prompt like “hey, click this you dummy!” would be options.
- The GUI is very pretty. Many bright, vibrant and inviting buttons and decorations that I enjoy looking at a lot.
- The character portraits in the class selection screen look good.
- Gauging my ability cooldowns from the corner of my eye is very difficult. I want my eyes up front, looking at my opponent during a fight, not on my ability icons. Having a number indicating seconds left until the ability is out of cooldown, as well as having the ability “cooldown meter” filling up in a more noticeable color would help.
- The block meter is too difficult to notice. May want to make it bigger (and move it further down a few pixels to compensate) and give its edges a bit more contrasting colors.
Much like the others, I like the art style of the game and believe it works out well with the theme of the gameplay. I like the vibrant world a lot.
However, I also feel that the world is too empty as it is.
It is almost depressing, because there could be so much more ornamentation to show off the mystical and fantastical world you have created, instead there are just many plain, near monochrome walls.
- I like the music, fits well with the theme. I would like a volume slider, of course.
- The game is bright and vibrant, which I like a lot.
- The voice acting for the Alchemancer and the Entropist is superb and very enjoyable to listen to.
- I understand your artists are going for more “broad strokes” and “plain surfaces”, but I have to say it makes some areas in the levels look very dull, even saddening. There are many spots where it just feels like some detail would help flesh out this mystical and fantastical world more and also remove that feeling of dead emptiness.
- Character animations are fairly smooth and readable, even with my ping of 120+ on an NA server.
- Some of the walk animations look awkward to me. The very broad stances of some of the characters look great while they’re standing still, but don’t look comfortable while they’re walking.
- Levels could use more details in many areas.
As you can imagine, my gameplay feedback list will be the longest. This early in development is the best time to comment on the core gameplay, which will define the game as it is.
Much like the others posting here, I believe the game has potential, but the combat does not yet entice me to play more, not the way Chivalry does. There is room for improvement that should be filled.
- I like the impact of weapons, the dismemberment. There is weight behind my attacks and the combat is visceral, which makes landing hits very rewarding.
- I feel slow. I feel sluggish. I don’t feel excited to go anywhere at all. I would like this to be addressed. Sprinting (even if limited) would work. Giving me more alternative movement options would also be appreciated. Movement options like a short dash, a high jump or skip, a roll, etc. I would love to flow from objective to objective. From combat to combat and most of all, around my opponents.
- I love the z-axis movement features, like climbing up low ledges. I would love more options for parcouring through the levels like this and more options to flank enemy positions.
- Melee combat mostly consists of block-attack-block-ability-block-attack, etc. This makes for a dull close combat experience.
- The block meter is a welcome change from what Chivalry offers, though is currently too simplistic to be enjoyable for me.
- I would like to have the block meter have its strength deplete as you hold your block. Similar to what holding up your shield does to your stamina in Chivalry.
- On the subject of parries and timing, I would suggest a hybrid solution. Keep the block bar and have parries. My idea would be to have there be a short time window (maybe <300ms) right after raising your block that allows you to parry and riposte. If you block an attack after that parry window, you don’t get to riposte.
- I don’t like the trickle damage you receive when your block strength is depleted. I would rather see the block mitigate all damage and having the depletion of the block meter make me unable to block entirely.
- It seems very difficult to get around an enemy’s block and very difficult to make them run out of blocking strength, or telling whether they are in fact out of blocking strength.
- I like your approach with the Vypress and the Alchemancer. They could potentially offer a very unique and dynamic playstyle. However, their lack of being able to block makes them very vulnerable up close. Considering they lack any really good escape mechanisms, which don’t also limit their offensive abilities, this is a problem. It is very easy for a melee class to rush up close to a Vypress and just spam attacks until the Vypress is dead. There is little skill involved in this and feels unrewarding for the Vypress as well as to their opponent.
- Related to my point further above about hybrid block-parry. Have the Vypress only able to dodge an attack (and all damage?) if she “parries” an attack. Basically right clicking shortly before getting whacked in the face, perhaps with some form of limitation to it like a stamina bar. Perhaps it could even act just like the block bar, except resulting in dodges, instead of parries.
- I like that you guys are going for something different than Chivalry. I like that this isn’t a Chivalry 1.5 and I frankly disagree with the notion of “this game should be like Chivalry with magic”. I believe that would only take away from its uniqueness. Besides, if I want to play Chivalry, I will go play Chivalry, right? Don’t get me wrong, though, I do believe mechanics from Chivalry can be carried over, but I would like to see this game to have its own strengths and not just represent an iteration of Chivalry.
- I like that there is no team damage. I don’t want team damage in this game. There are too many AOE abilities that would make team damage a constant source of frustration, much like the Vanguard charge in Chivalry.
And that’s all I got so far. If you read through all of this in one go, you deserve a break and a coffee. :coffee:
TBPhoenix last edited by
Thanks particularly for the GUI feedback UberMann, that’s really helpful since we haven’t yet had too much of it, and the HUD/GUI are vitally important.
lemonater47 last edited by lemonater47
So I finally got to play this with a few people. 2v2 Me and Yarnu vs lillboots and Tyoson on the training map.
Also forgive me for not knowing any of the names of the classes, weapons and abilities. I’m a bit ill today and I want to write this now as close as possible to when I actually played.
Performance. I personally didn’t get the best performance but my computer is rather old and I am planning on upgrading the graphics card at least. But it’s currently:
CPU: i5 3570k @ 3.4GHz.
Motherboard: Some gigabyte thing with a Z77 chipset to take full advantage of the CPU.
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 5850 1GB limited Modern warfare 2 edition.
RAM: 8GB @ 1600mhz.
Storage. A single western digital cavier black HDD 1GB and its compeltely full.
PSU: God knows but it runs everything.
Don’t know if graphics settings changed anything as they didn’t seem to. But it was running at around 30fps sometimes dipping below slightly and sometimes staying above 40 for extended periods of time. I can however run chivalry almost maxed out at a consistent 62 most of the time. It’s almost certainly my graphics card which has finally reached the stage where it can’t run things after 7 years of service. Star Wars battlefront said fuck you when I tried to play that with it.
Now the gameplay. I hate fantasy shit. But damn this game is pretty fun. Took me a while to adjust to the combat. But once you get the timings of things down you can have proper duels. Had some good 2v1s as well. However I don’t like the idea of two classes not being able to party. Especially that double swords lady. The alchemiseer or whatever I understand is to be more of a support class and has some rather nice “get me outta here” abilities. But duel swords is in the thick of if. Or at least dueling someone. Movement speed doesn’t seem to be enough. Though maybe you intend a different style of play.
Shield and spear person. Favorite class. Damage output feels a bit low but they have the most health and good defense so it doesn’t really matter. And throwing a shield at someone’s face is hilarious. Good Melee range in the class too.
The big two handed mace ox looking guy. Good Melee fighter. But I felt some of his abilities to be a tad weak. Particular the large melee swing (the one that doesn’t launch and earthquake projectile). Doesn’t do much damage. And that aerial strike press shift ability as Well. It’s charge ability is useful, spin move is well done and throwing rocks at people is amazing.
The other class I played a hit was that woman with the one handed sword, the land mines and the hook. That combination right there. The most OP thing in the game lol. Plant a bunch of mines down in the same place, grapple Someone, all your mines go off and you get two free hits on them where they can’t move or block. Kills every class. The fact you can’t damage yourself in the game is a major issue. However I used the other abilities as well. That black hole is quite fun to use to group people together. Usual in combo with the ox dude. That turret you place on the ground took a bit of getting used to. Shift to fire and you aim at people. Explodes. But you can block those projectiles and destroy the thing so that’s good. And I used that wall thing with no description. Distortion field or something. That is very useful. Blocks some projectiles. But for most others it slows projectiles down which is awesome. So you have time to dodge. Which I think is a better alternative to straight up blocking.
Lack of team damage. At first I thought it was a bad idea. But as I played I realised that the game would be team damage central with all the area of effect abilities going off. So maybe it’s for the best. However, the lack of damage done against yourself is another issue. I think you should do damage against yourself with AOE weapons. Simply to avoid cheese kamakazi tactics except they don’t result in your death.
The listen server system doesn’t quite seem to be working. The only way to reliably get everyone in game is if we play the training map. Can’t do a TO listen server easily. Only managed 2 people in. It gave me a disconnect then just wouldn’t let me join full stop. With any method. Starting a dedicated server would have solved this issue probably. But listen servers with the party system are so much easier.
Just popping in to note how incredibly useful all of this feedback is. Definitely some of the most useful stuff we’ve heard so far from anyone who’s played Mirage - so please keep it coming!
Sheepy last edited by
Had a chance to play with a few people on a hosted server on free for all. I must say it was quite fun when we got into it.
I think I actually enjoyed most of the classes apart from the flying carpet guy and the mine lady (Not sure what their names were) simply because they feel underdeveloped to me (have less skills to pick from) The floaty carpet guys E attack (the projectile one that rains more projectiles) cooldown icon is bugged after using it so you aren’t sure when it’s ready for use again.
I like the fact that you can gain some HP after killing enemies seems pretty useful, I like how the characters and the maps look so far and some of the skills are pretty fun to chain together already. Some examples… placing down a mine and pulling the enemy towards you, being the floaty carpet guy and putting down a wall whilst raining projectiles on them. The shield lady, pushing the enemy back with one skill and then throwing the magical shield as they fly back. I also must say I had a lot of fun as the mage guy (second selection on the menu) levitating to a spot that wasn’t easily found and then sending out orbs to control and fly into people.
I feel that some of the cooldowns need to be reduced and some of the recovery times. It felt a little hard to chain attacks and skills together sometimes as you had to wait until stabbing again or before you could use a skill that was ready to use. Some skills were also very obvious and easy to avoid (The shield ladies jump in the air and slam down attack for example was very slow and easy to walk out of before she hit the ground) I feel skills like dashes which are purely for mobility could have shorter cooldowns.
As tumm said I think you need a clearer visual on the screen of when you are hit as I barely noticed sometimes and had to check my hp. As many people have mentioned, It still feels a little slow to me, walking around the map in particular feels a little tedious even with the second wind thing and attacks do feel a little sluggish.
I liked the voice commands so far and the layout of selecting your skills and characters. I wouldn’t say that the two different sides have memorable names like agatha and mason however but that could just be a case of me playing more.
I haven’t played any TO maps yet so I can’t comment on that.
A few questions (if you can answer them)
- Are there going to be any other weapons or would that be the weapon you always have to use?
- Are you going to make people unlock the next skill or weapon like you did in chivalry?
- How many skills will each class be able to pick from?
So far seems fun though and it ran well on my computer at least! I’ve probably forgotten a bunch of stuff but I’ll make another post later.
Cyanide last edited by
All of my opinions have already been echoed.
Please do not allow held blocks to go on any longer. They eliminate the point of , and the flow of, combat. CFTP needs to be smoother and , even in attempting to test how the game would play without held block, their is no parry recovery obviously so it becomes far too easy to crutch on it. I think with parry to parry and player skill a held block is incredibly hurtful to the game. Lacks dynamic gameplay.
I know you meant it to be in this build. I like where everything is going and there are many very intelligent people here articulating the same opinions I already hold. I will update later. Just my impressions after 5 hours.
Exile last edited by
I’m with Cyanide here; it’s all been echoed by the previous posters. However, one thing that I’m having some trouble reconciling is the disconnect between the magic and melee systems. Simply put, it feels like there is no cohesion, as though you’re supposed to use one or the other, rather than both. I would absolutely consider more of an integration between the two realms; combo-spell, feinting spells, maybe a melee-range spell…there’s probably other ways to handle it as well, but as it stands, they just don’t feel like they gel the way they could and should. That also may be by design, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Thus far only played a few hours of ffa with a couple of other players and have largely enjoyed my time. Just going to reel off the notes that I put down whilst playing, can see that many of them have already been said, but confirmation can be no bad thing. Excellent point from Exile on the cohesion between magic and melee.
First off it feels like the game is trapped in the middle of being fast or slow paced. The ability to vault into windows and over ledges, even from mid-air leads to a very exciting freedom of movement and adds so much to the flow and feel of the game. However, with the lack of a sprint and the overall run speed feeling incredibly slow, it seems that the full commitment to a fast paced game hasn’t been made, which I feel it should be.
Keeping with the speed of the game, all melee attacks feel very sluggish and lacking in momentum. Almost all projectiles feel this way too, perhaps to make them easier to parry, but with the ability to just hold rmb, this seems very unnecessary. With everything being so slow, no parry window and seemingly no real parry box, in melee or with spells, it is very hard to deal damage to people. The reason that this worries me so much, is me and the people I have played with are new to the game, obviously. Yes we have experience in Chivalry, which no doubt aids a little in learning the mechanics, but I feel that two, or even a group of experienced players fighting, could make for very laborious fights. When you finally do deal damage to someone, if they create enough distance between you and them, they can heal, quickly. Not sure why the heal function is present at all, for mine, just increasing the base heal speed would be much better.
When it comes to the actual combat mechanics, first hit flinch is excellent, as is being able to flinch or parry abilities that are used. The main gripe I have with the combat at the moment is the queuing up of attacks and parries. You combo two attacks, get flinched during the first, then the second attack happens after you leave recovery from the hit you took anyway. This just feels so strange and I guess is the main reason that it is seemingly very hard to feint to parry, because I naturally combo attacks. Not sure if the windows need adjusting, or just your queue being reset once damage is taken, however it is in Chivalry I guess. Leaving release at the moment also feels very harsh, with regards to the turncap. On many occasions I find myself spinning 360 after a side stab attempt gets parried, it looks very similar to when you desync in Chivalry.
Having a lot of fun with the game so far, plenty of variation in classes and each one has a nice selection of abilities. The ffa map we’ve played on (market?) is excellent. In this game I feel it is very important to have levels to the terrain. Playing on mass expanses of flat ground is not something this game would be suited to, and I think this map does a great job of keeping that freedom of movement and not being too open.
I understand that 1v1 combat may not be the main focus of this game, but it is inescapable and fundamentally very important to a game such as this. As I have said, at the moment it feels extremely hard to deal damage to someone. Perhaps something as simple as adding a parry window will fix this, but I am not sure it would.
ColonelAxeman last edited by
So I got in for the first time last night - didn’t get a chance to play with anyone, so these are just my initial impressions from running around the training map.
The combat at this stage does not feel fluid, and the weapons don’t feel that different, except for tauranga. without actually having someone to fight, I can’t tell if this is just animations (which may be WIP) speed, or what.
Further to that point, is that magic does not seem to weave into melee combat very well as others have said. It could just be that I couldn’t see how it connects, but it felt like there was a definite switch. If you guys can find a way for melee combat to flow seamlessly into magic an back again, then it could be amazing.
As a general trend, I found that I was often wondering why I couldn’t do what I was trying to do. The clearest example would be the Alchemancer (I think?) with the dodge instead of parry. As far as I can tell the only indicator of ‘cooldown’ is the last of the smokey whisps disappearing, which wasn’t intuitive and definitely made the game feel unresponsive until I worked that out. If there’s a character that can’t parry (I won’t comment on this until I’ve fought with her) then the player needs to know exactly what I going on at any given instant.
I’m really not sure about the lack of sprint. Most FPS games have this feature and I think most players will sorely miss its absence. I can’t comment on how it affects combat until I’ve tried it. I will say that the acceleration mechanic is a cool idea, but ultimately it’s removing control from the player. Chivalry let us move precisely to dodge attack and land our own, and being able to control our speed helped this.
Things I did really enjoy were pressing K for customisation at any time (but this does need a rotate), holding space to climb, and the art style.
I’ll try and get some combat done toys weekend and I’ll post more.
YarnuTheDog last edited by
@ColonelAxeman Is that the same Colonel Axeman from the AUS community? Matey, our little gang is growing it seems, we occasionally hop on and get a few of us playing.
You must play with REAL people, the experience is VERY different when you play with real people. I dont mean 1v1 duels necessarily but rather having a partner to work with, thats when the combat really shines. I do get your point about a seamless connection between melee/magic, hopefully that will be worked on, we have made numerous posts in the ALPHA chat group about that.