General Feedback Build 49008

  • I believe TBS is on the right track for this game. The changes to the combat (timed parries and smaller window) have done wonders for the melee gameplay, and the return of sprint is welcomed.

    It seems you guys are experimenting with toggle and held modifier keys? Example: If I tap Shift I will toggle sprint, where if I hold it will not toggle but function so long as the key is held. This is also currently the same for alternate striking, where if I tap alt I toggle alt stance / attacks, but if I hold it, it acts as a held modifier key. This is very clunky and needs to be separated, I usually tap alt at the same time as I hit my attack key, but I want the key to function so that it only performs alt swings for when my finger is actively touching the alt key. With this key tapping habit of mine, when I tap alt it will toggle me into an alt stance, and this is very frustrating for when I don’t want to perform an alt attack anymore.

    In this build feints are extremely difficult to distinguish from real attacks. This is a multifaceted problem and with a few simple changes this can be mostly rectified.

    • Sound - Currently when performing an attack, the grunt sound plays as the windup is occurring. This grunt sound should only play when the target is in release. Whatever checks you put into Chivalry should also be done to prevent late feints from playing the grunt sound / release animation despite the attack being feinted (this occurs in Deadliest Warrior, and so I bring this up to prevent a reoccurring problem).

    • Animation - Animations are always a work in progress, but it is important to make sure that feinted attacks do not snap to a position, but rather retract more slowly. Fast snapping movements in feints creates the illusion of an attack in progress, and this should be minimized. Similarly the idle pose of a character should not appear to ever be an attack stance, as well as sprint. This was a problem most notably in Chivalry for brandistock lmb attack and in Deadliest Warrior for Naginata, whose idle animations could be misinterpreted for a stab attack when going from walk to sprint (tapping shift key). In the future I would like to go more thoroughly into animations and point out problem ones, but off the top of my head I can note that Taurant feints seemed particularly prone to breaking and hiding the real attack.

    On the balance of feints I think their current implementation is bordering on that overpowered feeling they had in Chivalry, but not entirely. The movement speed and having classes with movement abilities gives the player more tools than ever to avoid the dreaded facehug feint. When playing Taurant I felt most vulnerable to feints because he had the least tools to work with to avoid being feinted, while playing a Vigilist being feinted at seemed pointless because of the held block. I think it is too soon to judge what role offensive feinting will have in this game, and I think it is important to try and avoid the stab feint meta of Chivalry.

    • Classes

    Alchemancer: Can parry this build and this is welcomed! I think it is important to bring all classes into the melee in some way, so that these classes can play independently of each other, but still have weaknesses that are compensated by teamwork. I’m not sure if this is something I should be adding to bug reports, but in this build Alchemancer RMB parry also does 2 points of damage to anyone in front of him, from a moderate distance away (outside of melee reach). I’m not quite sure why his defense ability should be doing damage without deflecting any projectiles.

    Taurant: When performing his spinning sweep attack, if the attack hits an opponents block / parry immediately as the attack begins, the opponent has time to land a riposte before the end of the animation / while the players camera is in the final stage of the spin. This is because currently the sweep attack only does one check per player struck, instead of multiple, despite the attack having two spins.
    Potential solutions to this problem

      1. Make the attack check the same player twice if they’re in range during both parts of the attack, the first and second spin.
      1. Make the attack perform only one spin instead of two, shortening the animation time.

    Tinker: Currently in love with the ‘halostab’ attack, this is a prime example of what kind of abilities we should see more of in this game to help add flavor to the melee and integrate magic as part of the melee fight.

    Vigilist: After blocking an attack, the Vigilist drops her shield. I do not believe it should be this way, as it’s particularly annoying when fighting multiple opponents and trying to block multiple projectiles from Alchemancer.

  • Developer

    Glad to hear, still have a lot of groundwork to be done, the feedback and testing with you guys is super helpful!

    Feinting is doing horrible things to our animations right now, still a lot to figure out with feints and how powerful they should be,. Definitely don’t want them to be as unreactable as in chiv however.
    We’re also gonna experiment with making shoves perform a super short range version of itself when used during an active parry state as a counter to facehugging in general, feints in chiv were necessary but I hope we can get to a point in Mirage where they don’t need to be as powerful to keep the engagement times low and more ways to deal with them.

    Vigilists parry is a known issue
    Alchemancer parry was an experiment to combine forcepush and parry, will try just a regular parry after pax (will be just a regular forcepush next build due to missing animations).
    Whirlwind issue is known, feature in the works to solve it (we can adjust stagger times based on the remaining time of a state like release to make sure the initiative stays right for early and late hits)

    Will be trying some more stuff with the toggle functionality, it’s very barebones but it has potential.
    What I like about it is that you don’t have to hold alt to perform an alt swing, it’s awkward to hold it while also holding shift and moving around, it takes away from other buttons like jumping which in Mirage you should always be ready to do.
    Alt mode:
    should reset on starting an attack
    should reset at the end of an attack if nothing was queued
    +more misc fixes for input issues

    Basically you’ll press it once during an attack to enter the alt attack mode for the duration of your current action.
    If needed we’ll add an option for it but want to test a few more changes to it first.

  • Developer

    Movement speed was also kicked up a fair bit this build, we were testing the 2 extremes so curious how you guys feet about it on the high end. Movement speed being too high is one of the biggest contributors to the combat feeling sloppy and we’ll turn it down either way for the next build.

  • @Vesros said:

    Movement speed was also kicked up a fair bit this build, we were testing the 2 extremes so curious how you guys feet about it on the high end. Movement speed being too high is one of the biggest contributors to the combat feeling sloppy and we’ll turn it down either way for the next build.

    After playing around a bit more, I can comfortably say I’m happy with the movement speed as is. I think any slower might create a sluggish feeling to the game. Thematically I think this game should aim for higher speeds than Chivalry, because of the magic and other fun moves you have access to. Wall jumping (when it comes) just wouldn’t feel right if you didn’t have good movement speed with it.

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