Feedback on the mechanics and animations. (Build 52101)



  • With the update there are a few new elements to the game such as wall jumping and torso movement, but for some reason the game feels more random right now and there are a few things I’m rather annoyed by.


    Parry

    The single most important game mechanic in a game like this. It just feels off atm, if at facehug and I turn slightly to the right to parry an incoming taurant lmb it will still hit me as I instead should’ve almost turned my back towards the enemy. I assume this has something to do with the fact that you can now intentionally miss, which I feel is a stupid decision and has to be reverted. Parry shouldn’t be the easiest move to perform, and knowing when to parry and when to not parry is key to increasing the skill level, however when it becomes unreliable it’s simply anti-fun.
    Feint to parry feels slow and clunky, perhaps it’s because I’m not used to use rmb to feint, but it doesn’t feel like a smooth transaction like that in chivalry.
    I’ve had some weird issues that I’m not sure how to replicate regarding parry, suddenly when I press the button my shield or timed parry starts to animate before just a moment later it decides to put me back to idle and I instead take damage from the incoming attack or an attack queues that I had decided to use as a riposte.
    Parrying the alchemancer is just a hazzle, he can stand behind his team mate and shoot his projectiles through them and hit me, I need to parry 24/7 because otherwise I get hit by one of his projectiles. Even when chasing an alchemancer this is a major problem. I noticed that when I use ward strike or the extended melee attack of the vypress I more or less get flinched when they parry my ability, the same also happens with impaler, and I also get knocked back quite far if they parry it. Why not have the same happen for the alchemancer’s regular attacks and the overhead? Also the alchemancer big blast is a pain, they can decide to miss you with it now and hit behind you so you take damage either way, when you could parry stuff slightly out of reach from your parry this didn’t really happen.
    When I run out of stamina I’m basically dead, if I parry I take damage and the opponent seems to be able to combo even though I parried?? taking damage while parrying is a terrible idea and needs to be changed already.

    Parry needs to be fluent in order for combat to be fluent, I don’t want to be stuck in parry to not take damage when I end up in a 2v1 situation, sure I can side dodge or use abilities to gain some distance, but when they’re on cooldown I have to rely on parry.


    Riposte

    This just feels random, for example when someone uses whirlwind or leap slam, I parry it and decide to riposte, the person using whirlwind can hit me faster with their combo which makes no sense. Meanwhile after having used other abilities such as charge or dervish the enemy more or less always manages to hit me with a riposte even if I try to parry asap.
    I’m not keen on ripostes being flinchable, but I believe in the system I mentioned earlier with different stages of release, which would in my opinion be the better sulotion.
    Some ripostes wont ever reach the enemy which is rather annoying, if I parry someone at facehug and decide to use Exploding Stab to riposte with, they sure as hell should have to parry my riposte, yet they’re so far out of range that they can instead start a new attack and land a free hit on me.


    Wall Jump

    Even though it’s still a WIP I already see major potential on it, I showed both gauntlet and rumpel a way to use it on sunken city to get to an area where I otherwise would have to use an ability to get to or walk around. It also makes me able to climb ledges that are a lot higher, which I have nothing against. Either way, it’s a neat addition to the game and adds other ways to get to people and surprise attack them as you’re never safe even though you think you are.


    Directional Step for Tinker

    It’s just awful, remove it already, if I want extra movement in a direction when I attack I will use the side dodges with spacebar.


    Flinch

    First hit flinch is something I disagree with, instead I want a 2-3 stage release system where you can either flinch the first or the first two. The later would also help against backswings (more below on that).
    If I use shadow kick or charge and the enemy gets hit, they get a free attack off on me if they so desire, the same can be said about several other abilities too and it simply just takes the fun out of it when I should have the upper hand as I hit first.
    It’s also very hard to tell if you get flinched, the identification for getting hit feels non-existant. I also have problems noticing my hp bar until it goes really low and I suddenly can’t see anything in dark areas because the screen is at gamma -47.


    Attacks

    A 3 stage release would be a lot better than the current “no backswing” system. It’s not a terrible idea that you’ve got going, the problem is when you can let your weapon phase through the enemy, or a pillar/wall before you decide to turn and hit them. I assume this might cause some attacks to bypass the parry hitbox and instead hit the enemy even if they actually parry the incoming attack.

    The 3 stage release would be:

    • 1: Deals no damage and Flinchable - It should still be parryable but would negate backswings as there would be no damage output while the attack is being performed.
    • 2: Deals damage and Flinchable - This would be quite early in release too, when the weapon is out of the “backswing” area. Weapons should still be able to hit people to your sides.
    • 3: Deals damage, not Flinchable - This would be probably the last 40-50% of release where your attack can’t get flinched, which means that gambles with faster weapons wouldn’t suddenly flinch you out of nowhere and no one hitting you from some weird direction would flinch you either.

    This system would prevent backswings, it would also make it possible to punish players that feint if you read them without having to trade, it would also punish careless people who always seek to trade, while not punishing players who use slower weapons or fight multiple opponents. This would be really handy when you riposte etc and would make your enemies question themselves before they attack you instead of just mashing every mouse button there is.


    Abilities

    I will make a thread about the specific abilities later.
    Right now I hate that there’s no way for me to cancel abilities, I hope you guys are working on a way to fix that in the future, because if I find myself facing off against an opponent and I start big blast and I see my opponent suddenly charging, which is a much quicker attack, he can hit and interrupt me before I’m able to launch off my attack, in a best case scenario he doesn’t reach me and I hit him in the face at facehug which results in us both taking damage.
    Some abilities have sluggish telegraphing, example leap slam, the opponent lingers in the air for a brief moment then suddenly darts towards the ground and you really have no idea when you should parry.


    Animations

    I feel you guys have put way too much work into this to make the different classes have different personalities and characters, while I really enjoy the alchemancers walk and run animation something bothers me a lot about the other classes. In chiv you have the same animations more or less for all classes, there are no major differences, it doesn’t matter if you run around as a man at arms, archer, knight or vanguard with a 1handed weapon, it all looks the same, except that the vanguard raises his arm due to charge. This may have been a simple solution but it worked, and I see no reason as to why you don’t have it in mirage too. I would much rather have the tinker and vypress have the same melee animations than have the vypress mess around with her dual wielded weapons for example. Also the different walks that characters have is rather annoying when fighting them, a vigilist just walking past you on the left side is really hard to notice if they lmb riposte or not due to their walk animations. It would also help for future weapon implementations or mods, where you could simply let the taurant use a sabre or a vypress use a spear.
    The animation when your character stops and almost falls over is annoying and should be either toned down a lot or completely removed, it looks stupid and makes no sense.
    To keep the character/personality for the different classes, you still have voice commands, abilities, and also the idle stance animations which are more than enough. There’s no need to clutter the screen with complex and different animations when instead you could keep it clean and polished with solid animations for all classes (except for the alchemancer who needs to keep his current ones)
    When pressing alt you more or less get a free feint as a vypress or tinker as it’s quite hard to tell if they’re attacking or not.

    The torso movement and head following the movement of it is a great introduction to the game and now most attacks feel like they have some weight behind them.


    New camera placement

    Who even came up with this idea?
    It was better in the previous build, even without the clipping in mind the camera is now far too close to the ground which makes it harder to notice what the enemies are doing and makes me feel motion sick/calustrophobic, feels ridicolous when you play taurant and you get the vision similar to that of a hobbit’s.




  • Agreed on the camera placement.
    Claustrophobic is entirely what I feel too. I can’t stand the camera being so low to the ground. Tinker being the worst of all classes, I feel like I’m 3 feet tall.



  • Gotta disagree about everything you said in regards to FHF ‘n’ such. I’m not even a competitive Chivalry player and I think FHF is infinitely superior to anything involving hit trades.



  • @ToLazy4Name I think there are better solutions to avoid hit trades than FHF.
    For a non comp player I assume you don’t play a lot of pubs, and if you do I assume you never end up in 3v1 or 6v1 situations, ever. When you do end up in those situations, due to being punished for parrying, you have to trade at times to stay alive. FHF might be a good thing in duels, but it’s awful in team play. Now chiv and Mirage are completely different games (Even though I will use chiv as a reference as it’s a game we’re all familiar with) and you have to keep in mind that ranged and explosions are everywhere, now imagine you fighting someone in melee and someone else shoots a phoenix at you, the phoenix causes you to flinch when you would’ve just finished off the enemy, the enemy who started his attack later, or perhaps didn’t attack at all would either have the upper hand or kill you because you got flinched. Maybe he had parried too early and your drag would’ve gone around his parry. Either way, abilities are a factor in Mirage, that means there will be ranged everywhere, are you supposed to know that someone just used a phoenix, or a ward strike against you from behind and suddenly turn, cftp, and then riposte the enemy? I doubt that will happen very often, even in comp play. I don’t want to balance around duels, I want the game to be balanced around both team play and 1vX play. If you’re completely screwed when you end up in a 2v1 the game isn’t fun. If I parry one dude, then the other, then the first dude decides to attack again I will be stuck in parry forever, because if I decide to riposte it will be flinched. There are major flaws to FHF that could easily be solved by other means.

    For example:

    • CFTP/FTP: Instead of trading like a rank 23 on chiv you could actually use CFTP or FTP to avoid being traded. There are problems with this in chiv atm because it costs a lot of stamina, that is a problem for sure. However if you know my stance on parries, you would know that I don’t want them to cost stamina, I don’t want people to get punished for playing good, I want them to get punished for missing, using too many feints, side dodges/jumps etc.
      Now there could be other changes to CFTP/FTP, for example they could make it a “mechanic” instead; the mechanic would go from windup, the whole windup, perhaps even the first stage of release, (look at the 3 stages I mentioned) it will purely be a defensive manouver and it won’t cost feint stamina, or at least not as much. This way you have the good old FTP that you can only do during the feint window of windup, and the “oh no shit some dude is throwing rocks at me from a distance I need to stop attacking and parry this shit FTP mechanic.”

    • Clashing: Instead of trading TBS could introduce a clashing mechanic, so when your weapon hits another weapon in release you clash instead of trade, which isn’t that bad of a solution. They’ve already talked about interaction with projectiles, being able to counter projectiles with other projectiles, I also hope I can play taurant tennis with the rock throw ability against another taurant in the future. Either way, with this mechanic, you would both end up parrying eachother and you could either parry another enemy, riposte, let your enemy riposte, or whatever. Either way it’s a better solution than FHF.

    I think FHF removes from the game, it favours fast weapons and gambles, that is my opinion on it, I think it’s a lazy soolution to a problem that occured at times in chivalry. The only people I ever see complain about there not being FHF in vanilla chiv are people that try to trade instead of parry incoming attacks.

    I would like to know what you like about FHF however and why you think it should be in the game, who knows, perhaps you can change my mind on the subject. However as of right now I see no place for it in a 6v6 game filled with magic abilities, except forthe obvious windup flinch and the possible early/half release flinch.



  • Excellent as always Xy, the entire melee piece, FHF, PIP, CFTP etc is likely the most critical piece of Mirage because of having to deal with so many ranged attacks.

    It is essential that a highly skilled player (not me but others) can handle two average players - a Taurant and an Alchemancer throwing their entire arsenal of skills and attacks at once.

    I recall on the previous build The Science and I ganging up on Gauntlet who is far better. I just felt it was too easy to bring him down if I took for example Alchemancer and just spammed him while science engaged him in melee. Both doing melee was very different, he could handle it but that was when there was no stamina.

    I’m going to think about this more, I would expect there is a solution that doesnt require new complex coding.

    If they are just going to die due to running out of stamina or because they can never do anything but parry that wouldnt be acceptable.


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