Build 52985 - CTF feedback and misc



  • Just a collection of some thoughts from the current build 52985. Missed the Thurs official play test so unfortunately I have less to say on this build.

    Ideas on CTF game mode-

    • How can we make the flag carrier more apparent to other players?

    • If you’re not against recording more voicework, an announcer stating “The enemy team has the flag” or a text message coupled with a warning chime of some sort. The floating object above the players head could also produce a low humming sound so that players who are listening can echo locate the flag carrier.

    • How can we make the carrier more aware of owning the flag?

    • Add a sound file with an announcer type voice saying directly to the player “You have taken the flag”. If avoiding the use of an announcer, text coupled with a warning sound (preferably short and sharp) would suffice.

    • How can we add clarity to whats happening when the flag is dropped?

    • Consider applying a countdown until the flag resets on the position of the flag. Like a small bubble appears on the flag counting 3, 2, 1 and then a poof animation where clouds spew out as the flag disintegrates and restores itself at the center of the map. In the theme of adding an announcer add a voice that states to all players “Flag dropped”. When picked up, state “Flag taken”.

    • Does the mode not suit some of the maps, why?

    • Was not available for the playtest on Thurs, but so long as the maps are perfectly symmetrical or close to it, and the run distance for both teams are equidistant from opposing spawns, no map should be poor for CTF unless the map is too small or too large. Ruins large from Chivalry would fall under “too large” spectrum, where a duel map with a flag in the middle would be too small.

    • How can we communicate the location of the plant zones to the attackers and defenders?

    • Add a glowing ring around the plant site with a small text zone reading “Plant”. The glowing ring accurately signals the exact dimensions of the plant zone and the textbox guides the player in the general direction until they’re close to the plant site.

    • End of round flow, starting the next round. How should that work?

    • I guess it makes sense to reset all players back to spawn, there should probably be a countdown timer letting players know when the next round is starting after a successful plant. Could reuse the animation from TO-Ravine when the game forces players to a new spawn (locks them in place and the animation plays).

    General thoughts-

    Extending weapons: Looks odd, like someone dragged the z slider on the whole model and not just the shaft. Taurants perfectly spherical mace is now oval in shape. Vypress’s hand no longer sits in the cup of her fist weapon (left hand). Beside visual problems, player movement speed is higher in this game than in Chivalry, meaning that player reach is generally longer. Increasing weapon size causes a sense of ghost reach this build, especially with Taurant and Vigilist attacks. While not terrible and entirely doable, I question the necessity of making the already big weapons even bigger.

    Wall jumping: The actual jump arc is better, but the trigger is not reliable even on flat walls, and becomes even more tricky with smooth surfaces. Also requires the player to be physically touching the wall, which can cause issues. Consider increasing the detection range of wall jump so the player doesn’t have to jump directly into the wall to initiate a wall jump.

    Camera: Cleaned up from last build, but even with the cleaned up camera I still feel like the camera is stuck between two shoulders (like vanilla chiv back in 2012). Feels uncomfortable to play. Shoulder clipping into camera noticeable on higher fovs with Tinker, Taurant, Vigilist. Inconsistency in tracer drawing and first person animations (Taurant overhead specifically). A byproduct of the new lower camera? Consider a revert to original eyeball cameras for the sake of consistency. I don’t want to have to aim my stabs to the left of my opponent like I did in Chivalry with the billhook.

    Parry: Better than last build, but some issues remain. Parry doesn’t feel instant, largely noticeable when trying to cftp or last minute ftp. Sometimes parry has a delay, not sure what the cause is (might just be an animation delay). The forcing property of the parry is back, and feels nice for the defender, but the forcing property is a bit big and tends to catch weapon tracers that do not appear close to the target. Most noticeable in close range fights, probably handle tracers being picked up by the parry volume.

    Hit trades: Do not feel good at all. Punishes players from taking initiative, especially against harder hitting opponents. Can also kill trade (both players hit each other at the same time, kill each other).

    Tinker mines are placed by pressing E, and immediately she places the mine directly in front of her. A quality of life change might be to press and hold E while still moving, and it’ll make a transparent representation of where you’re going to place that mine. Releasing the E key would plant the mine. Would help significantly with positioning mines accurately.

    Footstep sounds when crouched are far too loud on most classes excluding Vypress. Consider significant muffling of footstep sounds while crouch walking. Useful for flanking close to enemies for surprise attacks.


  • Developer

    Objective feedback
    Currently working on addressing all of these issues

    Weapon ranges
    The weapon extension is indeed us just stretching the weapons out for testing purposes, we’re looking at what kinda range to give the weapon alternatives and if the general weapon range is too short or not. We do believe what we had before was a little bit short for some classes and increasing it helps dealing with groups of enemies.

    Any other thoughts on weapon ranges would be great to hear, from our limited testing we think it generally does good things with some weapons being perhaps a bit too long like the Taurants.
    The shortest weapon variants would be closer to what we had previously and the longer ranges would get a slight increase in cast times.

    General

    • Camera position is almost identical to what it was before, animations have changed a lot since then but we’ll look into it more
    • Tinker mines definitely need a fair amount of work on the placement part still
    • footstep sounds in general will get a large rework, distinguishing between allies and enemies is really hard and the general volume is all over the place on them right now
    • will revisit wall jumps at some point, too hard to pull them off right now
    • Wrote about parries in other threads~
      • There has been a small delay introduced to account for when a parry is actually possible, we’ve introduced a server side check and with that we delay parry indication until the server agrees that you are parrying to prevent the indication from coming up at the same time as you get hit. This is still WIP and may feel slightly worse but it will be accurate


  • Thanks for taking the time to respond, Vesros.
    Regarding parries, minimizing any amount of input delay to parry should be a priority. Maybe I’ve misunderstood, but if you’re experiencing packet loss or generally high latency, wouldn’t the server side check be more prone to delaying the parry as well? Or is this only in regards to the ui element designating that the parry has occurred? Similarly, wouldn’t the server refresh rate (cycles per second) factor into the server side check?

    The weapon ranges experiment works fine, having weapons of differing length add to the variety of tools players can work with in combat. I would very much like to see weapons of varying lengths and timings, and it appears you’re headed in this direction as well.

    Edit: The only problem with increasing small weapon sizes to be slightly bigger, but leaving the top end of larger weapons the same, is that it minimizes the range gap between smaller and larger weapons. I’ve had few issues with hitting players with smaller weapons (Vypress), and arguably some of the smaller weapons tend to have fairly great reach due to the animation of a one handed stab attack versus a two handed stab. Especially considering the disparities in movement speed between classes where greater acceleration / max speed have greater potential reach.

    If you guys can nail down responsiveness and the queuing issues, you’ll be in a good position for the games melee combat.

    Regards,
    Gauntlet


  • Developer

    @Gauntlet the only thing delayed is the UI indication, if just bringing up the parry doesn’t feel snappy enough it must be because of the windup animation which might actually be made worse when playing on the alpha servers. Any idea what ping you usually have?

    The servers update rate plays into it but we’re aiming high enough where it is not a concern.



  • @Vesros Ah okay, my ping is normally between 40-60 on the NA test server. My connection is fairly strong so I rarely encounter packet loss or ping spikes, but I always consider the possibility of it happening in a key moment. Good to know it’s only the indicator that might be delayed, because that is what I was previously basing the parry input response time on, which at times you can definitely see a small delay before it pops up.