wizardish last edited by
I don’t know where to begin with this one, I have a lot to say about the turncap. I also would like this to turn into a discussion if possible, I know some people have differing opinions regarding this.
My claim is that the current turncap makes combat feel clunky, punishes the 1 player in a 2v1 situation too hard and makes other gameplay mechanics difficult to pull off or keep track off.
Now, I want to say before I start that I really like the newest patch you guys put out. It’s a lot better and the game feels like it just took 100 steps forward with 0 steps backwards. I will make a feedback regarding the entire patch sometime in the next few days.
First let’s go over why the turn cap makes the gameplay feel clunky. I feel when I go into a swing suddenly I am incredibly limited in terms of what I can do. It feels like I’ve been stunned or slowed or something. I feel like I lose control, even if it’s not the case. When I try and switch the direction of my attacks I feel like my weapon just refuses to do what I input. Although it doesn’t make gameplay feel terrible, it adds a sense of clunkyness. It’s a shame too because I feel like you guys have done a really good job of eliminating a lot of clunky aspects and the game feels a lot smoother on this current patch.
Second, let’s go over the turncap in regards to a 2v1 situation. Personally, I have found 2v1s to be incredibly hard and punishing if you are the lone player. I only won 2v1s when both of my enemies were directly in front of me. When either one of the two enemies decided to take an angle greater than say 45 degrees, I lost. The turncap limits fake-switching and even limits normal switching to a point. I feel so helpless in a 2v1 situation because if I ever try and switch I will usually be punished by the incredibly restrictive turncap.
Some people may argue that 2v1s should naturally be difficult for the one person. I am totally behind this idea and I agree 100%. I back the idea that the 2 players, when playing perfectly, should NEVER lose the 1 player. Obviously this isn’t completely realistic as there are other factors such as health and human error. However, I am still under the logic that the 1 player should be able to have a chance at winning a 1v2 by punishing mistakes made by the 2 players. The problem is, 2v1s are already hard enough with the removal of RoHs. They are also made harder because of abilities. I would actually attribute this to the difficulty of 2v1s more than RoHs being gone. This is because a lot of abilities stagger or deal large amounts of damage. It’s incredibly difficult to keep track of everything going on in a 2v1. Players should be rewarded for having the skill to deal with all these different factors. I’m not saying they aren’t rewarded, but rather, it is hard for players to express their skill in 1v2s when the current turncap is so oppressive. On top of all of this, by limiting the potential of the 1 player in the 1v2 situation, the 2 players suddenly have a much easier time winning. It goes both ways, not only does the one player get affected, but so does the 2 players. There is no challenge or no incentive to trying to play. I am under the thought that the 2 players should still need to play correctly in order to succeed.
The 2 players should not win based on the logic that, since there are 2 players, they are supposed to win. They should still be required to play just as normally as ever, maybe even more.
The main claim here is that 2v1s are already hard enough for the 1 player and the current turncap is over-kill.
If you were to reduce the turncap, the 1 player would not suddenly become OP and you wouldn’t see the 1 player winning all the time. The 1 player still needs great parrying skills, game sense, and general target-switching knowledge in order to properly win a 1v2. Reducing the turncap will simply enable the 1 player to utilize these skills in a 1v2 situation.
Lastly, let’s talk about how this makes gameplay mechanics difficult to pull off and also can make people/things difficult to keep track of.
Currently, Z-stabs and waterfalls are very possible because of the way the parry box is. I love this, and something I have loved since I started playing. I’m pretty sure 99% of players enjoy these mechanics as it rewards swing-manipulation. However, it is incredibly hard to pull off Z-stabs or waterfalls against players that have put more than 10 hours into the game. To effectively Z-stab or waterfall against good players, you have to start your windup on one side and then drag the swing to the other side when in release. It’s incredibly hard to do this because of the turncap. If you want an example, go into the game for a few minutes and pick Vigilist. Try doing Z-stabs with her, or just stabbing in general and you will see how shitty it feels. You can barely move at all when stabbing. Reducing the turncap would make Z-stabs and waterfalls viable against good players.
The current turncap limits the ability to keep track of people.
I’ve been in situations where I miss a swing and try to combo into another, but my opponent moves and my swing simply can’t keep up with them. So basically you can sprint around your opponent as long as they’re swinging and they won’t be able to hit you. People can just dance around you and punish you heavily. Most of the time you end up being forced to FTP in order to not get hit. In teamplay, with all the shit that’s happening, it is incredibly difficult to track players in a tight environment because of the turncap. This applies mostly to target-switching. It feels like when I swing suddenly my camera has just been locked and my awareness just completely drops. Having a higher FoV doesn’t even help much, I usually just end up getting locked out from reacting to anything my opponents do due to the turncap.
That’s it for my thoughts on the current turncap, I’d like to hear what others have to say. As for a reduction in the turncap, I’m not sure how much you would reduce it by. Currently on most of the classes I can only do a 180 when swinging. I’d like to be able to do a 270, maybe a bit less. You guys know better I think for finding a proper tweak, if you were to change it.
I think that the two most important things are that it feels clunky and it reduces the skill in team play. Yes, I come from Chivalry but it seems very unlikely that someone playing Mirage for the first time would feel the turn cap to be natural. People want to have a good amount of control over their swings especially if they’re coming from an FPS background. The turn cap can still be greatly increased without causing any issues especially now that you can’t back swing.
While Mirage is a different game and more of team play can come from intelligent usage of abilities, switching and fake switching is a core part of a melee team fight in a game like this. It is very hard to do any convincing switches right now and if you try you risk a high chance of missing with the turn cap. Fake target switching seems to be impossible.
I definitely agree that is too high as it is, last patch had a universal turn rate and this one has lower caps for the lighter classes along with reducing movement speed slightly.
There’s a ton of things that play into this issue outside of turn cap but we will be tweaking it slowly over the coming builds as it’s a very sensitive change and not too far off right now.
There are some inconsistencies in turn rate going from attacks into parry and a few other states that we’ll resolve as well.
There is also a bug that we don’t know the full extent of right now that lowers your turn rate at times which we need to resolve before going much further.