Feedback for this patch

  • I’ll answer the questions you layed out in the “Weekly Test Focus” first, and then move on to other things.

    My most favorite class at the moment, and probably since I downloaded the game, has been the Magic Carpet Guy. I usually don’t care for voice acting, artwork, sound effects, all this stuff, although I do appreciate what you guys do, however, Magic Carpet Guy is just so fun in every single aspect. I love his voice acting, he has the best lines of any class hands-down. I love the way he looks and his abilities as well, he’s a funny character and definitely seems very passionate. I also believe he is a lot of fun to play and incredibly strong. Magic Carpet Guy’s melee is very fluid and the animations are very readable. He isn’t OP or UP, he seems just right. His grenades add a layer of ranged combat and supportive attack. His healing capabilities make him good as a duelist or utility teamfighter. His carpet is probably the highlight of the class for anyone. It’s incredibly funny to watch him just fly out of combat on his cool carpet.

    My least favorite class so far is Tinker. In the beginning I sort of liked her, but as I’ve explored the other classes, my liking to her has only decreased. I feel like a lot of her moves are incredibly boring and linear when compared to other classes. It feels like I’m playing a class with a decent melee weapon that feels fluid, but lacks any kind of ability to really mix up the gameplay. I like the rock ability and all, but it seems really basic and probably too readable. The uses for rock are very limited in my opinion. The other abilities are just so basic in my opinion that they aren’t even worthy of mention. I thought the stasis effect was sort of cool, but as with the rock the uses don’t seem to be incredible. Note that a lot of this is highly subjective, maybe I just haven’t seen the potential, but so far the Tinker ability and class as a whole has let me down.

    My favorite ability has to be the ability on Vypress which extends the range of her attacks. I like the idea a lot and it definitely feels good in game. I find myself using it over and over again because it adds a layer of surprise to her attacks. I think the lifesteal ability is really cool too, but I would disable it from working on teammates as that just encourages TKing. In a competitive sense, some strategies may emerge where using her lifesteal on teammates can be good, but on a casual basis there may be a lot of people who are just encouraged to TK because of it.

    My least favorite ability is probably Tinker’s mines OR Taraunt’s shove/explosive punch ability. Tinker’s mines feel like they just slow down gameplay a lot. It takes a while to place down the mines, and they are too readable in there current state. I like hook-into-mine interaction that you can do, but the hook is pretty buggy atm. Taraunt’s shove/explosive punch are kind of cool, but to me they just don’t seem worthy of an ability slot. I like that they serve as an active parry, but outside of that it just kind of feels like a slot that I’m required to fill with one of those abilities. I hardly find myself using the abilities because they don’t seem practical in a lot of situations.

    What’s fun and what’s not?

    Well generally I believe the whole game is fun, during the playtest today I definitely had a ton of fun despite some still glaring issues which I will go over later. As I’ve mentioned many times to a lot of the other playtesters, having a reactive FTP and no queuing issues literally makes the game feel 100x better. I feel like I have so much more control and that the game is so much more responsive and fluid. So I definitely like that you guys sorted that out. I also like a lot of the new abilities such as the Vypress extended range ability. I also really like the animation switch you guys did with Magic Carpet Guy. It’s not that it feels any better or is easier to read, but it just seems so much better. I’m not really sure how to explain it in words, but you guys definitely nailed that animation. I also love how I can finally bind my feint button to something else other than RMB. As a avid feint user cough feint crutcher cough, I felt like I was actually able to feint more consistently and I felt more confident playing.

    I’m assuming this question is really more of a general thing, and so in terms of that, there wasn’t really anything that I disliked. There are very specific things such as the turn cap which bug me a ton, but I already got a reply to that. I am starting to question some of the spawn times a little bit, specifically on capturing the glyphs, but otherwise everything seems pretty nice.

    Thoughts on game balance?

    Well, to give you a straight answer I’d really have to see the list of current values. I can’t really formulate a real opinion on game balance based off of feel. I have to see real competitive matches, which is probably a while off, and I also need to see the numbers themselves (based vesros pls deliver). If I were to base it off of a feel perspective though, it feels… mostly good. Again it’s really hard to simply deliver an opinion saying “yeah, the game is balanced, or, no it’s not, change this please” when there’s a lot that I can’t currently see. However, I would say 80% of abilities seem neither UP or OP, which is good. Weapon timings on most classes seem ok I guess. I still feel like Taraunt is a bit absurd in his current state when talking about his melee weapons, but that may or may not be related to animations and lag. The thing I can say with certainty is that the game isn’t dominantly broken in one area of gameplay or another, everything feels relatively even. Now, I’m sure this will change with time and especially once beta begins, but for now nothing feels too much off the mark.

    Anything not clear or confusing?

    I think range deception is still a huge issue with this patch. I haven’t really done any proper tests to nail down the exact reason, but I’m 99% sure it’s because hitboxes don’t match parry boxes. I think you guys said this was intended? I will be doing some more testing just to outline how ridiculous it is. Maybe there are other factors, but that’s definitely something that remains the most confusing in the current state of the game.

    If you could change one thing in Mirage, what would it be?

    I would probably change the parry boxes not matching the hitboxes or find some solution to it. Or I would change the servers/imrpove the netcode or eliminate lag with a magic wand if I had one, that’s pretty important to me as a playtester.

    I’ll try and provide map feedback when I get some more playtesting under my belt.

    More feedback:

    I’ll start with talking about lag and some common issues I noticed which I attributed to lag.

    Lots of desyncs, like a LOT of them. I’ve begun to sort of get used to the terrible turn cap and adapt in 1v2 situations, and I have ended up doing pretty well usually, but as I’m doing a big combo in a team fight and switching, I will suddenly desync and then none of my hits register and my turncap completely breaks. It’s really frustrating to have these happen almost every fight. I get a massive combo going, I’ve killed maybe 1-2 people and I’m switching onto a third and suddenly all my attacks just go unregistered because I happened to desync. Sometimes it’s hard to realize that I’ve begun to desync too because I might think I am just barely missing, but in fact I am simply desyncing. The audio also tends to bug too when I desync.

    Something I noticed when I first started playing, but it’s becoming more apparent as I play more, is that it seems often attacks will hit before the animation. I’m pretty sure this is because of lag, but maybe it’s not. Anyway, as you know, parrying at the last second possible is a good skill that needs a lot of practice and helps with reading feints, however, I find myself forced to parry early almost every fight because attacks almost always hit before the animation. Although feints are much more readable in this game, it’s almost impossible to read any type of close-range feint due to this kind of lag.

    I cannot stress enough the importance of a good server and good netcode. You guys only need to run one server to have a proper alpha test because of the limited amount of testers. If you want the most accurate feedback and discussion providing a lag-free environment is crucial. Especially when working with sensitive numbers (which hopefully I get to do soon, vesros pls), limiting lag as much as possible is a necessity. Mirror what you guys want the game to feel like when you release it, this is hugely important for accuracy. Lag affects so many things regarding core gameplay, so the game we are playing in alpha may feel a lot different when compared to release. I’m assuming on release you guys will have the best of the best when it comes to servers and improve your netcode as much as possible, but I believe providing at least one server that is top-notch is important. I think all alpha-testers would agree, and it would make our lives a bit easier, and yours too when it comes to feedback.

    Gameplay related feedback

    As I mentioned previously, the hit boxes being different from actual parry boxes bugs me a lot and I think it can be attributed to most of the range deception that occurs when testers play. I’m not going to go into detail at the moment because I can’t, but in the following days I will try and make a followup post detailing some of the information.

    Turncap. I’ve already given my thoughts regarding the matter here

    I know this is a work-in-progress, but there are still a lot of animations that need to be worked on. Specifically my concern is sprinting. I know others have brought this up, but some of the sprinting animations are completely unacceptable in my opinion. Taraunt is an example of one of these. I think out of all of the classes, he has by far the worst sprinting animation.

    Some animations seem really subtle such as Vypress stab or her Chakram ability. I would try and add more movement into these animations or add some clearer effects as they seem to be really hard to read.

    Taraunt ripostes are absurd. After playing the game long enough, I rarely panic except against the Taraunt class. His ripostes hit almost instantly and you barely even see the animation for them. His normal attacks/animations aren’t really that good either making the ripostes 2x harder to read. I really urge you guys to work on his numbers or animations or whatever, his melee is just superior to every other class at the moment.

    Taraunt’s whirldwind ability seems to be really inconsistent when you try to parry it. I know someone stated a reason for this in another thread, but I couldn’t find it. It also occurs with the rock ability and Vigilist’s leap ability. I’m not sure where you’re supposed to parry when they use these abilities, but I almost never parry the rock ability even when I’m facing it completely.

    That’s it for gameplay, there wasn’t anything too glaring this patch. It feels really nice, and as I said earlier, despite the lag, I was able to have a lot of fun with melee combat.

    Overall I really like the patch so far, everything is really nice and the reactive FTP/queuing issue fix are definitely the highlights. Anything I didn’t cover you can assume I enjoyed or haven’t noticed yet.

    So I decided to just add a list of my personal priorities if I was working on the game, not telling you how to run your shit, but, here would be MY list of priorities:

    1. Fix the lag
    2. Continue to polish animations and add smaller things in order to prepare for PAX west
    3. Work on adding the rest of the abilities.

  • Parry boxes, I still think that they need to stay the same width, but curve around the character instead of being a square in front of them, this could be the issue as to why Wizardish feels that the range is way off.

    Taurant ripostes, they seem to hit too fast indeed, I think it’s a matter of how the animations are regarding the class, they may need a bit more telegraphing.

    I don’t really think that whirlwind is that inconsistent, I did at first, but after having played the game for a while I got used to when to parry it and when to not, then again, you can change how it flows vertically now, meaning you could potentially miss your enemy with the first swing intentionally to hit as the weapon comes around.

    With parryboxes being the same as the hitboxes, do you mean the player hitbox or the weapon hitbox?
    Because if it’s the player hitbox your parry would basically be a full 360 which seems to me like a terrible idea. The parryboxes right now are the way they are to prevent weird backparries from happening, while also not registering if the parry isn’t accurate enough, hence why “Z-stabs” and “waterfalls” are a lot more effective than in chivalry.
    Speaking of parries I should probs make a specific thread about it, but I’ll mention it in this one:
    The turncap is way too low during parry and it’s really annoying, We can’t parry people behind us by crouching and looking up, and to compensate a higher turncap so we can spin around and actually parry them would be optimal and required in 1vX situations.
    The parry box is the height of the character and that’s bad, it means you can just look straight ahead and parry everything and not care about vertical attacks in the slightest. if it were smaller you would have to aim downwards to parry lower attacks or upwards as attacks come from above.
    Also please, allow us to parry the enemies full release, it’s really annoying when you parry and it doesn’t register, though you don’t take damage from the enemy attack you still get punished for it. Espeically if you fight multiple opponents and you get punished for parrying an attack that doesn’t connect due to the weird no-backswing solution.

    Which brings us to the fact that I can see the enemy on my right or left (in 1stP) and see my attack go through them and they still don’t take damage is a bit of an issue that’s persistent due to the non-backswing area of attack. I still think we need a larger area of effect for attacks to actually hit than we do currently. This is something that would have to be fine tuned for sure, but right now it’s really frustrating to have your weapon phase through without dealing damage, and I’d expect it to be worse in a full 6v6.
    Another solution would probably work better however, aka not having the area where attacks can hit, but instead certain parts of release where there’s no attacks occuring. That way it could be fine tuned properly for each weapon type and it wouldn’t stop the end of release for dealing damage as it traverses its way to slightly behind the character.

  • First off, I’d like to thank you for the well-thought and detailed post. You took some things from our conversations and it clearly shows in the quality of your Alpha feedback. The “how I feel about X, Y Z” is incredibly useful feedback, and I will likely not address it as I respond here as we are already talking about some of the ideas you have presented. I am going to go down the line and address some of the more “factual” content of your post.

    • Entropist readability is definitely favorable, and should be considered when taking some final tweaking looks at other animations - this goes for abilities as well (to address Vypress comments later in the post).

    • Vypress lifesteal will not work on team damage or other objects such as wards (in fact, verification is assigned to me and I should really go take a look :P)

    • I personally find shove/punch to be similar in identity and will bring this up

    • Regarding Taurant: Overhead issue was fixed and you will not see these problems in the next build, though I believe I mentioned this to you in person. There are some animation quirks that I am going to hunker down and figure out and report it to the right people. Good, proper objective discussion about this with you/Gauntlet/etc can really help me sort out where we think the Taurant’s movements could be addressed. I will also take a deeper look into Taurant ripostes myself.

    • Regarding Desyncs: as we discussed, it is actually a logic issue which we are looking to pinpoint. It’s something we have noticed in a little-to-no latency environment, so it is something that is not propagated by lag, but rather it is exacerbated by. If you or others who are interested can start making a note of these events and the events prior/post, maybe we can dig deep enough to find it. The real key to these bugs is finding a consistent event or events between them. Message me directly about anything concerning this.

    • Regarding Sprinting: I have already started a pass on movement animations, and will continue to do so. You can Message me direct feedback on this, or post specific feedback per instance.

    • Regarding “Netcode” and Server: When you use the term “Netcode” it is generally denoted as the synchronization between the client and server; I addressed this above with desyncs. We definitely need to keep looking for whatever quirks are popping up.

    • I do remind you of the exclusive nature of your positions right now in this extremely early Alpha phase; when you of the most loyal and dedicated have poor experiences playing, we can focus on improving all of this content for the wider-release testing environments. Contrary to what you say, you having these experiences is important to simulate what a player is experiencing {right now in this state of the game} so that we can continue to work on them. So, in other words, thank you for your patience in helping us test these environments because it allows us to improve them as we move forward.

    • And just so you don’t think I’m being contrarian to your feelings on that - the Alpha server is now the only client running on that server. I have 24/7 access to this and will provide feedback/solutions/support at pretty time of day outside of deep sleeping hours. Quality of experience is of the utmost importance.

    • For both yours and Xylvion’s post: There is probably too much to talk about regarding Turn cap and Parry boxes for a forum post, as Vesros said in his response to your other thread; we will continue to discuss these in a more direct manner and perform iterative tweaks to this system. These systems cannot be changed in large increments or it affects all of our capacities to analyze it effectively.

    Thank you again for your feedback, this was a great post, keep up the excellent work.

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