Team fights are a big big mess (long read)



  • I am having a very difficult time enjoying full on 6v6 team fights.

    AOE spells

    The tinker mine is not being used as sector control spell, but are being thrown right in the middle of team fights, and do a massive amount of damage. Regardless of my awareness, it is neigh impossible to parry the damage. Now add another tinker , and approaching an objective as a low health character becomes incredibly infuriating.

    The alchemancer orb spell on the other hand works as intended, but a bit too well imo. The damage is a bit extreme, and it seems that it does less damage to teammates which encourage players to throw it right in the middle of a skirmish.

    Suggestions

    • Instead of doing damage the tinker traps could make anyone in the radius of the blast move slower or other type of crowd control effect. Or instead rework them so they are not simply grenades you can throw in a team fight.
    • Alchemancer orb equalize the damage so they hurt teammates as much as much as they do on enemies (might be the case already)
    • Find a way to make incoming aoe damage more easely identifiable whilst in a team fight so you can react and parry it.

    Team damage

    This is another major aspect, the team damage is WAY to low. Projectiles seems to go through allies (bug or feature??) either way i do not think that its a good thing, as an alchemancer it is way to easy to just aim in the general direction of a fight with out any risk of injuring or killing teammates. Melee team damage is also pitifully low, I STARTED SWINGING THROUGH TEAMMATES without any care during team fights. In about 10 hours of play, I have been team killed once or twice, and team killed for about the same amount.

    Suggestions

    • Up the friendly melee damage so allies are more careful and apprehensive in swinging through teammates.
    • Projectiles should not go though teammates and could do a bit more friendly damage
    • In general you want players to be careful about their positioning and spell usage during team fights

    Objectives Layout

    I found the closed off objective rooms very frustrating to fight in, you get bounced left and right , and its very easy to get disorientated and lose your targets. On the other hand the vigilist force field sure does help making it a bit less chaotic even if it is for a small amount of time.

    Suggestions

    • Open up and make the smaller or enclosed rooms a bit bigger
    • Make the corridors twice as large or rework them so they don’t become death traps

    I might be wrong about a lot of thing I stated, these are still my first impressions and sorry in advance if I spouted some bs :D



  • Nah, man! Feel free to discuss what’s on your mind. I love theorycrafting and discussing games with fellow players as well. You have a lot of interesting points, but I personally feel that the Alchemancer is in a good spot. His E does do a lot of damage but it’s offset by a high cooldown. If anything, I feel as though Alchemancer could use a few BUFFS. Hear me out!

    Unlike Archer roles or classes, similar to Chivalry, he’s useless at close range. While the Archer could melee or even change to a secondary weapon to defend himself, Alchemancer can only… run away. Literally. Even if you try to teleport, you can get staggered in the midst of the animation, which cancels it. He also has low health and an auto attack that can not only be blocked but reflected back at you. He’s a lot of fun, don’t get me wrong, but once cornered, he’s hopeless.

    On another note, it looks like he has a death beam abillity of some sort that I can’t wait to try. >.>



  • @Frodiziak You definitely have a point about Tinker mines. Currently I don’t use them to prep for a fight, but rather toss them at my target during a fight to start creating death zones.

    Regarding your other points

    • Alchemancer does no team damage with any spell. Including his big blast aoe.

    • Projectiles do not phase through teammates, they will be halted by their model. It’s more likely that the projectile curved around that character model with the real time manipulation of projectiles.

    As far as too much AOE goes: this game has a larger focus on team interactions. A well placed Iron Dome over the objective will cover you from Alchemancer barrages, taurant charges/leap slams, vigilist disperses, and any other attack ability that can knock you around really. The iron dome protects very well, and has a substantial health pool / longevity.

    Try playing vigilist and using her iron dome around objective spots. I’ve found that doing this greatly increases my teams success.

    Team Damage

    I opened a thread discussing this not too long ago. I don’t really care to up the team damage, I’d rather not be slain by careless teammates. I would however suggest and this really should be in, is that tracers that hit friendly player meshes should stop the attack, so you cannot use your teammates as sacrifices as you noted you had started doing. It would be advantageous for the health of the game.



  • @Gauntlet said in Team fights are a big big mess (long read):

    I don’t really care to up the team damage, I’d rather not be slain by careless teammates.

    Really, team damage just needs to be high enough so that at high level play hitting your teammates is really bad. In pubs where everything is spam, I like it how it is.



  • @Gauntlet said in Team fights are a big big mess (long read):

    The iron dome protects very well, and has a substantial health pool / longevity.
    Try playing vigilist and using her iron dome around objective spots. I’ve found that doing this greatly increases my teams success.

    The problem with Iron Dome is that enemy Vigilist can completely negate it and replace it with her own, literally turning the tables. I honestly feel like using Iron Dome against Iron Dome should just completely remove both domes, making the playing field even. Right now you could, and should, just wait for enemy Vigilist to use ID and just replace it with your own.

    Iron dome is a very strong ability since it silences “magical” enemy abilities inside it while you retain your own and it denies every single projectile. I think it’s the strongest ability in the game at the moment if you take teamfights into consideration.



  • @Kreittis
    Alt attack low damage dagger for alchemancer please!
    No more uselessness in an iron dome.
    Need some more skins to sell anyways and his weapons tab wouldn’t be empty



  • @Pants said in Team fights are a big big mess (long read):

    Alt attack low damage dagger for alchemancer please!
    No more uselessness in an iron dome.
    Need some more skins to sell anyways and his weapons tab wouldn’t be empty

    The alchemancer will be the hardest class to tweak, its very easy to make him very op or up.
    Right now he is kinda of a pain the ass because of all his mobility tools, but once he loses them he becomes completely useless. I am kind of against a full range class (Like I was against archers in Chiv) but thats just my opinion.



  • Regarding team damage, I think it’s fair to characterize the players in the alpha test as mostly Chivalry vets, I think? I know I’d consider myself one. We may just be better at avoiding team-killing: it would be interesting to see how a group of completely naive players would feel about it.



  • Alchemancer needs those mobility options. He’s a free kill at close range unless the Alchemancer can successfully get away, which is hard. Not to mention that hitting him during his float or teleport cancels them out, pretty much rendering him a standing 90 health meatbag at close to mid range. I think that out of all the other characters, he’s in the best spot. Not overpowered or underpowered. As for the dagger idea? Hm… I don’t know. I like the idea of one class being completely magic based. His auto attack fireballs are unique and makes him stand out compared to all the other classes by virtue alone. If anything, I thought of an idea while I was at school. What if his right click(the parry) PUSHED his enemies away along with himself? That way, he can create the appropriate space needed with incoming enemies? I noticed on the last day of the beta that if you time it right, tou can push incoming projectiles away with right click when timed right, which is very cool.

    His main problem is his helplessness at close range. Once eyes are laid upon you by that Vypress or Taurant, you’re done. But yeah. He will be very hard to tweak without breaking him.