Slow Windups and Holding block are terrible

  • Some good points first: graphics, animations, customisation, touches like picking up objects, environment interaction are all very good. Map design seems decent too.

    Voice over work isn’t as good as Chiv1, but isn’t terrible.

    The main issue I have is core gameplay: playing Chiv2 last night I was a bit disappointed.

    So: RMB to hold block. In chiv1 you rmb to block, your block only lasts a moment then drops, meaning timing is key. And therefore judging the timing correctly is an important skill.

    Currently chiv2 you can hold your block for ages, with stamina slowly dripping away. Now while the block can be broken by kicks or heavy attacks - that works fine in one on ones. But if you attack a group and one in the group simply holds their block as a defender, your attack will be absorbed by them meaning every bastard nearby hacks you to pieces before you can recover.

    To test this I grabbed a friend and did a combo of knight running up to and blocking enemies and me, with a maul, following them around and popping heads when people got blocked.

    The only time it didn’t really work is if you got surrounded or flanked, but chivalry doesn’t exactly harbour such team work or tactics. As long as you didn’t charge through a group of enemy you could easily decimate them. I played for a few hours last night and eventually left, not because I was tired and stayed up too late gaming, like happened when I started playing chiv1 many years ago, but because I was a bit bored of this gameplay.

    It did just seem like a big cluster of people LMB and overheading hoping to get lucky

    Also while gameplay speed is fine, windups seem to take an age.

    So for me the core gameplay while technically works, just isn’t as much fun as chivalry1

    P.s. it seems like it is trying to be like Mordhau when what your playerbase wants is a game that more like an updated, less buggy Chiv1. Hell, at least it’s not as bad as Mirage :P

  • @MonkeyFiend I agree with every single word you just said.
    I logged on here to write something similar but you beat me to it.

    The core gameplay lacks the soul that its predecessor had.
    Even the gore with its updated graphics lack the brutality and feel that the first one executed brilliantly.

    It’s like TB lack the confidence in their own game so they try to make it more like Mordhau instead of improving on it and letting it be its own thing.

    I also stopped playing the alpha today out of boredom and not because I got tired.
    I just lack the interest in the gameplay and objectives that I don’t in Chiv 1 and I’ve been playing steadily going on 9 years now.

    I WANT to like this sequel but as the moment it just feels bland. Although there are a lot of good points as you pointed out. The graphics are beautiful even on lower settings.

    I will not give up on this game just yet and I hope you hear us out in the future.
    Now, time to play Chiv 1

  • I agree with the hold to block being a bit dumb. It completely negates feinting

  • vastly improved today though, lots of 64 slot servers full of folks. on low settings I rechecked
    thinking it was medium or high but no it was on low vg. smoother models as for the other points
    well compared to servers full of tryhard spinning vans with high pings packet loss i’d say this is far better combat. Players just spam attacking or ganging up is to be expected esp now its got
    consoles in crossplay, revisit the beta or game release . slow windups? holding blocks bad?

    we can agree to disagree on those points, plus its nothing like mordhau or a mordhau wannabe.
    I’d imagine your used to clusters of lmb tryhards from chiv1 tbh no worthwhile sense in that statement tbh mf.

  • @MonkeyFiend

    Agreed. Kick and jab did nothing if enemies are holding block they just took a millisecond stagger and immediately blocking again my follow up attack.

    And how could a tiny knife can block without taking any stagger from a full charge big ass battle axe?

    It’s a blocking simulator game.

  • Utter rubbish, another one of his fanboys from his servers are you hehe.
    same advice if you can’t deal with a few spammers and new players from consoles or pc then
    uninstall and move on try something more simple perhaps an 8bit golden axe.

  • I definitly like the hold block thing in chiv2. I hate it in mordhau and it makes absolutly no sense! If you hold a shield than you fxxxxxx hold it. This needs stamina and i like the idea to burn stamina. But i agree kick and jab should be enhanced. In actual build “kick” is a little bit to slow i think. Feints should be stronger and the delay should be a little bit longer to feint your attack maybe.

    And many thanks for the other well done work tornbanner, this game make absolutly fun :-)

  • I dunno I have to agree with op, I’ve come from a tonne of hours in Chiv and more than a decent amount in Mordhau as well. My friends and I agree on a number of things we both like with Chivalry 2 but also on things we detest.

    Firstly massive agreeance on Graphics, atmosphere, vibe, enviro interactions as well as points like how heavy-handed some attacks felt and gritty they were.

    The main negative point we kept not enjoying time after time was the ‘Hold to block’ mechanic Chivalry 1 had parry blocks for momentary blocking, this introduces the need to strategize on timing. I have no doubt those playing previously or Mordhau know very well the dance of placement, and timing in every fight, whether it be a one on one or a group. The tutorial even talks about timing as well. But we noted that people aren’t trying to counter every time, everyone is just holding block past the window where other mechanics the tutorial introduced like dragging. In Chiv and Mord you’d drag swing to punish on blocking too early for the window to give damage, holding block completely strips the strategy away on those mechanics. And sure as above mentioned with the jab and kick being available but in my time in Chiv 2 it’s far less common than was intended by the devs nor impactful enough.

    If i was to give a complete opinion to make the overall experience more beneficial, for me and others ive discussed with, it would be to bring back proper team damage to prevent group spam, and completely removing the hold to block mechanic, and keep the block/counter aspect so that timing becomes a relevant and skill-based factor.

  • Wow quite the old thread! But relevent none-the-less.

    Ive been doing a lot of duels and Im not as opposed to the held-block as much as I used to be. People are already figureing out metas, and if people notice your block patterns, youll get kicked and murdered easily. A common one is that since you CAN hold block, people block immediately after their attack was parried, so you can riposte their attack into a kick since you learned they like to block at that moment. Its actually forming terrible habits for a lot of players that might be new to the genre, blocking out of anticipation rather then reaction.

    Another thing to consider, is the ease of doing counters. Its not nearly as hard as chambers in mord, so alot of people go for it. This is where all the different timings of normals/heavys/specials/feints actually start to mean something. You go for a tap-block-counter but they morph it into a different attack and youve blocked too soon. Esepcially heavy attacks, somtimes it looks like a drag or that there was a blip of lag and youve tap-blocked to soon. Granted though, once you notice theyre not going for a kick, you can just hold parry.

    Imagine if the only way you could get a counter or a riposte is if you got a “perfect parry”, where you block at the exact moment necessary. Now all these different attacks with their different timings and accels and drags would actually mean so much more, because people would always be fishing to get the counters and ripostes. You can still hold block if you want, you just dont get access to these really strong mechanics out of a held-block state. Idk, I doubt something like this will happen, riposte is soo strong and soo easy, its what makes the game more arcadey and less “sweaty”.

  • Yeah I know it was a little revival but I thought it better than to make a new thread and just voice my opinion, I do like some points you made @buderburg , and I’m sure in duels it’s more common ground to use appropriate counters to held or parries and don’t doubt that. But then you go into public lobbies where that kind of strategy and decision-making gets thrown out the window by new players to the medieval games. and true it does make the game arcadey with the hold-block and riposte I personally felt Chiv and Mord gained their charm through the skill bar from timings

  • I like holding block. It gives the game a bit more realism. Holding block negates feinting, yes, but it does not negate kicking which immensely decreases the stamina and guarantees you a hit. After receiving a few kicks most opponents usually tend to throw more attacks and parries. Holding block opens up a new way of fighting.

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