My final thoughts on the beta // My survey answers
yourcrippledson last edited by yourcrippledson
A notable downgrade in Chiv 2 are the voices. In Chiv 2 they are more “this line has 22 minutes”. Where Chiv 1 Vo lines were more “monty python”.
It’s like… Chiv 2 has ‘voices’, but Chiv 1 had ‘characters’.
Clunky vo controls
The way voice lines are used is straight up console trash. Just copy exactly how it worked in Chiv 1. Why take something that worked so well, and alter it into a more clunky form? The menu is pointless and gets in the way. Same with the emotes attached to the voice lines for no reason.
In mordhau and Chiv 1, you hit the neck the head comes off. In Chiv 2, the heads seem to pop off almost randomly. I will swing and clearly miss and get a hit so often, it seems really messy and would love to see what the hitboxes look like in debug mode, or just be nice to know how they actually work, because it doesn’t seem very precise at all. The precision of the first game is what made it addicting. Honing that into your own precision. What’s the point of sinking hundreds of hours into something that isn’t precise enough to be able to improve my own precision? I guess you don’t want the skill ceiling too high or console players will be screwed…
It felt like shit in Mordhau when they tried it so everybody told the devs to remove it. It feels bad here too. It rewards blind riposte spamming when it does work, and whether it actually works feels like a gamble. Why would you implement a mechanic that was so disliked that it was removed? But at the same time ignore really cool mechanics from Mordhau like clashes and chambers? I guess the hitbox issue prevents those mechanics.
yourcrippledson last edited by yourcrippledson
Here are my notes from the survey they sent out:
I feel like I am afraid to answer some questions the way I want to because I am thinking about the implications of my answers, the way you will take them vs the way I feel. Like when I say the controls aren’t easy to pick up, or overly clunky, I don’t want you to take that as you should go in a more casual direction with the game lol. But they are a little convoluted…
I almost think it was a mistake to trade in the elegance of the Chiv 1 controls just for a heavy attack. In chiv 1 I had scroll up = slash, scroll down = overhead, and MMB as alt attack, so I could press and scroll in one smooth motion to do alt attacks. Now you introduce heavy attacks which you have to hold down the button to perform while your game has always relied on scroll wheel for attacking. This change alone makes it seem like a console game first and foremost now, with the default pc binds barely being tested or even thought of very much. And the mechanical changes made from Chiv 1 mostly made with console players in mind.
I feel like the combat controls require too many buttons. Mostly which don’t add to the mechanical depth of the game, only complicate it. I feel all that is needed are the main 3, overheads, stabs, and slashes, being able to alternate sides means there’s already six different attacks here. This combined with feints and drags should be more than enough to get around a parry, or decide the stamina battle. Let alone now we can also morph these attacks together. But again, the lack of precision in the hitboxes, combined with the increase in reliance on more attack types and seemingly unnecessary mechanics to make up for reduced movement precision for joystick users, just screams CONSOLE GAME! Which is a real shame.
The fact these games use precise real-time swings in first person is the unique aspect which gives the combat potential to be simple and intuitive, but at the same time retain enormous depth due to the freedom of movement drags and timing tricks provide. All of this can be contained to the basic mouse buttons with a modifier for alt attacks. But this potential seems wasted. Now I have to bind a shove as well as a kick. a heavy attack as well as an alt attack. a special attack as well as a sprint attack. And a throw. So in essence, I feel like you’ve complicated the game, and clunkified the game, while at the same time removing much of the depth from the game, and lowering the skill ceiling overall to accommodate console players.
If I were designing default binds for PC, (ignoring all of the mechanical changes I would make like removing held parry and active parry), I would bind throw and shove to the mouse wheel, or throw and special attack. Something that doesn’t have a heavy attack on the mouse wheel, because having attacks that have a hold function mapped to buttons that cannot be held is objectively bad design.
When I make my binds I want to have everything my character can do with his hands on the mouse. All attacks, all alt attacks including heavy, the sprint attack, the shove, the special attack.
And everything that has to do with my characters feet on the keyboard. So, all movement, plus kick.
Organized, intuitive, simple.
Only it’s not simple now, because you have given me like 15 binds for my mouse lol. So I just get a headache trying to bind everything how I like. Which isn’t helped when the buttons I bind keep not registering for no reason also…
Also I find it baffling that you don’t seem to mind adding so many new binds, but are content to remove the bind for “dodge” instead combining dodge and jump together, which is really annoying as these serve 2 completely different functions in combat.
Next part of the survey:
Mostly covered this in controls. but…
Chivalry 1 had a heavy emphasis on movement. This included mouse movement as well as heavy footwork, requiring you to look away from the enemy a lot of the time. This has been toned down significantly for the more mechanical button heavy combat style to accommodate the influx of console players this time around. Most of whom cannot reliably move with such grace and precision while attacking and defending while using a comparatively clunky slow joystick. This is a real shame.
And since the entire game is based around this and I am in the vast minority, despite being an experienced chiv vet, my opinions on this aren’t going to matter at all.
All in all it’s functional, which is what you were going for, so you nailed it. Just not the masterpiece of real-time action combat Chiv 1 somehow managed to be.
- Easy to get into? Worth getting into?
Depends what you’re after. If you want a functional game with spectacle, and you will be satisfied if you can walk into the crowd swinging wildly, as long as you can pick up a few kills, have a few close calls, and have it almost feel like an actual battle, you will likely be satisfied for a few hours.
If you came here from Chiv 1 hoping to find the same level of depth to sink your dagger, arrows, sword, or maul into for thousands upon thousands of hours… I feel like Mordhau currently offers more in that regard. (and that is a game I stopped playing after less than a thousand hours because it felt unfinished… maybe I will go back to it now? Maybe I can better appreciate the things it does right…)
You’ve made a game of spectacle. Which will get the console plebs to buy it. Where Chiv 1 was a game of depth (intended or otherwise), which had pc players and console players alike playing it for thousands of hours. I can’t imagine this game pulling off the same thing with as many players. We’ll see…