Turning your character during attacking



    1. Attacks in general should take less time than in aoc
    2. Turning your character during attacking should be limited to how much one’s arm can realistically bend from ones body as the arms position is fixed when striking, this means when one turns during striking, the strike still goes to the same place as if you hadnt turned your character. Why? Because the direction of the momentum is decided when the attack is started and changing it is as good as cancelling the momentum. Now we can’t control the players necks movement seperately, but i think the center of the screen and the view of the player should turn with the character in this case, just that his hand would remain striking in the place it originally intended to.

    Thoughts?



    1. As you can see in the developer blogs, the pacing of the fights is already a lot faster than in AoC.
    2. I believe Tibberius said that you will be able to adjust the path of your weapon during your swing, but the extent to which that is possible depends on the weight of the weapon, which is, imo, a brilliant system. Here’s the quote:

    Yes this it is absolutely possible to adjust to your opponents action and try to “catch him” anyway. However in Chivalry weapons have simulated weights which effect how agile they are during their swing. So you’ll find it easier to adjust a large degree in time with a dagger than a battle axe.



  • Thanks for the info, however i believe my argument in nr.2 is compelling enough not to have such a thing.



  • Regarding point #1, there are some fairly slow attacks in Age of Chivalry, but there are also some incredibly fast attacks that would never make it into Chivalry due to network & average human reaction times, such as MAA Shield stab, Knight stab, Heavy Knight stab etc. One of the things we’ve been looking at very closely is eliminating all of the flaws Age of Chivalry had with regards to combat timings, so there’ll be no ‘wtf moments’ and things that just simply aren’t supposed to happen.

    As for your second point, one of the biggest issues Age of Chivalry had was people ‘dancing’, that is running around, performing 180s, 360s, and simply spinning rapidly to avoid attacks. In Chivalry, you simply cannot do this, you really want to be facing your opponent ALL of the time and you want to be keeping an eye on what moves your opponent is about to pull off so you can react accordingly. As Tibberius said, there will be simulated weapon weights, which really does allow you to truly feel how heavy your weapon is and you won’t be able to pull off any crazy movements. It makes for some amazing, more engaging combat, unlike Age of Chivalry in the sense that you would rather avoid an attack than parry/block it, which is really not very realistic anyway.



  • @Blaine:

    Regarding point #1, that would never make it into Chivalry due to network & average human reaction times, such as MAA Shield stab, Knight stab, Heavy Knight stab etc.

    NOOOOOOO my stab!



  • @Blaine:

    Regarding point #1, there are some fairly slow attacks in Age of Chivalry, but there are also some incredibly fast attacks that would never make it into Chivalry due to network & average human reaction times, such as MAA Shield stab, Knight stab, Heavy Knight stab

    As for your second point, one of the biggest issues Age of Chivalry had was people ‘dancing’, that is running around, performing 180s, 360s, and simply spinning rapidly to avoid attacks. In Chivalry, you simply cannot do this

    That is quite exactly my playstyle. Run around turning and twisting at inhuman speeds to confuse my opponent and land a neat little stab into their face.

    You are so mean… cries


  • Developer

    Adjusting your swing in real time is a foundational aspect of the melee combat system, it will always remain in place. However, I understand your concerns with such a system because in Age of Chivalry it was open to widespread abuse. We know this, and we’ve put measures into place (such as simulated weights to weapons) to prevent players from abusing the realtime strikes feature and to make it still feel like your able to swing the weapon with your own hand. If we remove this ability, I feel like we move to a much more static melee combat system that you see in plenty of other 3rd person games.

    Also I’d like to clarify that its fully possible to still be elusive and “dance” with good footwork to avoid strikes and land counters. So your playstyle is not being removed, it’s actually being supported by the games combat system as opposed to forcing you to exploit the game to be elusive as was the case in AOC.



  • I feel the elusiveness should be achieved by evading, avoiding, dodging and crouching but mostly evading which i’ve heard sadly will not be in the game. This would provide a fully proffessional approach to what is definitely a valid playstyle. Backing up and dodging left and right should definitely be a valid choice to avoid a blow for lightly armed classes as the game provides a more duel-style approach to combat than what was realistically a formation-style combat.


  • Developer

    Very confused by your last post as evasion is extremely important in Chivalry for staying alive and its more than possible to do the things you listed such as backing up and dodging as shown in the recent developer blog. Care to clarify?



  • Evading as in bending your upper body to the left or right or behind is not possible in age of chivalry. What i mean is that this and dodging should completely replace the so called “dancing” in age of chivalry.


  • Developer

    I’ll use the term “leaning” to describe what your talking about as evading because it makes more sense to me that way. Leaning is not a feature because it would not be effective in the game. It is relatively easy to adjust your mouse enough to make up for the fact that your opponent has leaned one way or another and I also see leaning falling apart in mass combat. If two opponents attack me at once, I can dodge or use footwork to stay out of range or bring the environment situation to my advantage (gain high ground etc.). Whereas if leaning replaces those abilities, Im a fish in a barrel against two opponents.



  • @Sultanofswing:

    Evading as in bending your upper body to the left or right or behind is not possible in age of chivalry. What i mean is that this and dodging should completely replace the so called “dancing” in age of chivalry.

    Evasion in the way you describe it is a nearly nonexistant part of real life swordplay. Look up video’s about longsword techniques(I posted a fairly decent one in the other topic). You’ll see ‘dancing’ alright, but you won’t see Hollywood dodges.

    Evasion in real swordplay is much more about staying out of reach than it is about ducking and bending and whatever. It’s, simply put, not possible to move your body out of the way at an adequate speed, as the sword will always be too fast for that. When you’re in your opponent’s reach, and you need to defend yourself, you’ll resort to parrying, wrestling or getting out of reach as fast as possible. You won’t try capoeira moves, as that’ll get you killed.



  • Thats really cool to know, but in real combat you would have no room to dance around because an opponent or ally would be at your every shoulder fighting alonside you. In real life you would block and attack your opponent rather than dance around or stay out of range because if you did you would bounce into people and your enemy would get at you.
    Also i looked at your videos of swordplay and saw no dancing around instead i saw “leaning”. Take a look at this video at 00;13, 00;24 for example; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsGU5KI1qJA
    Now being serious, A game should strive to be realistic, but some things such as making people behave like they would in real life you can’t do because it might utterly break the fun. Therefore simulated formation combat would be purely recreational and not a game. So mass combat would hardly exist in the game and two people against you is not mass combat either!
    @Tibberius:

    It is relatively easy to adjust your mouse enough to make up for the fact that your opponent has leaned one way or another

    Thats why adjusting your mouse wouldnt be possible according to my suggestion and according to basic laws of physics as i’ve stated before.



  • @Sultanofswing:

    Thats really cool to know, but in real combat you would have no room to dance around because an opponent or ally would be at your every shoulder fighting alonside you. In real life you would block and attack your opponent rather than dance around or stay out of range because if you did you would bounce into people and your enemy would get at you.

    That’s indeed the case in formation warfare. But formation warfare if vastly different from dueling. You will use other weapons and completely different techniques. From the looks of it, Chivalry is not going to be about formations, but more about individual swordplay, so while your statement is certainly right, it’s irrelevant to the game.

    I know a good video about formation warfare. I’m not trying to make a point, it’s just for your interest:
    Ixm6sXe1TYE
    Their equipment is actually from the Dark Ages, which is earlier than Chivalry’s setting, but the commentary is very informative.

    Also i looked at your videos of swordplay and saw no dancing around instead i saw “leaning”. Take a look at this video at 00;13, 00;24 for example; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsGU5KI1qJA

    Of course there’s leaning involved, but it’s practically always (I saw one exception in your video) supplemented by parrying. That video is also a demonstration of combat techniques (probably from a fechtbuch), not an actual sparring. They both know what is going to happen before they do it and perform an absolutely perfect execution, which is not a realistic representation of an actual fight.

    What I meant with dancing is of course not the dancing around you see in AoC, but rather the way swordsmen handle range. Both combatants will quickly weave in and out of reach for attack and defense, and they won’t stay in eachother’s reach any longer than necessary to make their own attack. So yea, it’s not exactly dancing, it’s footwork. I used the term dancing, as in ‘dancing, as opposed to the evasion you describe’.

    Now being serious, A game should strive to be realistic, but some things such as making people behave like they would in real life you can’t do because it might utterly break the fun. Therefore simulated formation combat would be purely recreational and not a game. So mass combat would hardly exist in the game and two people against you is not mass combat either!

    I never said there should be formation combat, I never said anything about mass combat, and I never said that combat should be perfectly realistic. You were making a point about how you thought realistic combat looked like, and I disagreed with that. In fact, I wasn’t even talking about the game. It’s pefectly fine with me if you want to use realism arguments, but if these arguments are, in my opinion, not correct, then I will contradict them, regardless of my opinion on whether or not they should be implemented in the game.


Log in to reply