Archers need a serious nerf!



  • Coming from a guy who has been playing competitive games for decades, the Archers are straight up broken from a competitive standpoint. They’ve an unlimited pool of arrows, can just sit back in spawn and rain down hell on the Battlefield. They currently have no real counter and a good Archer is taking you out before you get close.

    I’ve the achvement for more than 100 kills with a bow, thoroughly tested the class. It’s easy mode and completely unbalanced for a game that’s heavily focused on close quarters combat.

    I believe Archers should have a reduced walk/run speed. Nothing more annoying than getting in close to an archer, for them to run backwards and drag you into a group of enemies. They shouldn’t have a secondary either, it’s difficult enough to get in close to an Archer and you should be rewarded with an easy kill.

    Even with the mentioned balance changes, still believe they would be slightly OP. What does the community think abouts the Archers? Feel free to leave your thoughts guys and how do you think the class should be balanced?



  • What a joke. I see this complaint far too much.

    1.) Archer is the ONLY class that is required to aim attacks. All other classes can spam LMB and faceroll over the keyboard and get kills. In better words. Archer is high skill floor and high skill ceiling. The other classes are generally low to very low skill floor

    2.) A really good player with a crossbow will stand above and beyond the rest simply because it has the best bonuses against the MOST POPULATED class(es). Imagine that. A counter system that is functioning in some way.

    3.) Longbow is pretty much garbage. It is like using stone age bow and arrow tech against plate and chain. Ever heard of bodkins? Also balance is paramount in an arcade game anyway. No single archer subclass should have the ability to excel against all other classes. With that said, there are better ways to make them all competitive and unique. Add a bleeding effect into the game. You already have burning. So the mechanics behind DoT is already built into the game. Longbows should be steel tipped broadheads and should do a little less on hit damage than current but should do bleeding damage over time. Independent of where the arrow struck. Maybe 50 health over 5s unless bandaged/healed with 25% less on hit damage from current.

    4.) Skirmisher is arguably the highest floor of them all. Javelins are so easy to block it is silly. Additionally the damage is a joke. I have seen Knights walk around with 2 sticking out of their noggin from lucky follow up throws. Again cheating is pretty rampant in Chiv 2 as it is but that is a different story all together. I think in combination with number 2, Javelins should also cause bleeding but to a much lesser extent than longbow but also NOT receive a damage nerf in combination with the DoT. Maybe 18 damage over 3s. Skirmisher should also get a stamina buff. Maybe +20 so they have 80 stamina total. Skirmisher javelin and axe throws should also be a toggle. Tapping G the first time should pretty much put the Skirmisher into the position of being ready to throw and a second press should be the actual throw. This would allow more proper and skilled aiming, especially for such an easy to block, slow moving (easy to team kill with as well), weapon.

    5.) As for melee. Crossbow is already the strongest at range. Even though this is mainly due to being the best counter against the easiest and most played class(es). Hell, Knight skill floor and some of the vanguard weapons as well pretty much share a depth equal to that of the Titanic resting place they are so mind numbingly easy mode. With that said, make Crossbow a little weaker in melee. Keep Crossbow weapons the shortest range option of all of the archer subclasses as far as melee weapon choices. Knife, dagger, and the like would be best. Also give Crossbow a small max stamina nerf. Maybe -10. So 50 stamina instead of 60. In the end with all of the above. Longbow would have 60 stam, Crossbow would have 50, and Skirmisher would have 80.



  • @ShadowbaneR said in Archers need a serious nerf!:

    What a joke. I see this complaint far too much.

    1.) Archer is the ONLY class that is required to aim attacks. All other classes can spam LMB and faceroll over the keyboard and get kills. In better words. Archer is high skill floor and high skill ceiling. The other classes are generally low to very low skill floor

    2.) A really good player with a crossbow will stand above and beyond the rest simply because it has the best bonuses against the MOST POPULATED class(es). Imagine that. A counter system that is functioning in some way.

    3.) Longbow is pretty much garbage. It is like using stone age bow and arrow tech against plate and chain. Ever heard of bodkins? Also balance is paramount in an arcade game anyway. No single archer subclass should have the ability to excel against all other classes. With that said, there are better ways to make them all competitive and unique. Add a bleeding effect into the game. You already have burning. So the mechanics behind DoT is already built into the game. Longbows should be steel tipped broadheads and should do a little less on hit damage than current but should do bleeding damage over time. Independent of where the arrow struck. Maybe 50 health over 5s unless bandaged/healed with 25% less on hit damage from current.

    4.) Skirmisher is arguably the highest floor of them all. Javelins are so easy to block it is silly. Additionally the damage is a joke. I have seen Knights walk around with 2 sticking out of their noggin from lucky follow up throws. Again cheating is pretty rampant in Chiv 2 as it is but that is a different story all together. I think in combination with number 2, Javelins should also cause bleeding but to a much lesser extent than longbow but also NOT receive a damage nerf in combination with the DoT. Maybe 18 damage over 3s. Skirmisher should also get a stamina buff. Maybe +20 so they have 80 stamina total. Skirmisher javelin and axe throws should also be a toggle. Tapping G the first time should pretty much put the Skirmisher into the position of being ready to throw and a second press should be the actual throw. This would allow more proper and skilled aiming, especially for such an easy to block, slow moving (easy to team kill with as well), weapon.

    5.) As for melee. Crossbow is already the strongest at range. Even though this is mainly due to being the best counter against the easiest and most played class(es). Hell, Knight skill floor and some of the vanguard weapons as well pretty much share a depth equal to that of the Titanic resting place they are so mind numbingly easy mode. With that said, make Crossbow a little weaker in melee. Keep Crossbow weapons the shortest range option of all of the archer subclasses as far as melee weapon choices. Knife, dagger, and the like would be best. Also give Crossbow a small max stamina nerf. Maybe -10. So 50 stamina instead of 60. In the end with all of the above. Longbow would have 60 stam, Crossbow would have 50, and Skirmisher would have 80.

    You’re an obvious Archer main.

    1. Bs, you clearly aren’t good at dueling. There is a high skill celling to sword play in the game. The counter, feint mechanics mean spamming the same move will get you nowhere against any good player. I suggest you look up some YouTube videos with top level sword play before spouting nonsense. Have you played the game on console? The auto aim in Chivalry 2 is the equivalent to COD zombies. It has a strong sticky lock on for easy no skill arrow kills. You can spam arrows and get easy kills from distance.

    2. A good archer will stand above the rest because it’s overpowered and has no real counter. The game has three CQC classes, my previous post explains why Archers are OP.

    3. You’re asking for a buff for the most simplistic one dimensional OP class in the game? Get a grip, the archer class is completely unbalanced and overpowered. When asking for a buff, it’s a good idea to give the devs a good reason for a buff.

    4. Javelins are also OP. Skirmishers just spam their 4 Javelins into the backs of enemies who’re already in duels. They keep one Javelin on them, incase they’re ambushed by a single enemy, while they cowardly run back to the chest for a fresh 5 Javelins.

    5. You admitted the crossbow is overpowered, acknowledge that the class needs balancing and cheers.



  • @GoldenAxe said in Archers need a serious nerf!:

    @ShadowbaneR said in Archers need a serious nerf!:

    What a joke. I see this complaint far too much.

    1.) Archer is the ONLY class that is required to aim attacks. All other classes can spam LMB and faceroll over the keyboard and get kills. In better words. Archer is high skill floor and high skill ceiling. The other classes are generally low to very low skill floor

    2.) A really good player with a crossbow will stand above and beyond the rest simply because it has the best bonuses against the MOST POPULATED class(es). Imagine that. A counter system that is functioning in some way.

    3.) Longbow is pretty much garbage. It is like using stone age bow and arrow tech against plate and chain. Ever heard of bodkins? Also balance is paramount in an arcade game anyway. No single archer subclass should have the ability to excel against all other classes. With that said, there are better ways to make them all competitive and unique. Add a bleeding effect into the game. You already have burning. So the mechanics behind DoT is already built into the game. Longbows should be steel tipped broadheads and should do a little less on hit damage than current but should do bleeding damage over time. Independent of where the arrow struck. Maybe 50 health over 5s unless bandaged/healed with 25% less on hit damage from current.

    4.) Skirmisher is arguably the highest floor of them all. Javelins are so easy to block it is silly. Additionally the damage is a joke. I have seen Knights walk around with 2 sticking out of their noggin from lucky follow up throws. Again cheating is pretty rampant in Chiv 2 as it is but that is a different story all together. I think in combination with number 2, Javelins should also cause bleeding but to a much lesser extent than longbow but also NOT receive a damage nerf in combination with the DoT. Maybe 18 damage over 3s. Skirmisher should also get a stamina buff. Maybe +20 so they have 80 stamina total. Skirmisher javelin and axe throws should also be a toggle. Tapping G the first time should pretty much put the Skirmisher into the position of being ready to throw and a second press should be the actual throw. This would allow more proper and skilled aiming, especially for such an easy to block, slow moving (easy to team kill with as well), weapon.

    5.) As for melee. Crossbow is already the strongest at range. Even though this is mainly due to being the best counter against the easiest and most played class(es). Hell, Knight skill floor and some of the vanguard weapons as well pretty much share a depth equal to that of the Titanic resting place they are so mind numbingly easy mode. With that said, make Crossbow a little weaker in melee. Keep Crossbow weapons the shortest range option of all of the archer subclasses as far as melee weapon choices. Knife, dagger, and the like would be best. Also give Crossbow a small max stamina nerf. Maybe -10. So 50 stamina instead of 60. In the end with all of the above. Longbow would have 60 stam, Crossbow would have 50, and Skirmisher would have 80.

    You’re an obvious Archer main.

    1. Bs, you clearly aren’t good at dueling. There is a high skill celling to sword play in the game. The counter, feint mechanics mean spamming the same move will get you nowhere against any good player. I suggest you look up some YouTube videos with top level sword play before spouting nonsense. Have you played the game on console? The auto aim in Chivalry 2 is the equivalent to COD zombies. It has a strong sticky lock on for easy no skill arrow kills. You can spam arrows and get easy kills from distance.

    2. A good archer will stand above the rest because it’s overpowered and has no real counter. The game has three CQC classes, my previous post explains why Archers are OP.

    3. You’re asking for a buff for the most simplistic one dimensional OP class in the game? Get a grip, the archer class is completely unbalanced and overpowered. When asking for a buff, it’s a good idea to give the devs a good reason for a buff.

    4. Javelins are also OP. Skirmishers just spam their 4 Javelins into the backs of enemies who’re already in duels. They keep one Javelin on them, incase they’re ambushed by a single enemy, while they cowardly run back to the chest for a fresh 5 Javelins.

    5. You admitted the crossbow is overpowered, acknowledge that the class needs balancing and cheers.

    I would suggest less emotion and more logic.

    1.) Nice logical fallacies. Clearly because you were refuted and lack any real counter argument of substance I am somehow bad at this game. This isn’t an uncommon response.

    2.) “The counter, feint mechanics mean spamming the same move will get you nowhere against any good player”. You are describing specific scenarios where you are somehow alone in a game built around large team vs team combat, where you are facing a player of high skill. This does nothing for your argument. I also clearly stated that all of the non archer classes have very low skill floor*. I will chalk this up to reading comprehension issues and probably a lack of understanding of how floor and ceiling pertain to balance overall. If you create a game with multiple archetypes. You have two choices for skill input vs performance output. A, all archetypes have relatively the same floor and ceiling, as in low floor and high ceiling. The high ceiling would pertain to the maximum capability of mechanics available and not the classes themselves. or… B, all archetypes have differing floors and ceilings but have the same gap between floor and ceiling. This means one class could be high floor and high ceiling, but then if another class is low floor it must be low ceiling. Any other scenario that detracts from either A or B is automatically broken from the gate. The only way it can be balanced for Knights, MaA, and Vanguards to have such a low skill floor and high skill ceiling is if that is generally the case for ALL classes and the high ceiling is limited to the capabilities of more specific mechanics, or even in Chiv 2 case, 1h weapons would be the high ceiling.
    That is the only way it can be balanced. If 2h weapons are capable of running in and lmb spam for multi kills ez mode (which they are hands down), they are broken and overpowered if they are also good if they are highly competitive in a high skill group facing another high skill group.

    3.) A good archer will only stand above the rest if they are more skilled than the rest. Floor vs Ceiling. You clearly do not know what “overpowered” even means.

    4.) SO your claim is that the highest floor class is also the most “simplistic” and “one dimensional” when there are other classes which are built around 2h lmb spam spam AND have higher armor and HP to boot? Amusing.

    5.) This pretty much sums up how every argument you have made falls flat on its face.
    "Skirmishers just spam their 4 Javelins into the backs of enemies who’re already in duels. ".
    The game is not built around duels. Anyone can strike anyone in the back at any time no matter if they are in combat or not. If anything it is highly suggested players do so if they come across that situation as it is more effective and more likely resulting in a win of that micro engagement. Currently it is also FAR more effective to just swing spam into peoples backs and get multi kills than aim a Javelin with a slow clunky animation, for low damage. So yes. Skirmisher does need a buff.

    6.) Reading comprehension fail here as well. Clearly what I stated was that the performance of Crossbow compared to the other Archer subclasses needs to be toned down slightly because it is too good in all situations which overshadows the other archer subclasses which also need specific buffs themselves (which is also why the nerf requested was minor). So whilst Crossbow is overtuned compared to the OTHER archer subclasses, it is NOT overtuned compared to ALL of the classes in comparison.



  • I think you just feel frustrated but really the archer seems balanced to me. I haven’t played archer on Chivalry 1, but I heard it was worse or did more damage in that game according to this forum:

    https://forums.tornbanner.com/topic/30012/damage-is-unbalanced-archer/2

    It takes me 3 arrows to kill someone with the level1 bow, while its 2 arrows for the crossbow. the reload time for the crossbow takes awhile, so i think its balanced on that.


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