Make blocking be possible during attacking



  • In conjunction with my other 3 suggestions here;
    viewtopic.php?f=8&t=813
    viewtopic.php?f=8&t=814
    viewtopic.php?f=8&t=815
    Since if the strike would land in the same place regardless of the facing of the character, it would be less important ( during striking ). Additionally if attack direction was controlled by WASD key pressed before attack key was pressed rather than character facing through mouse movement, it would leave the mouse movement open to control the shield, which should be possible to be done during attacks. So first of all you set an attack in motion by pressing WASD and attack key and then you are free to press and hold right mouse button to bring up the shield and use your mouse to control its direction.

    Thoughts?



  • Tbh I want my WASD for running around. With your system, you will always run in the direction you’re attacking in, which is quite suicidal if you want to get your blow in and get out quickly again (lighter classes)

    Also, blocking during attacking in a Chivalry setting would be ridiculously powerful, since you would be capable of killing anyone while not getting hit by anything but a firepot.



  • Massive no on this one. For gameplay reasons, a player should be vulnerable while attacking and unable to attack while defending. This may sound good in theory, but it’ll be horribly counterintuitive and needlessly complicated when playing.



  • I like my movement and my combat in separate hands, otherwise it could be pretty confusing to get used to, not to mention the limitations! “I need to move forward, but if I do, I will do the wrong attack”.



  • Blocking and attacking at the same time?Try to imagine a fight between two guys blocking and attacking simultaneous……would not be fun at all imo.



  • @Falc:

    Blocking and attacking at the same time?Try to imagine a fight between two guys blocking and attacking simultaneous……would not be fun at all imo.

    I think it would be on the Wii!



  • @dragonfury:

    Tbh I want my WASD for running around. With your system, you will always run in the direction you’re attacking in, which is quite suicidal if you want to get your blow in and get out quickly again (lighter classes)

    Also, blocking during attacking in a Chivalry setting would be ridiculously powerful, since you would be capable of killing anyone while not getting hit by anything but a firepot.

    Sorry but i don’t need retarded replys to my suggestions. First of all this thread is about blocking while attacking not about whether to use WASD for attack directions or not. Secondly you press the WASD key for just a moment before attacking, so that small moment is all the time you are “disabled” for. have you played severance and are you implying it did’nt work there? Why wouldnt it work here? Please don’t reply here again before you have played through that game. ( and maybe acquired some second hand sense )
    @TheNarrator:

    Massive no on this one. For gameplay reasons, a player should be vulnerable while attacking and unable to attack while defending. This may sound good in theory, but it’ll be horribly counterintuitive and needlessly complicated when playing.

    @Blaine:

    I like my movement and my combat in separate hands, otherwise it could be pretty confusing to get used to, not to mention the limitations! “I need to move forward, but if I do, I will do the wrong attack”.

    Limitations and complicacy is all good stuff, i can’t believe you dont like it. Thats why experienced players play the sergeant class in AoC, because they want to limit themselves in order to increase the challenge, because let’s be honest, when two players of the same skill level meet and one is heavy knight, the other sergeant, the sergeant is going to lose most of the time. What my suggestions would do is make more challenging gameplay casually appliciable.
    @Blaine:

    @Falc:

    Blocking and attacking at the same time?Try to imagine a fight between two guys blocking and attacking simultaneous……would not be fun at all imo.

    I think it would be on the Wii!

    Because Wii has superior input devices? You know what, I don’t think Wii has superior input devices and i think my suggestions are fully appliciable with the input devices we have - keyboard and mouse.
    @Falc:

    Blocking and attacking at the same time?Try to imagine a fight between two guys blocking and attacking simultaneous……would not be fun at all imo.

    Blocking and attacking at different times?Try to imagine a fight between two guys blocking and attacking unsimultaneously……would not be fun at all imo.
    Thats my reply to your post.
    On a more serious note, do you think " one guy attacks, then the other guy attacks and some guy occasionally blocks" is more fun over a system where every action is a risk and a tactical decision ( sort of like in real life ) ?



  • @Sultanofswing:

    Sorry but i don’t need retarded replys to my suggestions. First of all this thread is about blocking while attacking not about whether to use WASD for attack directions or not. Secondly you press the WASD key for just a moment before attacking, so that small moment is all the time you are “disabled” for. have you played severance and are you implying it did’nt work there? Why wouldnt it work here? Please don’t reply here again before you have played through that game. ( and maybe acquired some second hand sense )

    Firtly…massive assenine reply. You mentioned using WASD for attacking in your post, he responded to WASD for attacking. Also, the reason it wouldn’t work is because it’s a different game altogether with a different feel for the combat, and a different method of attack. Have you played Mount & Blade? It had a similar directional attack system. Use WASD for attack and block. That made it a slower game because you can’t dodge attacks right after you make them. How would you do a hit-‘n’-run? How would you charge in? Besides, they already have the combat system in place, this would force them to completely redesign the system and put this other system in that has no place in the game they are making. Just because Call of Duty 4 has machine guns doesn’t mean Battlefield 3 should use their system.

    @Sultanofswing:

    Limitations and complicacy is all good stuff, i can’t believe you dont like it. Thats why experienced players play the sergeant class in AoC, because they want to limit themselves in order to increase the challenge, because let’s be honest, when two players of the same skill level meet and one is heavy knight, the other sergeant, the sergeant is going to lose most of the time. What my suggestions would do is make more challenging gameplay casually appliciable.

    But at the same time screwing with the balance that has already been established. Besides that, it WILL be very complicated. It’s not going to be easy for casual players to pick up, because they will not understand. “Why did I make this attack when I went this way, rather than that way?” Or they want to stab and move to the left “Why did I decapitate my friend when I wanted to stab my enemy?” This increases the firnedly fire incidentspbecause people would not be able to figure it out. You’re saying casual players will be able to instantly understand how to play the game. What I’m saying is that you have to cater to a lower denominator. If you’re only medieval experiance is playing Oblivion, or Assassin’s Creed, you’re not going to be able to just jump in to this kind of system. It’s WAY too complex.

    @Sultanofswing:

    Because Wii has superior input devices? You know what, I don’t think Wii has superior input devices and i think my suggestions are fully appliciable with the input devices we have - keyboard and mouse.

    I think you are understating the complexity. How would you be able to tell? How would the enemy be able to tell? How can you block one side while attacking the other? How can you block at the same time that you can attack? How would it work? This is a first-person game. You can’t see to the sides or to the back. You only see what is in front of you. You block, you lose your vision. You attack while blocking, and it’s like blindfiring. It’s not effective. You can’t physically do it in the real world without either losing your balance, or having so little strength, that it just wastes your energy. The input devices avalable to us as humans would barely work. They’re not inferior, it’s just not possible.

    @Sultanofswing:

    Blocking and attacking at different times?Try to imagine a fight between two guys blocking and attacking unsimultaneously……would not be fun at all imo.
    Thats my reply to your post.
    On a more serious note, do you think " one guy attacks, then the other guy attacks and some guy occasionally blocks" is more fun over a system where every action is a risk and a tactical decision ( sort of like in real life ) ?

    That’s exactly what Chivaly is right now. What you’re saying would just make it so that everyone is blocking and attacking at the same time. No one can hit anything because no one can see and no one can hit. They can’t see because they’re blocking, and they can’t hit, because everyone is blocking. The only ones that can do anything are the guys shooting arrows at the exposed backs and sides of the people who are in the middle of the fray, or the people that leave themselves open to backstab every turtling idiot. By the time people got used to playing it, it would end up being an over-complicated version of the system we have now. People blocking when others attack them, and finding an opening in someone’s defence. Just the way it is now.

    Rather than being rude and obnoxious in your replies, how about you actually think about the points brought up in conversation?



  • @Sultanofswing:

    Sorry but i don’t need retarded replys to my suggestions.

    Okay, what online game did you get pwned in just before making that reply? M&B? counterstrike? AoC? Because obviously your temper is quite bad. Here, listen to this http://www.nyan.cat/

    I responded to the things you have mentioned, in one thread. That’s illegal and makes me retarded? Woah. Also, I don’t always explain everything in full detail because I’m not always as patient as, say, TheNarrator, since I assume other people have a brain and will interpret what I say and think about it instead of going “Oh dear, he’s opposed to my suggestion, BURN THE HERETIC!”. I must say, though, that this optimistic view has left me disappointed quite many times.

    I’ve played 300-ish hours of Age of Chivalry, have taken a look at other melee games’ combat systems but not played them. I have an analytical mind. In AoC, and in CMW, since CMW will have roughly the same basics as AoC, and with what I’ve seen and heard so far, combat is fast. I interpret your suggestion and place it in this scenario. With your suggestion, even if only for a split second, people will either move in a certain direction because they want to access the attack bound in it or they will stand still (If WASD is disabled during attacking for making the attack).

    Your suggestion is a radical change. After analysis, I think especially the WASD used in attacking would be a great obstacle for newbies. Not because it’s hard to master, but because it simply feels strange if you’re used to, say, Call of Duty. The current AoC-style system is easy to start out with, intuitive, and deep. This game still has to sell and make $$$, mind you. In AoC, light classes can’t afford to stop dodging for a second, and I guess in CMW it will be the same. If you really think more advanced attacks are better, then why didn’t you suggest something more ‘natural’, say, doing a combo of 2 attack buttons does another attack -> Slash + overhead buttons = a diagonal attack, or whatever pleases you.

    “Experienced Sergeant Vs experienced HK, the Sergeant will lose” I don’t consider myself a real pr0, since I haven’t taken part in scrims and the sorts, but, I usually top pub server leaderboards, and I must say, there are ways for sergeants to beat experienced heavies. Their attacks are fast enough to block the HK’s attack, get a shield overhead in, and block again by the time the HK attacks. Sergeant is about zerging your opponents when they’re vulnerable and tanking/blocking when they attack.

    Anyways, I’ll leave the discussion about the comparison of other game’s mechanics to AoC/CMW one’s to more experienced people. Just that I haven’t played every game that you mention, doesn’t mean I’m retarded, kthxbai.

    Oh, and, by calling me a retard for replying, you just reduced your chances of being taken seriously by 50%. If you do feel like seriously debating a gameplay element, suck up your anger, I’m not the one to blame for whatever makes you angry.



  • The insult to Dragonfury was indeed completely uncalled for. If you disagree with what he says, then have the decency of arguing to the point, not to the person. And if you find that he didn’t elaborate enough, you could, I don’t know, just ask him to explain his view in more detail. What’s even more irritating is that you insult dragonfury because, according to you, he doesn’t respond to the point you were making in this thread, completely disregarding that he actually did. Yes, he did write about the WASD-slash directions, but he also addressed your point. You ignored that and went on ONLY about the attack directions.

    If you are entering a discussion there’s one way to be absolutely certain to lose it, and that is to piss off the people you’re arguing against. The point of a discussion is convincing others to see things your way, and making them angry at you will only make them more determined in their own point of view. You were also clearly the aggressor, your remark was completely unprovoked. That makes you lose credibility in the entire community.



  • completely agree, making blocking possible during attacking?- huh and you think we half-bake our comments. Just think for a second about that “i can’t attack this dude cuz hes got a longer range weapon and if i do go inside/outside his attack it won’t do aanything cuz hes somehow got his shield/weapon back in the way”. overall all become indestructible with big shield, big weapon and lots of armour except to as what blaine said somewhere, oilpots.
    btw sergant class is good for anybody- more armour than crusader+fast weapon. Whats not to like? :D :evil:



  • @Sultanofswing:

    Limitations and complicacy is all good stuff, i can’t believe you dont like it. Thats why experienced players play the sergeant class in AoC, because they want to limit themselves in order to increase the challenge, because let’s be honest, when two players of the same skill level meet and one is heavy knight, the other sergeant, the sergeant is going to lose most of the time. What my suggestions would do is make more challenging gameplay casually appliciable.

    Sergeant isn’t for experience players, not anymore at least, it was made one of the easiest classes to play in the game. It was made to zerg your opponent with fast hard hits and with his armor h was able to take just as much if not more. If being able to block while attack was implemented into AoC right now it would make any class with a shield OP, especially knight. Not only would this degrade combat by making it slower and simpler it would slow it down even more with the stamina restrictions. This wouldn’t make any game-play more challenging unless you mean for the archers who are only shooting at shields or other archers.

    @Sultanofswing:

    Blocking and attacking at different times?Try to imagine a fight between two guys blocking and attacking unsimultaneously……would not be fun at all imo.
    Thats my reply to your post.
    On a more serious note, do you think " one guy attacks, then the other guy attacks and some guy occasionally blocks" is more fun over a system where every action is a risk and a tactical decision ( sort of like in real life ) ?

    If you really don’t think that system works then try playing a class without a shield since you either have to run or parry or try to get in a good hit so you can follow it up. Although i will admit some fights do sometimes happen to be bouts of parrying until someone lands a good hit. For the 3 years of playing AoC as HK and sergeant when it was hard i had to rely mostly on parrying to avoid hits, since back in the day when sergeant was hard he wasn’t fast enough to get away and HK doesn’t have the ability to wield a shield.


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