Archers are comically underpowered.



  • I get it, nobody likes archers but they are the only class limited to a certain number per team yet they’re comically low damage and hard to use, the arrows travel as if the air is molasses so you have to lead several feet in front of a player in hopes to land a shot plus it does so little damage that you need to hit 5 times before you get rushed and slaughter by a 1 shot Messer. Please make archer fun to play.



  • What I would like, is that thrown objects, e.g. the spears Archer3 is tossing, would sometimes penetrate shield and get stuck on it, or even do some damage as the tip still hits the shield carrier. Having a pointy object on shield would severely hinder it’s usage and mobility as there’s a pointy stick protruding through it. It would be possible to remove the object but this would take a moment.

    It makes sense that the removing is possible, because the Archer3 throwing spear is not a genuine pilum. Genuine pilums have tempered iron tip, but the iron shaft was untempered, forcing it to bend and become useless after it hit something hard.

    Historically pilum was used like this and it was really effective, forcing opponent to abandon his shield.

    Why not have same effect with crossbow bolts (which were anti-armor anyway) and archer3’s pilum-like spears? It does not have to happen every time of course, but let’s say it hits a flat wooden surface it might just do it quite often.

    Here’s some pilum-related watching if someone likes watching medieval/historical weapon videos, other than Skallagrim’s ones.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu8QGkqLjno



  • I would love to see a damage buff for the third archer class. Javelins can be blocked and consume quite much stamina.



  • I have the feeling that there are a massive problem with the hitboxes too, moving taget are insanely hard to hit, funnie enugh its much easier to hit a team-mate no matter what, then an enemey



  • @Mootley77 You can’t be serious, archers are easily the best class in the game. I’m a level 16 archer, it’s my go to class for easy mode when I am struggling. Even on the rare occasion when enemies get in close, they usually don’t stand a chance. They’re hell bent on killing the archer, leave themselves open for easy counters. Short sword is the best secondary weapon in the game. Arrow velocity isn’t difficult to learn. I regularly finish near the top of the scoreboards while running archer and not playing the objective.

    The developers will have the analytics, they’ll know how good archers are compared to other classes. They need a nerf, if the devs take pride in their work they will balance this class appropriately.



  • @Mangrey
    Yeah I think the hitboxes of team mates are much bigger than the ones from the opponents.



  • @GoldenAxe said in Archers are comically underpowered.:

    @Mootley77 You can’t be serious, archers are easily the best class in the game. I’m a level 16 archer, it’s my go to class for easy mode when I am struggling. Even on the rare occasion when enemies get in close, they usually don’t stand a chance. They’re hell bent on killing the archer, leave themselves open for easy counters. Short sword is the best secondary weapon in the game. Arrow velocity isn’t difficult to learn. I regularly finish near the top of the scoreboards while running archer and not playing the objective.

    The developers will have the analytics, they’ll know how good archers are compared to other classes. They need a nerf, if the devs take pride in their work they will balance this class appropriately.

    How much crack did you smoke before typing this reply. Get out of my thread troll.



  • Anyone who says Archers are underpowered has literally lost all my respect for their game’s knowledge. I can get 40 kills and have like 2-3 deaths using archers. No. You just want the game to cater itself to ranged shooting experience where your crappy aim can be solidified by one shotting knights? YOU ALREADY ALMOST TWO HIT KILL EVERY CLASS except the knight. And the Crossbow two shots knights btw.

    Please, what they actually need is a nerf, I’ve heard people yell to the devs to nerf them since last summer lol



  • @Mootley77 said in Archers are comically underpowered.:

    I get it, nobody likes archers but they are the only class limited to a certain number per team yet they’re comically low damage and hard to use, the arrows travel as if the air is molasses so you have to lead several feet in front of a player in hopes to land a shot plus it does so little damage that you need to hit 5 times before you get rushed and slaughter by a 1 shot Messer. Please make archer fun to play.

    You’re correct, everyone hates archers. They sit in the back taking pot shots at everyone else playing the objective (mostly team hitting their buddies in the back) and then when you rush them, they still have one of the best secondary melee weapons in the game to defend themselves, but mostly they just try run away back to their team spawn.

    Thankfully Torn Banner made the sensible decision to limit archer numbers per team as having a ranged character who’s arrows can only be blocked by shield would be annoying for everyone.

    As a Vanguard main, I get 1 shot by bolts all the time and this guy is asking for buffs. LOL



  • @Mootley77 I played the battle of darkforest yesterday, had a first place winning archer game with a total score of 8,355.
    T
    82
    K
    46
    D
    03

    You need to git gud as an archer, before calling for buffs/nerfs. Any dev reading your thread is going to know you’ve the skill level of a binman!!!



  • @GoldenAxe said in Archers are comically underpowered.:

    ll le

    Absolute nonsense. I had 40 kills before the first time I played archer. I hate playing as archer, I suck at ranged combat too… soooooo you tell me how I kept getting so many kills.



  • Some cute replies in here.

    1.) To the “But but but I can go xxxx kills and x deaths therefore OP/strong/competitive”. For one that argument falls flat simply due to the fact it is fallacious.

    Archers have the highest skill floor in the game. That is a factual statement as they are first and foremost the ONLY class which has to aim their primary weapon to achieve any result. Additionally, they are have the weakest survivability attributes. Ontop of all that, the hit detection (netcode) in Chiv 2 is reminiscent of a 2001 title NOT a 2021 title. That is how bad it is. Poor netcode and hitbox issues will always show greater reward to any attack type which has a large striking area and can be spammed. Archer does not have any weapon type that can meet both of those standards. All of the other classes do. Which is just one more reason why Archers are rarely in the top 5 for either team.

    Lastly, Highest skill floor must be coupled with highest skill ceiling for any sort of balanced gameplay. Any other ratio of ceiling to high floor is game breaking unless ALL archetypes share the same exact ratio. As thus, with the highest skill ceiling, Archers should be able to achieve BETTER scores than the other, lower floor and ceiling classes, when used by a more skilled player.

    2.) Crossbow is the ONLY competitive archer subclass atm, and that is if the hit detection worked properly. Otherwise it isn’t even competitive either… Longbow and Skirm is not competitive at all and are quite UP. Longbow might as well be using year 1,500 BC Stone age bow tech whilst facing 14th centry Plate wearing Knights which is pretty much the perception gained from their current state. I can understand if the game used hitscan hit detection for the ranged weapons and it took a lot of headshots to down a MaA or Knight. Chiv 2 uses collision based (projectile) hit detection, and even if the netcode was fixed, unless Knights (and MaA to a lesser extent) mobility was nerfed so they are not agile like a robe wearing Shaolin Monk, then Longbow might be competitive. If such nerfs do not happen, the Headshot multiplier should be buffed. Skirmisher is the weakest of the 3. The throw animation needs to be a release on press type. Tapping the “G”/throw key should simply place and lock the Skirm in the throw preparation (like a Javelin horizonal over the shoulder) and the LMB should be required to actually release the throw. Additionally, the headshot multiplier should see a large buff AND there should either be a damage bonus for rear strikes like Ambusher OR Javelins should cause a bleed DoT on hits.

    3.) Archers do not get some buffed or better secondary compared to other classes. I see this ignorant complaint a lot. People complain because they lost to a much better player, playing archer, and they were playing a non archer. They simply decided NOT to switch to their own secondary and as is the typically low skill simp expectation, expected to be able to own everything like some god by sticking to spamming their 2h primary which happens to be… you guessed it… slower than both their and the Archer’s secondary options.



  • While I admit the Javelin needs to spool up quicker, as right now the throwing axe is flat out better, OP is severely missusing the Longbow. The Longbow is the machinegun of his game, and fares better rapid firing into groups of enemies at closer ranges. It is only the Brazier that encourages the long range (and wrong) playstyle of the Longbow, and IMO, should be replaced with something else.



  • @MattRat

    1.) Throwing Axe is only better in the very specific situations where you can land throwing hits in the back or side of a Knight or MaA. Otherwise, Javelin throwing per hit damage combined with the stab reach AND sprint attack makes it better in melee encounters.

    2.) A single press and animation phase to throw release is silly. It needs to be a two-phase system. Press(Hold) + Release or Press(toggle) + Release. With Release being the actual throw.

    3.) Skirmisher simply needs much more going for it to be competitive. Even a larger shield should be considered. Similar to what MaA has access to. Additionally, if the very long and forced “stunned” phase between a throw and being able to switch to secondary is going to remain, throws from Skirmisher should have a lot more going for them… This could be down to Javelins pretty much annihilating shields… to Axes causing a bleed… or even increased Headshot multiplier.

    4.) Longbow is ONLY useful when up close. Useful as in compared to playing it at longer ranged, but not competitive in the least. Why? Because at that point you might as well be playing any of the other classes. At range? Crossbow beats longbow by miles. The standard for any sort of PVP with rpg elements (i.e. healing) remains true… burst damage is king. Longbow needs buffs. Even if the netcode is increased and the hit detection is at least functioning properly, with the projectile velocity of the arrows and the shaolin monk mobility of all the classes including plate wearing Knights… if you land 2 headshots at long range on anyone with a Longbow they should go down for balance purposes. No contest. Even 1 headshot and a bodyshot in short work should drop most if not all if the game was balanced. With that said, this is why I will always be a supporter of DoT mechanics. Easier to balance with DoT, especially with the healing/bandaging in the game. If Crossbow is meant to be unique as a anti-tank burst damage ranged weapon, Longbow should probably have its own unique flavor other than an easy to dodge, low damage, low velocity weap with a little more RoF. Maybe a little less on hit damage but a vicious bleed would do the trick.



  • Shadowbane, idk what you want Chivalry 2 to become but we don’t want it to be a Counter Strike game where you can snipe people from ACROSS the map with a longbow and one-shot them. Come on dude, that is not even how Longbows in history were used if you are all gonna be a history buff and bring up stone age bows and 14th century stuff. They actually came up close and shot you in formations, they didn’t do long-range of kilometres and volleyed you. If devs listen to you, you are gonna get this game killed, it has already gotten people to leave just because of how nasty archers are at the moment. Now we are not gonna stand by and just let it happen. A lot of ALPHA players had begged the devs to nerf archers but they didn’t.

    You are so invested in being a huge archer nerd that you want more buffs than they already have! You can two-shot almost all classes if not ALL classes with a crossbow. You can one-shot most enemies because they are often already wounded xD and just claim the kill for yourself. Vanguards, one of the best classes in the game, are dying left and right and your complaints are what exactly? Fix hitboxes? Add more damage to your sniper rifle bows then they already have? The only thing people have going for them are shields and I bet you’d want Shields to be removed so you can be babysit into shooting people in a gorge and owning the entire team with your Legolas shooting skills.

    You bring up history and bla bla, unaware that if this game went fully historically accurate, all arrows, even crossbow bolts would most likely bounce off unless it hit the Plate Armor’s joints, so please don’t bring up realism into this, your argument would fall off even flatter than it already has. You also say how an argument falls flat due to the fact it is fallacious… when so many of your arguments are so fallacious that you are contradicting yourself and only people who want archers to be broken even more would ever agree with you on this.

    The only thing I can accept with you is the hitbox issues, they are janky but they are also janky in melee so its not just an archer thing. If I can dunk people with a crossbow, get 40 kills and not even 3 deaths because of my good position, get good in archery and stop crying like a little boy.

    Everything else you said… is… peanuts



  • @Doomguyy said in Archers are comically underpowered.:

    Shadowbane, idk what you want Chivalry 2 to become but we don’t want it to be a Counter Strike game where you can snipe people from ACROSS the map with a longbow and one-shot them. Come on dude, that is not even how Longbows in history were used if you are all gonna be a history buff and bring up stone age bows and 14th century stuff. They actually came up close and shot you in formations, they didn’t do long-range of kilometres and volleyed you. If devs listen to you, you are gonna get this game killed, it has already gotten people to leave just because of how nasty archers are at the moment. Now we are not gonna stand by and just let it happen. A lot of ALPHA players had begged the devs to nerf archers but they didn’t.

    You are so invested in being a huge archer nerd that you want more buffs than they already have! You can two-shot almost all classes if not ALL classes with a crossbow. You can one-shot most enemies because they are often already wounded xD and just claim the kill for yourself. Vanguards, one of the best classes in the game, are dying left and right and your complaints are what exactly? Fix hitboxes? Add more damage to your sniper rifle bows then they already have? The only thing people have going for them are shields and I bet you’d want Shields to be removed so you can be babysit into shooting people in a gorge and owning the entire team with your Legolas shooting skills.

    You bring up history and bla bla, unaware that if this game went fully historically accurate, all arrows, even crossbow bolts would most likely bounce off unless it hit the Plate Armor’s joints, so please don’t bring up realism into this, your argument would fall off even flatter than it already has. You also say how an argument falls flat due to the fact it is fallacious… when so many of your arguments are so fallacious that you are contradicting yourself and only people who want archers to be broken even more would ever agree with you on this.

    The only thing I can accept with you is the hitbox issues, they are janky but they are also janky in melee so its not just an archer thing. If I can dunk people with a crossbow, get 40 kills and not even 3 deaths because of my good position, get good in archery and stop crying like a little boy.

    Everything else you said… is… peanuts

    1. Never made any claim nor suggestion that would result in that claimed scenario. No need for logical fallacies.

    2.) Looks like you don’t even know your history at all. The bow used in real military combat, like you are describing were used in a way that the bow itself was designed. The Longbow which was actually most promiment 13th - 14th century-ish… was designed for a longer draw capability from the user which allowed longer ranged shots with some precision. Obviously this precision decreased with mobile targets and charging forces, and the use of the Longbow was effective as an ancient form of long-range suppressive fire for an average effective range of 200-400yds. Longbows were also not recurved, and typically used a different arrow weight than other bow types.

    There were bows, typically much shorter than the Longbow with different typical arrow weights and head weight for short distance engagements. These are more of the typical short-bow, mounted design, and/or recurve design. The shorter bow is typically that which would be used by more of weapon to fire off in closer combat, especially at a charge or during a charge if the user was mounted themselves.

    No one claimed any of the bows fired “km” (which doesnt even make sense given the scope of Chiv 2 maps anyway) but they certainy were used in disciplined volleys… when used by disciplined armies (which is where they got most of their use).

    3.) You seem to be very adamant in filling your argument with logical fallacies which makes it nothing more than amusing. It doesn’t matter if players in ALPHA were begging for nerfs or they werent. This has nothing to do with what is actual balance, which is observed through proper performance data analysis in combination with contextual evidence. Not the vocal minority thinking they are mob rule.

    4.) Strawman… oh… Strawman. If you employed reading comprehension you would have read the part where I already covered Crossbow.

    5.) You realize fixing hitboxes fixes it for ALL classes and ALL types of combat right? 0/10

    6.) Never once made a claim I want shields to be removed.

    You clearly do not even know what the term “fallacious” even means.
    All in all you failed to even make a sound argument once. Please try again. Next time with less emotion and more logic.



  • @ShadowbaneR I never said Longbow was a long range weapon. I was merely pointing out that’s how I see it being used, with those same people always standing next to a Brazier. It stands to reason perhaps Brazier is encouraging this wrong playstyle, and if so, it should be removed, and replaced with something else.



  • @MattRat said in Archers are comically underpowered.:

    @ShadowbaneR I never said Longbow was a long range weapon. I was merely pointing out that’s how I see it being used, with those same people always standing next to a Brazier. It stands to reason perhaps Brazier is encouraging this wrong playstyle, and if so, it should be removed, and replaced with something else.

    Longbow in terms of realistic/historical accuracy is a “long range” weapon.

    In terms of balance it definitely needs some buffs or a rework. It is a complete joke at long range, and pretty much only usable in close range. “Usable” here being used loosely as the weapon is not even remotely competitive.

    Brazier is silly a subclass special. It is far weaker than Vanguard fire bomb for sure and the mini spike barricade is also pretty garbage.

    To me this is what I personally would recommend for a Longbow rework:
    1.) Longbow on hit damage range reduced by 25%
    2.) *add bleed DoT effect to successful Longbow hits, 20 damage caused over 5s. Additionally hits refresh duration. Damage is doubled from HS.
    3.) Spike Trap is now replaced with “Caltrops”. Single-use, throwable array of small caltrops covering a small ground radius. Stepping on caltrops causes the victim to be slowed, unable to block, and take a small Bleed DoT. 15 damage over 3s.
    4.) Brazier is replaced with “Heavy Bodkin Arrows”. When “Heavy Bodkin Arrows” subclass special is activated, the next 5 arrows shot by the Longbowman have reduced velocity, are effected by gravity faster, do not cause a bleed, but do +75% damage to Knights and MaA.



  • The longbow and crossbow sub-classes are so weak. I think the main problem is that the arrow hitbox is so insanely small. I regularly observe my arrows fly right past the enemy’s body. I feel as though there isn’t a point of making precise shots in most cases because whether it lands is mostly luck. This is why I don’t really aim for a single person any more. I have found that the best archer strategy is to use the longbow, stand in short range, and just fire rapidly into a group of enemies. The way I see it is that precise aiming isn’t going to improve the odds of hitting someone much, so it is better to just fire as much as possible and eventually you will hit someone. I don’t really waste my time trying to shoot a single person. I always fire into a group of enemies because that drastically increases the odds of hitting someone.

    I don’t think the problem is my aim because when I play javelin archer I literally land 70% of my javelins, but when I play longbow or crossbow, my accuracy drops drastically. Also, due to the tiny hitboxes, archer battles are basically a waste of time. As an archer, I almost completely disregard other archers. I regularly have 4 archers firing upon me but I just strafe left and right and none of them can hit me.



  • I think console aim assist is to strong initially. People just spam shots cause as soon as they aim its right on the mark. Crossbow hits way to hard, most the time one tapping cause your usually not at full health. I wouldnt say they are underpowered by anymeans, if played correctley they are very strong and annoying to play against. I think dmg numbers should be toned down a little bit and they would be in a good spot.


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