Class and game play changes in regard to depth



  • Thank you for taking the time to read my post. Let me begin by saying that the class changes I am recommending are to improve depth and the overall “feel” of the game. They are not intended to improve the power of any one class or weapon. The suggestions will be listed in the syntax as follows:

    Problem:
    “text”

    My solution:
    “text”

    Comments and regards are welcome and I appreciate feedback but please ladies and gentlemen try to keep it to a sensible and intelligent discussion. Lets try to turn this into a discussion on how to make the game feel more in-depth and immersive.

    General change suggestions:

    Problem:

    • I feel that when it comes to two heavy classes such as knight it becomes two much of a back up and swing away festival. It doesn’t really feel like any class can do something to turn the odds in their favor, or that if one class parries the other it will turn the sway of the battle. Should one of these two foes parry the other, they will simply follow it up with an attack that will most likely in-turn also be parried. This results in a parry festival and neither side wins. Furthermore, parrying attacks is far too easy.

    My Solution:

    • I believe that parrying should become a much harder technique to master, reduce the amount of frames for a successful parry and or make the parrying hitbox smaller. However, In return I also suggest that upon a successful parry, the enemy should be left open for a longer period, and possibly take increased damage while left open However I believe the opponent should be instantly awakened from this “shocked” state after the next attack he takes or if he is left alone for a brief period of time. This will allowing for his foe to land a successful attack and actually receive a reward for the risky maneuver of parrying that he performed.

    Problem:
    Shields are much too easy to get around, and are not that much preferable to using parries.

    My Solution:
    With regards to parrying you can see above, however I also believe that shields require a bit of a buff. While it is true that you can hold a shield up much longer if not infinitely longer than a parry, a foe can easily stab your side when clearly you would have hit the shield. I believe that shields should receive a buff in the form of their hitbox being widened on the left and right side.

    Problem:
    Weapon statistics are a bit bland. It is unclear which weapon type is strong against what, and just how much reach is “37%”

    My solution:
    Implement a sort of “meters/centimeters” system ( I use the metric system in respect to the fact that the fictional nation of Agatha would most likely have English roots due to their spoken language of English" ). This system would allow for a more clear estimate on how much better a weapon is than another. I also suggest implementing a system of “Damage vs a lightly armored foe: X” “Damage vs a mildly armored foe: Y” Rather than a percentage system. And a swing speed in terms of milliseconds/seconds.

    Problem:
    Smaller weapons such as the mace and broad dagger have too slow a swing speed in comparison to the larger weapons. This seems unrealistic considering how quickly a dagger can be swung. this would be fine if the speeds did not seem so similar to the larger weapons which would most definitely be ungodly heavy .

    My solution: Increase the wind-up time of larger weapons (not including spears, as they would most likely be pretty light-weight) but lower the larger weapons swing time. Essentially this would mean the same amount of time spent during an attack, but would give the smaller weapon using classes a better chance to jab at their heavy opponent and receive a reward for doing so.

    Man at arms Changes:

    Problem:
    Dodging seems too stiff, it feels like a solid branch jumping left and right.

    Solution:
    I would like to see a rolling or possibly even leaning system implemented. For example, if an opponent thrusts his sword to stab at you, and you somewhat “limbo lean” to the left. I do not want this to replace dodging but be an addition. A more risky technique in the sense that if he instead performs a horizontal swing you can kiss your backside goodbye, but it should have a quicker recovery as well, making for a larger window with which to retaliate.

    Vanguard Changes:

    Problem:
    It feels like the range I get with my weapons doesn’t count for much. Opponents close in too quickly anyway.

    Solution:
    I believe that these polearm type weapons should be more difficult to parry. A stab attack with a spear would be much more difficult to swipe away unless you perform some kind of “chop” motion at the base of the its metal head and step away. I therefore believe that these types of weapons should become more difficult to parry, but easier to block with a shield, considering that you can just stab at an opponents feet anyway, I feel this is a fair change.

    Knight changes:

    (I HAVE NOT PLAYED KNIGHT AND THEREFORE DO NOT FEEL CREDIBLE TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON HIS ABILITIES AND WOULD MOST LIKELY JUST END UP TURNING THIS SECTION INTO A “WAH WAH HE KILLS MY CLASS” SECTION, THANK YOU).

    Archer changes:
    Problem:
    I feel that javelins are not worth using.

    My solution:
    I feel that I cannot come up with a change that would not make them overpowered, feel free to submit your own changes.

    Ability and Function changes:

    Problem: I can parry a massive warhammer with a small dagger, that doesn’'t seem right. I feel like my dagger should be shattered in the process.

    Solution:
    Implement weapon breaking! Why can’t I dodge sideways and kick a vanguards spear to break it at the neck, forcing him to pull out his sidearm! Why cant I throw an axe at an archer and sever his bowstring?! (Although this would require some fiendish accuracy and would be nearly impossible). I feel that this would not only increase the usage of sidearms for classes that dont use theirs that much (IM LOOKING AT YOU MAN AT ARMS) but would also cause players to be a bit reluctant to just spam their super fast tiny axe at you. This would mean that bigger weapons are now better for parrying other bigger weapons (as they probably would be in reality), and smaller weapons are better for parrying smaller weapons.

    Please feel free to submit your own changes. I look forward to reading them.



  • tl/dr :)

    Btw, parrying is not too easy. It entirely depends on the attack and player position.
    I think that parrying and getting around it have not quite evolved because the game is so new.
    Making it more difficult may turn every game into a swing fest.



  • With regards to your first point, feinting is a major part of gameplay and you will often see duels that last over a minute between two lesser skilled players because they will not feint each other out. A good player can ensure a duel never goes over 20, or maybe even 10 seconds against another good player through the use of feints.

    I also disagree immensely with your view on shields. When you realise how useful feints are in higher level play, and then you bring a shield to the fight, you will understand why shields are extremely easy to use in their current state. They render feints pretty much useless. That is a major part of gameplay you no longer have to worry about. A shield essentially brings us to the point you mentioned above, two players decking it out for minutes because it’s trading attacks and blocks. If you then take a shield away from one of the combatants, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that the Shield user can feint his way to his victory while being impervious to feints himself.



  • Agreed with Blaine. Feints are too powerful and it makes shields too powerful by association. There should be a minor delay after feinting where you’re unable to attack, or you should only be able to feint in the first half of your attack windup. Right now it just feels like a guessing game with feint spamming. If you expect them to feint and they don’t you eat an attack, otherwise they just feint until you parry and then hit you during the downtime. Not to mention how ridiculous it looks when two players walk up to eachother spamming feint until one finally just attacks.

    Once feints are dealt with shields can be seriously looked at and a fitting solution to them found as well. Things that stands out to me right away (in addition to the feint immunity) is that dropping your shield and attacking seems to take less time than comboing an attack off of a parry for most weapons, and there seem to be no stamina issues with turtling behind a shield compared to spamming parries. I would suggest going back to the bug-turned-feature in AoC where shields could parry and counterattack quickly if tapped (in Chivalry this would just be the same as comboing off a parry) but took significantly longer to drop if held up. Add a noticeable stamina cost to shield parrying and it would give feints some potential effect against shields.

    Other mechanics I think need looking at are shoving and comboing, which both feel very unrewarding right now for their risk/cost, and could be improved to add any depth back to the game potentially lost by weakening feints.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Agreed with Blaine. Feints are too powerful and it makes shields too powerful by association. There should be a minor delay after feinting where you’re unable to attack, or you should only be able to feint in the first half of your attack windup. Right now it just feels like a guessing game with feint spamming. If you expect them to feint and they don’t you eat an attack, otherwise they just feint until you parry and then hit you during the downtime. Not to mention how ridiculous it looks when two players walk up to eachother spamming feint until one finally just attacks.

    Once feints are dealt with shields can be seriously looked at and a fitting solution to them found as well. Things that stands out to me right away (in addition to the feint immunity) is that dropping your shield and attacking seems to take less time than comboing an attack off of a parry for most weapons, and there seem to be no stamina issues with turtling behind a shield compared to spamming parries. I would suggest going back to the bug-turned-feature in AoC where shields could parry and counterattack quickly if tapped (in Chivalry this would just be the same as comboing off a parry) but took significantly longer to drop if held up. Add a noticeable stamina cost to shield parrying and it would give feints some potential effect against shields.

    Other mechanics I think need looking at are shoving and comboing, which both feel very unrewarding right now for their risk/cost, and could be improved to add any depth back to the game potentially lost by weakening feints.

    Just wanted to address one thing regarding the feint spamming.

    Whenever I encounter someone 1v1 who tends to spam feints, I simply step up my aggression and take the offensive a lot more than I perhaps normally would. I think this is a great counter to that, as if you keep someone on their heels, they won’t really have the opportunity to feint spam all the time. Typically, the person who is the most aggressive sets the tone of a fight… and while this can certainly backfire, it can also negate the advantage of the player who relies too heavily on feinting.





  • for the parryng , IMO they should make so the lower your stamina ,the slower your attacks are ( and less stronger ) so if you play your cards well and doge you opponents attacks,without parry or dodging as i maa but with good old footwork you would get the upperhand …