Ways to balance MAA



  • Ok sorry but i just feel ridiculous…

    i usually play vanguard or knight, and have no problem racking up 10-15 kills per round.

    decided to go for man at arms unlocks the other day and so far most kills i got per round was 5 or so. Most rounds 2-3 some rounds none.

    I dont think im the worst at this game, im defo not the best, but seriously, the difference here is huge.

    I can’t even get CLOSE to someone, with the reach of greatsword or pole-axe, im dead before i even get in range to attack.

    I reckon the dodge helps quite abit, and i’ve been using it, but then, i run out of stamina…

    This is what i really don’t get:

    Why is it that me, as a man at arms, with very little armor, and a tiny weapon, running out of stamina so quick? while knights with 60lb armor, and massive weapons and shields get a + stamina perk?

    If you ask me, Man At Arms should be the only class getting + stamina or maybe even INFINITE stamina. They are seriously SQUISHY, squishy as in, dead before they get in range for a hit, type squishy, they need ALL the stamina they can get. They use dodges which COST STAMINA, but yet the knight whos already damn near unbeatable, gets a stamina perk?

    I say remove the knight stamina perk and give it to the MAA. It is 100% necessary. Knight already have powerful weapons with long reach, they don’t need more stamina ontop of it. MAA however need all the stamina they can get so they can dodge and get within reach of heavy weapons with huge range.



  • @fwbo777:

    Ok sorry but i just feel ridiculous…

    i usually play vanguard or knight, and have no problem racking up 10-15 kills per round.

    decided to go for man at arms unlocks the other day and so far most kills i got per round was 5 or so. Most rounds 2-3 some rounds none.

    I dont think im the worst at this game, im defo not the best, but seriously, the difference here is huge.

    I can’t even get CLOSE to someone, with the reach of greatsword or pole-axe, im dead before i even get in range to attack.

    I reckon the dodge helps quite abit, and i’ve been using it, but then, i run out of stamina…

    This is what i really don’t get:

    Why is it that me, as a man at arms, with very little armor, and a tiny weapon, running out of stamina so quick? while knights with 60lb armor, and massive weapons and shields get a + stamina perk?

    If you ask me, Man At Arms should be the only class getting + stamina or maybe even INFINITE stamina. They are seriously SQUISHY, squishy as in, dead before they get in range for a hit, type squishy, they need ALL the stamina they can get. They use dodges which COST STAMINA, but yet the knight whos already damn near unbeatable, gets a stamina perk?

    I say remove the knight stamina perk and give it to the MAA. It is 100% necessary. Knight already have powerful weapons with long reach, they don’t need more stamina ontop of it. MAA however need all the stamina they can get so they can dodge and get within reach of heavy weapons with huge range.

    Please you just need a strategy. I found out how to kill the guys with staffs using the maul. Not going to tell you how for the strategys stake.



  • You need to use footwork a lot more as MaA and stop relaying on dodge so much. The dodge is not a “win” move. There superior speed and quick weapons easily make up for there lack of armor.

    Try baiting attacks. Move in, when you see them start to wind up a hit, move out and let them swing. Then move in get a couple of quick pokes and move out. Knights and VG’s are slow, you can out maneuver them without dodge.



  • @Po1ymorph:

    You need to use footwork a lot more as MaA and stop relaying on dodge so much. The dodge is not a “win” move. There superior speed and quick weapons easily make up for there lack of armor.

    Try baiting attacks. Move in, when you see them start to wind up a hit, move out and let them swing. Then move in get a couple of quick pokes and move out. Knights and VG’s are slow, you can out maneuver them without dodge.

    They really are not that much faster, especially side to side movement.

    Dodge isn’t a win move because dodge only works when morons charge and forward attack. You will still get hit on backswing if you try to dodge someone with a 2hander when they slash.

    That leaves MAA with slightly better speed and faster weapons, but really, what is the point? If you switch to VG or Knight you’re killing two or three people in a single swing while requiring two keys…W and M1.

    High risk needs to be High reward to be balanced. MAA is high risk, little/no reward



  • @SHOE:

    @Po1ymorph:

    High risk needs to be High reward to be balanced. MAA is high risk, little/no reward

    Yes, this is the important bit. If I try hard I can usually beat people 1 on 1 with the MAA, but they are incredibly shitty when you are dealing with more than one foe. They need either a slightly higher damage, or slightly more health, so they don’t get one-shotted so often.



  • One-shotting will always happen to some degree. The class is designed for quick hits and rapid escapes. I play MAA ~40% of the time and don’t have any trouble racking up kills. The sooner you give up on the notion of standing toe-to-toe with more than one foe at a time, the sooner you’ll start to utilize MAAs to their full extent.

    Run in, overwhelm an opponent with quick hits and parries, then continue on. If you stop to trade blows on equal footing you’ll lose every time.



  • @ChemicalAgent:

    If you stop to trade blows on equal footing you’ll lose every time.

    This.

    After playing VG and Knight exclusively for around 30 hours. I have just started playing MaA. I have no problems getting kills either. If you try to play like you would a VG or Knight you will fail. It all come down to play-style weather you will be successful or not. Which is good. If you could use the same tactics for all class’ it would be boring and pointless. You may as well just have one class with all weapons available to you.



  • I know it takes a different play style to play as MAA but seriously the MAA is definitely unpowered. His only perk is he can dodge but hes dies in 1-2 shots and doesn’t do enough damage. He is high-risk, low reward for sure, and going against multiple opponents is suicide.

    Weither or not anyone has a problem racking up kills with him, i think its almost obvious hes underpowered.

    I mean seriously, dude gets less health, damage, and reach, then VG and Knight, and that is replaced with more speed (barely) 1H weapons the knight already has, and a dodge which costs stamina.

    But the knight gets + Health (more then everyone), hes a tad bit slower (i personally think its almost un-noticable) he gets heavy weapons that can kill multiple people in 1 swipe, 2x bigger shields, all the 1H weapons the MAA uses, and MORE stamina.

    I mean seriously, MAA needs the stamina bonus, thats all im saying.

    Drop the stamina from the knight, give it to the MAA, then atleast the MAA doesnt have to watch his stamina and can afford to use the dodge, against heavier classes with more stamina and armour.

    Just doesnt make sense. Knight gets 60lb armour and heavy weapons and he doesnt tire. MAA is the light fast class and he goes through stamina even faster because of his dodging. Stupid really.



  • fwbo777,

    Getting killed alot a certain class doesn’t necessarily means it’s underpowered. Rather, it might mean that haven’t learned how to use it yet. After investing heavily in MaA, I can reach the top of the scoreboard and even win free-for-all matches. Here are some tips:

    I like to fight close and personal. When engaging in minimum distance, the opponent’s at a disadvantage, because his superior reach is useless and his weapons are slower (fight archers from a distance for those reasons). That’s why I use a shield (easier to block) and the falchion (third-tire sword, high damage/speed, short reach - again, reach is useless in very close quarters).
    That’s how I get close to the enemy:

    Use dash as an offensive maneuver. Ironically, I rarely use dodge to dodge (I prefer blocking). After a missed/blocked swing by the enemy, I dash forward to get in range and hit, preferably overhead. Now, I’m close to the enemy, who’s damaged and flinched, while I’m in the middle of my second attack. Smart opponents will block, but usually you can circle them and keep bashing untill they’re dead. Because your weapons are faster, most of their hits would be stopped during wind-up by your hit.

    Another way to get close: while a big guy’s running towards you, wait untill he gets in range, than dodge forward and strike (again, overhead’s increased damage is preferable). This can be a suprising, unexpected maneuver. It will totally messes up his timing and catch him during his windup, which will cancel his attack. Then you get to the same situation as the previous one, only now the enemy is also suprised, confused and even (sometimes) panicked, which makes killing him easier.

    The MaA doesn’t need a buff. Try learning to work with what you got before complaining that it isn’t enough. Small stamina pool? Don’t dodge so much - Block/parry. Little armor? Don’t get hit.



  • @fwbo777:

    Ok sorry but i just feel ridiculous…

    i usually play vanguard or knight, and have no problem racking up 10-15 kills per round.

    decided to go for man at arms unlocks the other day and so far most kills i got per round was 5 or so. Most rounds 2-3 some rounds none.

    I dont think im the worst at this game, im defo not the best, but seriously, the difference here is huge.

    I can’t even get CLOSE to someone, with the reach of greatsword or pole-axe, im dead before i even get in range to attack.

    I reckon the dodge helps quite abit, and i’ve been using it, but then, i run out of stamina…

    This is what i really don’t get:

    Why is it that me, as a man at arms, with very little armor, and a tiny weapon, running out of stamina so quick? while knights with 60lb armor, and massive weapons and shields get a + stamina perk?

    If you ask me, Man At Arms should be the only class getting + stamina or maybe even INFINITE stamina. They are seriously SQUISHY, squishy as in, dead before they get in range for a hit, type squishy, they need ALL the stamina they can get. They use dodges which COST STAMINA, but yet the knight whos already damn near unbeatable, gets a stamina perk?

    I say remove the knight stamina perk and give it to the MAA. It is 100% necessary. Knight already have powerful weapons with long reach, they don’t need more stamina ontop of it. MAA however need all the stamina they can get so they can dodge and get within reach of heavy weapons with huge range.

    Thank u!
    I feel ur pain because i only play MAA. TBH i think most of these opinions/Quotes/QQs come from people who only/mostly play Knights and Vanguards.

    About time this comes form a MAA standpoint



  • I disagree. I’ve been my teams savior on objective based maps hundreds of times with an MAA. The little buggers are great for rushing past enemies and killing the king (Fire pots AWAY!). I’ve also wiped out half a team before on an completely outnumbered.

    Use a mix of abilities, get in close, aim for the head. I find the axe is best if you are doing this. Only use dodge when you are in a no-win situation or to clear yourself from the squeeze. You can rack up a heck load of kills if you are careful. The MAA is also the savior of teammates who end up getting outnumbered. Run in and plonk one of the buggers on the head with a mace a few times.

    The only fault with the MAA is the dodge key assignments. Double tapping movement keys is a silly control that relies to much on keyboard layout. Some keyboards even have the ability to press keys twice with one stroke. Its not that great for a keyboard. Okay for a game controller, but this is a PC game, so controls should be keyboard first. Space and the directional key would make more sense, or even shift and the directional key.



  • Bumps :?



  • Man at Arms is hard to use due to low armor rating. However, its high speed, good selection of weapons and the dodge move make it the most powerful class in the right hands. I’ve been playing MaA almost exclusively for about a week now, and I can tell you that it is perfectly possible to destroy any opponent with that class. Keep practicing and you will see. The class is certainly NOT in need of any buffs.



  • MaA doesn’t need a buff. Give it some time, he’s much more difficult to play than knights or vanguards. As others have said, don’t play him like a vanguard/knight, as this will fail horribly. You have to be more defensive, because trading blows gets you killed.



  • Exactly. We conclude in this thread:
    1. You cant play an MAA like a knight or vanguard. You have to be more defensive.
    2. The MAA is bad at taking on multiple opponents. You have to be defensive.
    2. Dodge is not a win mechanic, it is at most to be used sparingly for special purposes.
    So, the MAA has movement speed advantage, but it is tiny and doesnt help him to chase things because of the chase mechanic, and not enough to let him run past other classes. Essentially useless.
    So the MAA has weapons with better speed. But other classes get the same weapons the MAA gets as secondaries. They often dont fight with them because their primaries are better. The only real advantage to a quick weapon is canceling the opponents attack. However that happens rarely and mostly by luck, because you have to do it much earlier before your opponent starts his attack. Minor advantage.
    @Sultanofswing:

    1. You cant play an MAA like a knight or vanguard. You have to be more defensive.
    2. The MAA is bad at taking on multiple opponents. You have to be defensive.

    Because you have to get defensive, means you get less score/kills/damage per minute. In every mode except “last man standing” thats exactly what it boils down to in order to win. So the MAA is a class that simply wins less.

    To get back on topic: Ways to balance:
    Increase movement and attack speed. Decrease dodge stamina cost.



  • I pick MaA exclusively when I’m not randoming my class. I disagree that he needs anything but stamina adjustments. Since the penalty for parrying heavy weapons was added I feel forced to use a shield if I ever want to dodge.



  • I also play MaA almost exclusively, and while it does feel unfair from time to time, I have no problem realizing good performance with this class. The only thing I’m concerned with is when I meet a knight with 1h sword/mace AND a tower shield. If I’m not fully focused on my footwork and performing WAY better than he is, victory is pretty much out of reach, as most of the MaA’s tricks rely on the opponent’s slow attack/move speed and opening, both issues being adressed with the speed of 1H weapons and the impenetrable tower shield.
    Then I do feel a bit of unfairness.



  • @Sultanofswing:

    2. Dodge is not a win mechanic, it is at most to be used sparingly for special purposes.

    So, the MAA has movement speed advantage, but it is tiny and doesnt help him to chase things because of the chase mechanic, and not enough to let him run past other classes. Essentially useless.
    So the MAA has weapons with better speed. But other classes get the same weapons the MAA gets as secondaries. They often dont fight with them because their primaries are better. The only real advantage to a quick weapon is canceling the opponents attack. However that happens rarely and mostly by luck, because you have to do it much earlier before your opponent starts his attack. Minor advantage.

    Because you have to get defensive, means you get less score/kills/damage per minute. In every mode except “last man standing” thats exactly what it boils down to in order to win. So the MAA is a class that simply wins less.

    To get back on topic: Ways to balance:
    Increase movement and attack speed. Decrease dodge stamina cost.

    As a person who plays MaA almost exclusively, I strongly disagree.

    Dodge IS a win mechanic. The MaA mostly deals with enemies with much more reach than him. Dodge helps to close the gap and get a hit quickly without taking one yourself.

    The MaA is much faster than any other class and enables to chase all others - knights, vanguards, archers, they’re all significantly slower. This both enables the MaA to run when at a disadvantage (which I do frequently) and prevents the enemy from doing the same. Definetly an advantage.

    Canceling the opponents attack doesnt not happen rarely or by luck. Because the MaA has some very fast weapons, once I get in reach I can strike over and over again and the enemy can’t retaliate because I CANCEL all of his attacks. (Smart opponents block, but most try to swing frantically and fail miserably). I rely on attack-canceling heavliy to not get hit, and it works wondefully. Major advantage.

    The MaA does not win less in the right hands. I am absolutely certain of this because I can win free-for-all matches, which is based solely on points. You just have to learn how to use it.
    Plus, you don’t have to play defensively as a MaA. You can attack the enemy as soon as you block/parry his swing, or he misses, or he’s unaware of your presence. Then, you can swing all you want.

    To get back on topic: MaA has zero balancing issues. It’s fine as it is.



  • @Po1ymorph:

    @ChemicalAgent:

    If you stop to trade blows on equal footing you’ll lose every time.

    This.

    After playing VG and Knight exclusively for around 30 hours. I have just started playing MaA. I have no problems getting kills either. If you try to play like you would a VG or Knight you will fail. It all come down to play-style weather you will be successful or not. Which is good. If you could use the same tactics for all class’ it would be boring and pointless. You may as well just have one class with all weapons available to you.

    It’s also fun to 1vs1 a knight or Vanguard (not using the Bardiche) with fists because you can easily combo-storm them and pull out before they get an attack or even a parry in. I just think the Man-at-Arms should demand more stamina on strafing for a buff at his default-speed (though not a huge marginal difference.)
    The Vanguard feels like he was supposed to be the anti-MaA considering most of their class-specific weapons focuses on keeping at a small distance but it’s somewhat too difficult to punish their attacks compared to a knight (unless you’re just doing a light stab all the time.)



  • I agree with the author. I beat the hell out of even the best MAA’s in most situations because they can’t come near me, and if they do I just switch to 1h and beat the crap out of them with that instead. You cant side-dodge a spear and expect to be able to attack again before the next stab kills you. It’s really hard to close the distance vs a swinging knight and expect to get out of it on top. Even if you hit him, the interrupt isnt 100% so you might just get hit at the same time and die anyways. IMO, he’s the one who should have the javelin, not archers. That would make it less fun to stand in a corner swinging.