What needs to be done (balance and longevity overview)



  • I’ve put about 12 or 13 hours into the game so far, and while that’s not as much as a lot of you, I feel its adequate enough to have a good impression of the game and its core mechanics.

    I really love the game, but for the game to keep prospering, certain things need to be handled:

    -MAA is underpowered relative to the VG and Knight. The problem is that while he is far squisher than those 2 classes, his health regenerates just as slowly. I’m fine with keeping him squishy, but if he takes 1 hit he’s at 1/3 life and effectively has to sit out of the battle for a long time to ensure another hit doesn’t kill him. The knight can sit out for just a little while and still be battle-ready even without full HP. As a MMA your mistakes are punished super hard. The (buggy) dodge mechanic is not enough of a salve to the bad health and slow regen. So my solution: keep HP so that knight and VG still have the blow-for-blow edge in a battle, but make his health regen faster so that making one mistake (and coming out alive) doesn’t cause him to be killed with one hit for like 2 minutes straight.

    • Archery is neither deep nor fun, nor very rewarding score-wise. So you have people playing Archer just because they like archers. But anyone who wants a good k/d will pick another class. The mechanics feel slow and stiff. Why not make archers much more nimble while they are aiming, but nerf body shots a bit for less dmg. Keep headshot damage. Increase their base accuracy a bit. Let them be a nimble annoyance class with lots of assist points and make headshots be easier to grt. The bullet drop is too extreme at range and projectile velocity is too slow. Crossbow reload takes waaay too long. Some game modes don’t have ammo depots. IMO they need to be in every mode.

    -Face-hugging enemies totally disregard shields. There is a rash of players who employ 1 strategy. they pick a weapon (often a mace) and get RIGHT in your face and spam lmb. Despite blocking (either parry or shield), the strikes go right through. Huge bug that kills fun and depth.

    -Some weapons have a fisheye effect when equipped in 1st person. It looks like an exaggerated FOV, but happens in the default FOV… small hands, and small, narrow-looking weapons. The weight of the weapons feels terrific but the first person models don’t look beefy enough.

    -Ballista and catapult are TK machines. Fix them. Make them do 1/3 damage to friendlies or something.

    -Feints doing the same stamina drain as a missed swing feels wrong. Should drain less or none.

    That’s all I got for now. I’ll add more if I think of them.



  • @ZombieRommel:

    -MAA is underpowered relative to the VG and Knight. The problem is that while he is far squisher than those 2 classes, his health regenerates just as slowly. I’m fine with keeping him squishy, but if he takes 1 hit he’s at 1/3 life and effectively has to sit out of the battle for a long time to ensure another hit doesn’t kill him. The knight can sit out for just a little while and still be battle-ready even without full HP. As a MMA your mistakes are punished super hard. The (buggy) dodge mechanic is not enough of a salve to the bad health and slow regen. So my solution: keep HP so that knight and VG still have the blow-for-blow edge in a battle, but make his health regen faster so that making one mistake (and coming out alive) doesn’t cause him to be killed with one hit for like 2 minutes straight.

    I dare you to fight me, ill be MAA you can be anything you want. I will flawless you i’m not even kidding if you accept this challenge give me your steam name so I can add you. MAA relies on knowing how long the reach of all the weapons are so he can get a couple cheap shots in and wither down an opponent, actually not even wither just straight up 2 shot VGs and 3 shot Knights with his maces and axes.

    • Archery is neither deep nor fun, nor very rewarding score-wise. So you have people playing Archer just because they like archers. But anyone who wants a good k/d will pick another class. The mechanics feel slow and stiff. Why not make archers much more nimble while they are aiming, but nerf body shots a bit for less dmg. Keep headshot damage. Increase their base accuracy a bit. Let them be a nimble annoyance class with lots of assist points and make headshots be easier to grt. The bullet drop is too extreme at range and projectile velocity is too slow. Crossbow reload takes waaay too long. Some game modes don’t have ammo depots. IMO they need to be in every mode.

    Being an archer in this game is hard, and I know i’m legitimately missing because I follow the arrow cam. The only valid complaint is how clunky switching from ranged to melee weapons is.

    -Face-hugging enemies totally disregard shields. There is a rash of players who employ 1 strategy. they pick a weapon (often a mace) and get RIGHT in your face and spam lmb. Despite blocking (either parry or shield), the strikes go right through. Huge bug that kills fun and depth.

    Play the tutorial, first thing you learn is to aim blocks at the TIP of weapons, shields are not force fields like in Warband,

    -Some weapons have a fisheye effect when equipped in 1st person. It looks like an exaggerated FOV, but happens in the default FOV… small hands, and small, narrow-looking weapons. The weight of the weapons feels terrific but the first person models don’t look beefy enough.

    No comment.

    -Ballista and catapult are TK machines. Fix them. Make them do 1/3 damage to friendlies or something.

    No comment, this is a non-issue.

    -Feints doing the same stamina drain as a missed swing feels wrong. Should drain less or none.

    Feinting in this game is fatal for the enemy, if someone can spam it then it’d be unreasonable.



  • I’m not saying th MAA is underpowered offensively. Did you even read my post? I said that it takes too long for him to regenerate his meager health. Slow health regen makes sense for knights, since they regen MORE HP.

    I did play the tutorial. I AM aiming the shield correctly. Face-hugging bugs out the shield outbox as if it doesn’t exist. From 1st person view it looks like the enemy is hitting where the shield is, but it goes right through.

    If you don’t think the ballista and catapult tks are an issue, you simply have not played in enough pubs or you are lying to yourself.

    For feints, I’m fine with them taking SOME stamina, but making it take the same as a missed swing (a punishment mechanic) feels wrong.



  • @ZombieRommel:

    I’m not saying th MAA is underpowered offensively. Did you even read my post? I said that it takes too long for him to regenerate his meager health. Slow health regen makes sense for knights, since they regen MORE HP.

    I did play the tutorial. I AM aiming the shield correctly. Face-hugging bugs out the shield outbox as if it doesn’t exist. From 1st person view it looks like the enemy is hitting where the shield is, but it goes right through.

    If you don’t think the ballista and catapult tks are an issue, you simply have not played in enough pubs or you are lying to yourself.

    For feints, I’m fine with them taking SOME stamina, but making it take the same as a missed swing (a punishment mechanic) feels wrong.

    You need more experience.

    BTW every class has 100 hp, but different resistance values.



  • I dare you to fight me, ill be MAA you can be anything you want. I will flawless you i’m not even kidding if you accept this challenge give me your steam name so I can add you. MAA relies on knowing how long the reach of all the weapons are so he can get a couple cheap shots in and wither down an opponent, actually not even wither just straight up 2 shot VGs and 3 shot Knights with his maces and axes.

    2 shot VGs? 3 Shot Knights? You realize those classes can 1 shot you right?

    MAA is hands down harder to play and usually less reward. Yeah that’s great you can do 1v1, but this is a game with lots of people and you’re not going to have fights that consist of only duels.

    VGs and Knights know they can 1 shot you so guess who becomes instant target in a big battle.



  • @SHOE:

    I dare you to fight me, ill be MAA you can be anything you want. I will flawless you i’m not even kidding if you accept this challenge give me your steam name so I can add you. MAA relies on knowing how long the reach of all the weapons are so he can get a couple cheap shots in and wither down an opponent, actually not even wither just straight up 2 shot VGs and 3 shot Knights with his maces and axes.

    2 shot VGs? 3 Shot Knights? You realize those classes can 1 shot you right?

    MAA is hands down harder to play and usually less reward. Yeah that’s great you can do 1v1, but this is a game with lots of people and you’re not going to have fights that consist of only duels.

    VGs and Knights know they can 1 shot you so guess who becomes instant target in a big battle.

    One shot me with what? A clunky ass 2h maul that I can easily dodge away from and bait out so I can combo 2 overheads? No weapon that can effectively zone out an MAA can one shot me.



  • @PornGuy:

    @SHOE:

    I dare you to fight me, ill be MAA you can be anything you want. I will flawless you i’m not even kidding if you accept this challenge give me your steam name so I can add you. MAA relies on knowing how long the reach of all the weapons are so he can get a couple cheap shots in and wither down an opponent, actually not even wither just straight up 2 shot VGs and 3 shot Knights with his maces and axes.

    2 shot VGs? 3 Shot Knights? You realize those classes can 1 shot you right?

    MAA is hands down harder to play and usually less reward. Yeah that’s great you can do 1v1, but this is a game with lots of people and you’re not going to have fights that consist of only duels.

    VGs and Knights know they can 1 shot you so guess who becomes instant target in a big battle.

    One shot me with what? A clunky ass 2h maul that I can easily dodge away from and bait out so I can combo 2 overheads? No weapon that can effectively zone out an MAA can one shot me.

    Yeah we get it, you’re the best MAA in the game and have never been beaten by anyone else.

    The point is that MAA requires a lot of work to be effective while VGs and Knights can M1 to high scores.



  • You guys really need to play more if you do not recognize the power behind the MaA right now. He doesn’t really suffer in teamfights either if you use your mobility to your advantage. While everyone is swinging away you can dance around the outskirts and come in to punish.

    He requires more skill I would say to be effective but once you learn him he is easily as effective if not more effective than everyone else.

    As for other issues archers are fine as is IMO. A good archer or two on a team can apply so much pressure its nearly ridiculous. Feints costing no stam would be rather ridiculous as well.

    It seems a lot of complaints about underpoweredness (lol) really boils down to the skill ceiling for that individual class. A lot of people claim that archers are underpowered, a statement which is not even close to accurate. Yes, certain classes are more difficult to pick up then others but once you learn them you’ll realize just how balanced they truly are.



  • @hammerhands:

    You guys really need to play more if you do not recognize the power behind the MaA right now. He doesn’t really suffer in teamfights either if you use your mobility to your advantage. While everyone is swinging away you can dance around the outskirts and come in to punish.

    He requires more skill I would say to be effective but once you learn him he is easily as effective if not more effective than everyone else.

    And while you are “dancing” around the outskirts kill stealing nearly dead enemies, you could have been a VG or Knight that swings and kills 2 or 3 people at one time.

    I love MAA and I like the concept of a hit and run melee, but lets not fool ourselves into thinking theres a clearly defined role here.

    As for other issues archers are fine as is IMO. A good archer or two on a team can apply so much pressure its nearly ridiculous. Feints costing no stam would be rather ridiculous as well.

    It seems a lot of complaints about underpoweredness (lol) really boils down to the skill ceiling for that individual class. A lot of people claim that archers are underpowered, a statement which is not even close to accurate. Yes, certain classes are more difficult to pick up then others but once you learn them you’ll realize just how balanced they truly are.

    Balance is all about ceteris paribus. You don’t put a 10g weight on one side of the scale and 20g on the other and proclaim “balance” because you push down on the 10g side with your finger.



  • It might just be that I’m an advocate of balancing a game around competitive play rather than pub play. In pubs a good player is going to be effective as any class in the game with pretty much any weapon. In competitive play though I would say MaA does have a role and fulfills it just fine.

    And by competitive play I mean when the game has moved beyond the moshpit m1 spamming that is seen in regular pub games lol.



  • @hammerhands:

    It might just be that I’m an advocate of balancing a game around competitive play rather than pub play. In pubs a good player is going to be effective as any class in the game with pretty much any weapon. In competitive play though I would say MaA does have a role and fulfills it just fine.

    And by competitive play I mean when the game has moved beyond the moshpit m1 spamming that is seen in regular pub games lol.

    MAA as it stands now is completely defined on being able to flank and have the enemy not know where you are.

    In competitive play that’s an even harder role to follow because of voice chat and better teamwork, so I’m not sure how you think it would be better there.



  • I’m terrible with translating my thoughts in a way for people to understand so please forgive me if i’m not coming off clear. My issue with the proposed changes from the OP is simply this. If you take the game as it is now and say buff the archer class, in the long run you are going to have balance problems because as I said they just have a naturally higher skill ceiling then other classes. If you want the game to be balanced around skill / effectiveness ratio than I suppose your argument would make sense.



  • Man at arms is fine. I play that class almost exclusively and i have no problems in huge battles or 1v1s. Yes, it sucks you can get 1 shot by some Knight with a hammer but the trade offs are huge. Being able to dodge allows you to get in or out of range and having fast attack speed lets you punish knights and vanguards hard. I don’t think there is any problem with the man at arms class. 4



  • @hammerhands:

    I’m terrible with translating my thoughts in a way for people to understand so please forgive me if i’m not coming off clear. My issue with the proposed changes from the OP is simply this. If you take the game as it is now and say buff the archer class, in the long run you are going to have balance problems because as I said they just have a naturally higher skill ceiling then other classes. If you want the game to be balanced around skill / effectiveness ratio than I suppose your argument would make sense.

    The issues with the archer have more to do with mechanics than balance.

    It doesn’t really matter if it’s the perfect definition of skill, if it’s unfun to play then it needs to be changed. This is a game after all :).



  • I think you guys aren’t understanding my beef with the MAA.

    Okay so here’s my issue. Say you’re a knight and a MAA hits you twice and then you kill him. So now you’re at half health give or take. Chill out of combat 8-10 secs and now you’re back to 85% and ready to enter combat again. And short of a hammer overhead you can take more than 1 hit and live.

    Say you’re a MAA and a knight hits you once then you kill him. Now you’re at about 20% health. Chill 8-10 secs and you’ll be back to like 45% health and almost anyone can kill you in one hit, meaning you have to tediously sit out of combat a long time after a battle as MAA before you can enter one again and not get 1-shotted.

    MAA’s head to head battle potential vs other classes is debatable but that’s not my issue with him. My issue is that you can’t dispatch a guy and then heal up in a reasonable amount of time as MAA. You’re forced to sit out a long time to regen enough HP to not get 1-shotted. Knight doesn’t have to do that. So it comes down to being forced into downtime to regenerate health as MAA, which is boring and makes him less effective over the course of a match.

    The same problem applies to the archer btw, but it’s mitigated by the fact that he doesn’t have to put himself at risk to do damage.



  • I get what your saying zombie but i feel like the whole point of a KNIGHT is to be able to tank tons of damage. Also, MMA shouldn’t really be getting hit in the first place as they use the dodge mechanic to pretty much well, dodge everything. Also, Making regenerating health faster for man at arms would probably imbalance the class causing them too be too strong.



  • @ZombieRommel:

    you’re at about 20% health. Chill 8-10 secs and you’ll be back to like 45% health and almost anyone can kill you in one hit

    Don’t get hit. :)

    Knights get a damage reduction bonus for the heavy plate armor they wear. If you buff stamina regeneration for other class’ you are negating the Knights role as a tank.



  • @Po1ymorph:

    @ZombieRommel:

    you’re at about 20% health. Chill 8-10 secs and you’ll be back to like 45% health and almost anyone can kill you in one hit

    Don’t get hit. :)

    Knights get a damage reduction bonus for the heavy plate armor they wear. If you buff stamina regeneration for other class’ you are negating the Knights role as a tank.

    Exactly how I feel. Thats the knights gimmick, Tanky, MMA Fast and dodgey, Vanguard A mix of both with long reach.



  • I got 45 kills and 13 deaths in the last Team Objective game (Dark forest)

    I wasn’t really trying that hard either.

    They are squishy but only if you get hit. It’s all about moving properly and anticipating when to attack. I can turn the tide of a team fight by coming from behind and laying waste to damaged players engaged with my teammates… or sneak behind the lines and kill their annoying archers.



  • Hard class really. Shared the OP feelings…somewhat hated MAA at first…I get a better feeling for it just now.
    Unlocked whole Knight and VG…now I am interested in MAA (Rank 15)…
    No idea if I am in some sort of Stockholm syndrome or if the class really is balanced.

    One thing is certain. MAA needs the smartest playstyle.
    MAA has to be played like an opportunistic…cowardly backstabbing bandit.
    Mistakes are totally forbidden…

    One thing that definetly is annoying…headhits dont register as I would wish…other then that Maa seems OK…running speed could get a 5% buff though.