Persistent siege mode



  • Hi Guys,

    I want to formulate my wishes for a future game mode for Chivalry (either in native, or future mods).
    I hope you find the idea as fascinating as I and someone will pick it up.

    The idea came to my mind when reading about a similar concept for a submod of Mount & Blade: Warband’s "Persistent World Mod"

    I don’t recall what it was called back then but since then I used to call it the

    Persistent Siege Mode

    The Concept:

    Basically the server runs one map the whole time (unless the admin wants to change it). There is no timer and no round end.
    The game mode is basically the old UT domination mode or Conquest from the Battlefield series.
    Meaning your team will hold as many flag points of the map as possible in order to gain points (a concept of gaining points may yet have to be developed but for now let’s just say both teams will gather points up until eternity. For a ClanWar you might say that after a certain period of time (half an hour) the team with the most points has won.

    The Flag Points:

    There needs to be a map you can open like in Red Orchestra, Battlefield, Natural Selection and the like. Maybe it only opens when you die so you can choose a spawn point.

    You will take these flags like in Territory Mode in Red Orchestra 2: you need 2 people to begin conquering a flag point. When there are enemies in the area you need at least 2 more people to be there in order to take it. It will be faster the more members of one team are in the area.

    The Map:

    The map features 2 castles at both ends of the map.

    Both castles serve as shelter for their respective teams. The castles will be takeable by the enemy team but there will be a couple of rooms for the defending team to choose from so they won’t get spawn camped so easily.

    On the map there are a couple of flag points your team needs to take in order to proceed. It might be possible for you to take 2 flag points at a time. The other points will be locked for your faction so you cannot just sneak behind enemy lines to take their castle while everybody else is fighting at the front.

    That way you can make sure that everybody will be fighting for the same points at once. That will give you a frontline and a real purpose to fight for –> expand your faction’s influence.

    I imagine there will be either one big flag in every castle, or a couple of them… like one on the battlements, one in the courtyard, another one within the keep.

    When one team will be drawn back behind their own castle walls they will still have a couple of different spawn locations. They now need to organize in order to throw the attackers out of their castle.
    Castle defenders will always be in the advantage because they need less people to take back flags within the castle walls. They also can use counter-siege weapons as ballistae, or pots with burning oil etc.

    The Map Size:

    It may sound like maps have to be uber huge. But that doesn’t have to be the case. A standard Chivalry map size might just fit.
    Take for example HillSide:
    there is so much room from one side (the beach zone where the Agathians start) to the other side (the ballistae on the battlements).
    Imagine a small castle in around the beach area, a few flag points on the way and a fortified stronghold around the area where the ballistae now are.
    You would have to run for some minutes to get there.

    There will be possibilities to spawn from flag points your faction has taken or at least further to the front, so you’re not forced to run all the way from your castle to the front everytime you die. This is comparable to Red Orchestra.

    The Player Count:

    While a persistent siege mode might sound as there need to be many players in order to work it doesn’t actually have to. The mode can very well work with 32 players. Actually I imagine you wouldn’t need more than 10 players at a whole for everyone to have fun.

    That’s because the fights are not scattered across the map. Comparable to Team Objective there is one or two objectives to be taken care of at the same time.

    So all the players of the map will always be fighting each other for the exact same points.

    I think many people will welcome a game mode like this as it gives you the feeling of an ongoing war you’re involved in. You have a purpose to fight for small flag points. You want to take and defend them so you can approach further towards the enemy castle.
    This is more immersive than standard Team Objective where you don’t really want to take all objectives since it meant the end of a match you were having fun with.

    I know a comparable game mode only from MMO games as PlanetSide. Chivalry could be the first Non-MMO game to feature a fun and exciting persistent game mode.

    What do you think of this idea?

    Should the developers consider to implement it?



  • Can the servers handle it? In m&b the graphics werent so demanding and large maps were possible, there was still lag but it was playable. I have been on a 64 man server here and had lag spikes at random intervals which basicaly caused death when in battle. Could a server/computers handle such a large map and population? I think the lag (and fps lag) would make it unplayable



  • @Umbra:

    Can the servers handle it? In m&b the graphics werent so demanding and large maps were possible, there was still lag but it was playable. I have been on a 64 man server here and had lag spikes at random intervals which basicaly caused death when in battle. Could a server/computers handle such a large map and population? I think the lag (and fps lag) would make it unplayable

    It wouldn’t necessarily be a large map with many players. It could be done with 32 players on a medium size map. This night map with the trebuchets seems to be quite big. The might be enough.



  • @Umbra:

    Can the servers handle it? In m&b the graphics werent so demanding and large maps were possible, there was still lag but it was playable. I have been on a 64 man server here and had lag spikes at random intervals which basicaly caused death when in battle. Could a server/computers handle such a large map and population? I think the lag (and fps lag) would make it unplayable

    It’s not as simple as that. Mount and Blade was very badly optimised. The Big maps lagged because the engine couldn’t handle huge calculations, and therefore lagged. Even a NASA computer would have lags, because the problem is the engine itself, not the computing power.

    CHivalry is running on the Unreal Engine 3 : one of the most technology advanced engine on the market. Ureal Engine allows for far more optimisation and flexibility.
    Especially when the SDK will be released, modders will have a lot more options than on M&B. So they will be able to optimise the whole map istelf, and use techniques used in other Unreeal Engine Games.



  • I would absolutely love me some persistent game modes and this sounds fantastic.



  • how about instead of just a persistent siege mode some one mods a persistent sandbox with seiging ,crafting, territory control, no classes, basically a kinda mmo sandbox mod minus all the gay stuff from mmos like stats and lvls.



  • @cleadus:

    how about instead of just a persistent siege mode some one mods a persistent sandbox with seiging ,crafting, territory control, no classes, basically a kinda mmo sandbox mod minus all the gay stuff from mmos like stats and lvls.

    That is what the persistent world mod in M&B was like. But actually all I wanna do is fight… however I want to have the feeling of fighting for a greater purpose and a persistent siege mod gives me the feeling of waging a real/virtual war.



  • I hear you brother ! I had kind of the same idea, just like yours.

    A big persistant map (if possible) with 2 castles and randomly all over the map respawn flags, every team has to collect the flags in their castle and protect them, the other team can also steal your flags. Flags fade after a certain amount of time so no flag monopoly, you have to keep them coming. The more flags the more power, power like the use of balista, siege tower, ladder etc etc…

    I was planning to make this MOD as soon as the mod tools are coming. :D



  • Sounds good as well. The only thing that I find doesn’t fit so well in a medieval war setting is that stealing random flags from anywhere on the map has more in common with paintball or the like.

    If you could fight for territories (as I suggested) between both castles it felt more realistic.



  • that might work, really!

    but that is only going to happen by modding if you ask me



  • Hmmm paintball…. you got a point … i think…

    Your idea could be fun as well, when both teams have their home castle to protect (with a conquest flag in it, if not persistent). And the map divided in territories that have each a specific military advantage. If a team has control of a territory that team can use the specific object in that area like Ballista, high archer spot, a door that can be closed/opened, burning tree trunks, etc etc.

    Yes can be lot’s of fun !! Now just wait for the mod tools !!



  • Aaaah Siege Mode :D :D :D :D
    With real castle-to-castle combat
    been suggested a lot of times already and I still love it :D

    It is awesome and would make for the ultimate medieval experience



  • I’ve been waiting for this concept in EVERY game out there, COD, Battlefield, War for Cybertron, etc…This would make games have more purpose.



  • In the first Q&A video the devs did say they would be working on a large siege modes/maps eventually.



  • To me this sounds like the team objective games we already have? Maybe just bigger maps and more objectives at the same time? If thats the case then it does need alot more players in my opinion…



  • @Onetastic:

    To me this sounds like the team objective games we already have? Maybe just bigger maps and more objectives at the same time? If thats the case then it does need alot more players in my opinion…

    I’d suggest re-reading my original post.

    TO is linear and not persistent. You take an objective, then the game tells you which objective is next. When you complete each objective the round is over.

    In persistent siege the round doesn’t end. One map would run for eternity. So it’s likely that there will be different servers for different maps.

    There are no objectives as in TO but points on the map you can take which can be re-taken. These could be represented by flags… it could also be something like burn a village which would be repaired after a while.

    The persistent siege mode has nothing to do with map sizes or player counts…
    It could very well be in the size of HillSide and it wouldn’t necessarily need more than 20-30 players on the whole.
    Imagine that you need to take points in a certain order.
    From your perspective there are points A, B, C, D, E, F, G. A representing your castle, and G the enemy’s.
    B, and C can be taken simultaneously, but you cannot approach any further until these points are secure. So you will always have a frontline on the map where both forces collide. Why would you need more players than in normal TO?



  • Oh im sorry…

    So this would be like in Guild wars 2 the world vs world mode?.. if anyone has played it :P
    But anyway sounds like it would need alot more room for players and if servers would support it i would agree that it would be really cool. :cheers:



  • @Onetastic:

    Oh im sorry…

    So this would be like in Guild wars 2 the world vs world mode?.. if anyone has played it :P
    But anyway sounds like it would need alot more room for players and if servers would support it i would agree that it would be really cool. :cheers:

    Didn’t play Guild Wars 2, but I suppose some MMOs have a comparable system. I know that PlanetSide1&2 work like this, and supossedly Elder Scrolls Online will, too.

    I don’t think it will need more players at all.
    Maybe I should update the OP with some graphics so everybody can see what I was talking of more visually.



  • I updated the original post with a clearer description. Have a look!



  • Sounds awesome, good work! Would love to see this in the game, I only really like the TO mode and that gets stale after a while.


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