Community Question - Experience/Unlocks


  • Developer

    Community Question!

    How should players progress towards unlockables? What system would you like to see inplace for unlocking new visual or audio options in the game? Should players have ranks?

    Note: Unlocks will not effect gameplay, this is not the thread to discuss that, please stay on topic.



  • viewtopic.php?f=8&t=771

    http://www.chivalrythegame.com/blog/?p=7
    that character developement picture sums up most of my ideas

    EDIT: sorry I didn’t see that bit about traits and medals, but they basically achieve what i was hoping for in titles :D



  • I’d say half the unlockables are playtime-related. 9001 kills gets you a bloody sword skin, 20 objective captures gets you a helmet with a miniflag on it, 100 games won gets you a pretty armor decal, etc.

    The other half for doing unique things: (‘achievements’)
    For example, you get a bloody knife as a reward for backstabbing an enemy who was fighting your teammate, a battered/bruised/damaged shield as a reward for blocking 500 damage in one life with your shield, etc.

    Also the memorables/medals/traits look good. Especially the trait. Be sure to include the “furious/zealous” trait: High objective score per minute, high kills per minute and high deaths per minute.

    :D



  • What Dragonfury said.



  • I think unlockables should tie in to specific actions. For example, a considerable amount of headshots to unlock a new headshot death animation when you kill an enemy; a considerable amount of victories for a particular team (agatha/mason) to unlock new armor for that team; a considerable amount of kills with a class to unlock a new weapon for that class; a considerable amount of objectives completed with a class to unlock a new helmet for that class.

    Personally I also think it’d be nice to see something similar to “Medals/Traits” for unlockables; once you achieve the highest possible cosmetic quality unlock, it begins to rank up by title which will be seen when you kill someone/someone spectates you (TF2 does this to a degree with all equipment, and has a very similar system for “level up” weapons); for example “Crusader’s Cuirass; Veteran Crusader’s Cuirass; Noble’s Crusader’s Cuirass”.

    One more way to unlock things that would be interesting would be to have epic-level cosmetics based on consistent feats of individual ability; for example, Kill 20 enemies in a single life X number of times, complete every objective on the map yourself X number of times, Headshot 10 enemies in a row without missing X number of times, etc. The problem with those are people would inevitably find a way to “farm” them, greatly decreasing their epic value, while if they were just the highest level of cosmetic unlockables through normal means, I.E. 1,000,000 lifetime kills or something, it’d just feel like they were a time sink rather than actual indicators of a very skilled player.

    Oh, and a last comment, regarding the traits thing - I don’t think there should be any negative sounding traits, like “Fears Archers” or “Timid”, simply because nobody is going to feel good about having the words “Fears Archers” hovering over their head or on the scoreboard or whatever just because they happen to die to archers more than melee classes.



  • Oh, and a last comment, regarding the traits thing - I don’t think there should be any negative sounding traits, like “Fears Archers” or “Timid”, simply because nobody is going to feel good about having the words “Fears Archers” hovering over their head or on the scoreboard or whatever just because they happen to die to archers more than melee classes.

    Actually, “Fears Archers” is a very positive trait, since it’s not “Died X times to archers” but “Died at least X times to archers out of Y total deaths”, which would mean that you are difficult to beat in melee combat. But I agree, it could be given a more positive tone (perhaps “Prime Target”?).



  • @TheNarrator:

    Oh, and a last comment, regarding the traits thing - I don’t think there should be any negative sounding traits, like “Fears Archers” or “Timid”, simply because nobody is going to feel good about having the words “Fears Archers” hovering over their head or on the scoreboard or whatever just because they happen to die to archers more than melee classes.

    Actually, “Fears Archers” is a very positive trait, since it’s not “Died X times to archers” but “Died at least X times to archers out of Y total deaths”, which would mean that you are difficult to beat in melee combat. But I agree, it could be given a more positive tone (perhaps “Prime Target”?).

    I didn’t mean the conditions of the trait, just the name.


  • Developer

    So we want some rewards for playing the game for a long time that you can progress towards faster if your better and also some rewards that are given just to signify that you’ve achieved something in particular?

    I wonder about the trait’s possibly being negative. The idea is to help the player understand his playstyle and his success relevant to that playstyle. If the player can look and see, wow I die to archers a lot as this class, maybe I should use a shield more or take a less open route and I wouldn’t die to them so much. So I don’t know that it would be a bad thing to bring that to light to the player and say hey, your generally dying due to this, and let the player try to figure out what he can do about that, but at least give him the hint to get started. The suggested new name “Prime Target” both makes more sense and feels better, but its the ability for a trait to be negative that I want to discuss. For instance, if a player plays without parrying hardly at all, should the game not be able to give him the trait “Wreckless”? If hes having success with his style, more power to him, but it helps him and other players understand how he plays.



  • “Wreckless” isn’t so bad, but I can’t help but feel traits named things like “Timid” would have a majorly negative impact.



  • And for slashers “One mouse button to rule them all” :P



  • @Tibberius:

    So we want some rewards for playing the game for a long time that you can progress towards faster if your better and also some rewards that are given just to signify that you’ve achieved something in particular?

    Sounds good.

    I wonder about the trait’s possibly being negative. The idea is to help the player understand his playstyle and his success relevant to that playstyle. If the player can look and see, wow I die to archers a lot as this class, maybe I should use a shield more or take a less open route and I wouldn’t die to them so much. So I don’t know that it would be a bad thing to bring that to light to the player and say hey, your generally dying due to this, and let the player try to figure out what he can do about that, but at least give him the hint to get started. The suggested new name “Prime Target” both makes more sense and feels better, but its the ability for a trait to be negative that I want to discuss. For instance, if a player plays without parrying hardly at all, should the game not be able to give him the trait “Wreckless”? If hes having success with his style, more power to him, but it helps him and other players understand how he plays.

    I know I wouldn’t particularly mind the game telling me my weaknesses or giving me negative traits, but I’m pretty sure I’m not talking for everyone here, I expect most people who don’t play competitively actually don’t want to be confronted with what they are bad at.

    I think negative traits could work, if there are a couple of mechanics that hide them from new players. When I’m new to the game, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t appreciate having my account read “Narrator the Cowardly, Wreckless, Air-Hitting Poor Sod”, because that is discouraging and also not very helpful when I didn’t get the time to develop a personal style yet. So what I’d suggest is to tie the number of negative traits displayed to the number of positive traits earned so that you never see more weak points than strong points (the most significant get displayed first). So I only get to see that my sword slices air more often than flesh when the game also congratulates me with my improvement in parrying, for example. It’s silly, I know, but negative traits could be very intimidating to novice players. They can’t work on all their shortcomings at once anyway.

    Alternatively, only start tracking stats for traits when players hit a certain time played/rank/whatever, so their performance as a new player doesn’t count. That would feel less like lying and it’s probably a lot simpler too :P.



  • @dragonfury:

    I’d say half the unlockables are playtime-related. 9001 kills gets you a bloody sword skin, 20 objective captures gets you a helmet with a miniflag on it, 100 games won gets you a pretty armor decal, etc.

    The other half for doing unique things: (‘achievements’)
    For example, you get a bloody knife as a reward for backstabbing an enemy who was fighting your teammate, a battered/bruised/damaged shield as a reward for blocking 500 damage in one life with your shield, etc.

    Also the memorables/medals/traits look good. Especially the trait. Be sure to include the “furious/zealous” trait: High objective score per minute, high kills per minute and high deaths per minute.

    :D

    This.

    Also, I dont see negative traits in the game, or at least, traits expressed in a negative way, as discussed before. To go on with the fears archers/prime target example, the trait must be expressed in a way some even might want to achieve, in this case, a player so skillful in melee the usual way to take him down is with a bow. In the wreckless case, a guy with a giant axe might want to achieve it by playing berzerk, just for the fun of it. And as traits are changing, a short time after he got bored and wanted to change playstyles the supposedly negative trait would go away.

    So, stuff like “coward”, “rusher”, “asshat”, shouldnt be in the game. “Lone wolf” for players who often fight, kill or die away from team mates sounds better than “selfish fragger that is a burden to the team”, and, as said before, some players might even want to get the trait.



  • I like the idea of traits not appearing on your profile until you hit a specific rank. Maybe you can track them behind the scenes a bit, which makes sense because you probably need a larger sample set of data before you can accurately label things.

    Make 100% sure that the tiles are neutral or positive. The problem with them also might just reflect when and whom you are playing. If I end up in a game with tons of good players I might just have a horrible streak. Also, some nights there might be more archers online than melee, consequently causing you to always die frequently to archery.

    Either way traits are a fun and interesting idea. If they are something that appears after a set time, it makes them a little bit more special too. What you could also do is tie specific cosmetic unlocks to specific traits. For example with the arrow one you might be able to pick a shield red/white circular target on it or something.

    Maybe another interpretation of traits could be a ‘master at arms’ section in which he will break down the statistics for you to give you feedback. In that context you wouldn’t necessarily get labeled as something but would still get the feedback you want traits to have.

    “You are fantastic at capturing objectives and winning games, but you are an arrow magnet, you hardly parry any attacks, and die all the time”

    That might be more work than its worth though, probably easier to come up with interesting traits and metrics for them and leave it at that :)



  • maybe if people are concerned over certain unlockable weapons being definitively better in combat than some of the other basic weapons, then a simple solution may be to keep the variety of weapon looks and skins but instead of a sword called, I dunno “bastard sword” being the basic knight weapon that is unlokced before the “head-taker” which does more damage, or “life-taker” having an increased swing speed etc. The look of the sword may change so that it looks like it would achieve these aims (i.e. head-taker may be slightly thicker and looks more evil, whilst life-taker may appear to be thinner and more rapier-like and so on), but it does not actually change the attributes of it so all weapons would be equally balanced in terms of stats. This would also keep with players personall style of play as people more inclined to smashing enemies asunder would be prefering to achieve this with a suitably violent looking blade rather than some chivalrous-ornately crafted sword.



  • Since objectives always was a problem for newer players in AoC id suggest that some unlocks included completing all objects on certain maps (or all maps). Seems to me like a good way to get everyone introduced to every map.


  • Developer

    That’s a good idea nedsat and something we plan on promoting with achievements and ingame score.



  • I personally dislike the concept of unlockable gear. Perhaps I should use the word dispise.

    I do however like the idea of a market of gear. With reqs like str and skill.

    A class system can almost organically come from players being able to allocate skill and equipment. If it was done in a controlled fashion it could still be player friendly/noob friendly.

    So I select Archer, but now I get to select what type of archer by allocating skills (redistributable at my discretion) and by purchasing gear.

    So I want to make a power archer (Long Bowmen);

    I put a lot of points into Power Strength, as in slow strength the kind of power you need for lifting and holding heavy weights. And all my associated weapon skill I put into archery and not into other types of weapons skill, like small arms or pole-arms.

    Now I have kitted out my archer with skill and str, he can handle all that extra draw power and can hold shots for longer with better control. So I top it off by buying a long bow or heavy war bow and a set of bodkin arrows.

    The idea here is basically a system of skill. Not a big horrible hard to comprehend tree but something pretty simple and obvious that relates directly to the weapons you can use and the things you can do with them.

    Power Strength: Throwing huge weapons around, holding your arrows firm while you take aim.
    Speed Strength: Hitting with speed and accuracy, parrying and dodging. Perhaps it could give you more weapons skill points, maybe 1 for 1?

    Weapon skill
    Small Arms: 1h weapons and short 2h weapons like Bastard Swords and Long Swords, Spears
    Large Arms: Great Swords, Heavy Axes, Pikes
    Pole-Arms: Well, pole arms. (This perhaps should just be a part of Large Arms.)

    So then all your armour and weapons have associated reqs.
    PSTR for Armour and weapons + Weapons skill.

    What I like about this type of system is it give you the freedom to mix and match to roleplay more what type of bad ass you want to play.

    You might want to buster out the awesome looking light leathers (I’m picturing Edard Starks leathers) with a massive 2h or English Bill (why I have no idea).

    What do you guys think? Did i explain myself well enough?

    Cheers

    EDIT

    Totally forgot, the key word for me is PERSITENCE. Being able to come back and walk in to the server dressed to the nines and go about my merry buisness. I think its important to make sure that anyone coming into the game fresh as the same opertunity to kit out at the start with out feeling disadvantaged. I think this type of system avoids that. They walk in, and can get what they want and learn to play with it, or trade it for something different or earn money and buy more gear to play with.



  • I’m completely against any unlocks that effect gameplay (ie. +1 Shortsword). Carl’s post pretty much summed up my feelings on unlockable weapons.
    Unlocks based on persistent styles of play sound cool to me because it kind of sets everyone apart a little bit based on their own personal style.
    Traits being used to inform the player of various aspects of their playstyle is wonderful sounding.



  • I’m sorry, so what stops people from just farming up the titles/unlocks they want on an unpopulated server? If anything this should just be a special server setting unlocked by devs for competitions and leagues. Or otherwise just let it be completely determined by hours played and let players unlock whatever cool stuff they want (ie. you get X silver per 30 minute round, buy cosmetic unlocks with silver).

    And then ofc you’ve also left the door open for an additional revenue stream if the devs need it by selling gold to players to purchase fancy pixels (that might otherwise take months to procure).



  • I think the word “unlockables” is just a big red flag for me. COD, the BF series. The unlocks were more than cosmetic and players that grinded the most got them fastest and got to beat all hell out of everyone else.

    I like the idea that all the items and armour are to a certain degree is balanced. Everything has pros and cons, a big sword is great for hitting horses and breaking pikes but it isn’t so good in a corridor or against a shield wall. Your plate armour was awesome when you were fighting that lone Knight but now 2 guys are smacking you around you can’t move or recover fast enough to deal with it.
    If you balance out the items with simple and often realistic pros and cons the game shouldn’t become completely unbalanced or over whelmed by hords of guys in plate armour.

    I know the system where you unlock items by gaining arbitrary money units vs doing task x seems on the surface to be surface to be practically identical but they aren’t.

    Do task x type unlocking systems nearly always have a chain of stuff to unlock. If they don’t then you tend to gain arbitrary “spending” units to distribute to unlock/buy the gear…

    The system where you gain arbitrary money units and then spend them on what ever you want lets you ignore items and get the ones you want.

    If you gain arbitrary money units through simply playing the game you don’t have to worry about effort being wasted unlocking random things you don’t care about. All your effort is focused onto getting the set of gear you want.

    Its not a perfect system, but its the free market damn it! :D


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