Some Combat, Teamwork and Tactics suggestions



  • Sorry for the big wall of text but please take the time to read my suggestions, see the vids (Links at the end of the post) and express your opinion about them.

    Hi

    Until now i was silently following the game by checking the forums from times to times eagerly awaiting for more info and videos of this awesome (as far as i can tell) game. I must admit it looks quite impressive!

    Background
    Long story short I come from a game called Mortal Online which is a sandbox MMO with a strong focus on PVP (don’t wanna sound like i’m advertising it) even though i was satisfied with the game and the pvp which i think is the best i’ve seen in an MMO (and online in general) i am also very (VERY!) dissatisfied about the huge number of gamebreaking bugs, the griefing friendly systems/features and the grind which seems to get bigger and bigger with each feature introduced forcing casual players (who actually have a life) out of the game.

    So i turned into a search for alternatives and decided to buy Half Life 2 and download AOC from steam to get an idea of how the game and the combat might in general terms feel like in CMW, so i wanted to post my general impressions and suggestions in comparison also with my MO experience.

    Impressions – Suggestions
    I know that some hours of playtime in AOC are not enough to discover most of the strategies and aspects used in combat but i think i got a fair idea of it and thus i wanna express my thoughts and even worries or fears about CMW development.

    Taking into account the engine, the year it was made and the fact that it was actually a mod, i was satisfied from the amount of polish ingame and the attention to detail.
    From what i can tell this wont be an issue for Chivalry Medieval Warfare also. On the contrary I think this will be one of the games strong selling points.

    But while playing AOC there were some thoughts and concerns that crossed my mind about some possible features and mechanics of AOC that might follow CMW which are :

    - The lack of consequences and the absence of fear for death and thrill in the game (in comparison with MO also).
    This leads to a very straight forward gameplay of [Spawn] -> [Deliver as much damage as you can before dieing] -> [Die] -> [Ressurect/Spawn] -> [repeat the same steps…]

    - This also leads in a general lack of need for teamwork and tactical variation except to flank the enemy or overwhelm him with multiple attacks.

    - The fact that if your character receives a couple of hits and drops his HP to lower levels he seems useless and then it’s better if he charge into battle to cause the last amount of DMG, die and then resurrect with full HP to be helpful again.

    What are the reasons someone must tactically retreat if he has low health?
    Stay away from the game till his HP goes back up?
    It doesn’t sound fun. Dieing and rushing again into battle sounds better but it makes the gameplay feel more shallow and really takes away a lot from teamwork and thrill.

    - The streamlined pre-scripted events and goals.

    **
    I believe an overhaul is needed for CMW both in graphics but especially gameplay-wise.**

    Now for what i propose as a possible solution

    1) Firstly and most importantly is healing! Healing will make you wanna scream for backup in the voip and your friends rushing in to remove the focus from you, letting you escape temporarily to treat your wounds.

    This can be achieved in many ways.

    - Magic (don’t know if it suites the Dev plans, the resources to implement and the games theme so i can scrap the idea about Magic easily).

    - Potions and/or Bandages so that the potions can heal while drinking them with the right drinking animation that will last lets say 5 seconds (cooldown timer also needed), and the bandages can raise your passive regen rate for some time when used after receiving damage.
    The potion and/or bandage idea will be the best to implement imo.
    - Semi-support classes or (kit maybe) such as the archer/healer, crossbowman/healer etc. This can be implemented in addition to the “potions and/or bandages” idea.

    So… imagine 3-4 fighters not charging in the fight mindlessly but standing in a line or small arc raising their shields and blocks in front of the healer that is attending the wounds of 2 wounded comrades.
    Wouldn’t that be an awesome tactical/gameplay change to see?

    2) A big “NO” to 1-2 hit deaths. This promotes the [rush to battle] –> [die] -> [repeat] loops, it makes the game repetitive, it doesn’t give you the chance to correct something wrong you have done or even a hit you received because of lag and most importantly it reduces the amount of help you can receive from your comrades and thus greatly diminishes the teamwork and tactics ingame.
    Imo in general temrs it should be 2 hits for the greatest DMG against the weakest armor and 4-7 hits depending on high/mid dmg weapons against low/high armor protection.
    But i can’t see it working for less than 4 hits amongst melees.

    3) Even though I really like the reduced walking speed i see in the 2 CMW videos which i believe improves the chances for teamwork and tactics and the lag effects, i think also that the running speed should have a bigger difference from the walking speed in comparison to the difference in AOC so we can have good chases but also some good chances to escape temporarily.

    4) I would also like to see the fire causing lower dmg/sec on the burning player but lasting for longer so a teammate can extinguish it by throwing some water on you.
    (As i said, different ways of ingame interaction is a good thing)

    5) If we are going to have a game that offers or even favors teamwork and tactics we are going to need tabards and banners also.
    **
    6)** Finally some other things I would like to see is potion belts holding for example 3 potions or 2 potions and 1 bottle of water or some kits etc. Those potions/kits/bandages can be droppable and lootable from the enemy or even trade-able amongst players.
    There can be movable and destroyable crates and carts to re-supply also.

    Well sorry if some of these ideas are already discussed and i missed them but i would really want to read a Dev opinion about the matter, if some ideas are considered, can make it in game or not etc.
    Plz at least tell me you are considering a form of healing! :)
    **
    VIDEO LINKS**

    Because imo borrowing some successful features from other games is not a bad idea, try to see beyond the possible bugs or lag in the MO vids so that the conversation can focus on how some major gameplay overhauls can be implemented in CMW to really improve the general feel of the game adding a lot of tactical and teanwork variation and thus updating the whole experience.

    Link for General Combat Feel. (a feeling that really lacks from AOC imo)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR1C2f8EN8M

    Link of a buggy fight but with many Combat commands like “Bring down the flag. Bring down the leader.”, “Pull back and group at the flag” etc. (Move to 7:30)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipg814kCAhU&feature=player_detailpage#t=449s

    Even though the use of healing can be considered excessive here is another nice combat vid.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWSL-dzP0TM


  • Developer

    I’m not sure I completely understood you, so feel free to clarify if you feel that I missed your points.

    Combat Pace

    The first thing I noticed while watching the videos and also how aoc contrasts to Chiv in its current, alpha state was the pace of combat exchanges. In both aoc and it appears MO, the vast majority of exchanges seem to involve the process of running in swinging once and then pulling out only to come back in for another run-by shot. In Chiv we have really made an effort to encourage players to engage in exchanges, trying to land and parry multiple strikes in each exchange. We have felt that this really adds to the intensity and excitement of the game.

    One of your main concerns seems to revolve around the length a fight lasts (how many times you can be hit etc.). The reason why we have chosen to pursue a low fight duration system is because it puts the player in the situation where he is always vulnerable- but he is also always powerful. This varies across the classes and weapon choices but at the core, all players can die quickly, you are always on the brink of death with a few choice mistakes and its a very unique element that I feel adds to the games replay-ability and excitement. I have to be wary of my opponent and respect him or it will be a quick death for me.

    I think its also important to realize that you are not at all useless at low health, in fact, you are just as useful as you are at full health, assuming you don’t make any mistakes. Chiv and even aoc to a lesser extent, have a focus that you only receive damage when you make an error, or are outplayed by your enemy. This means that if you are good enough, at low health you can continue to dispatch your enemies with ease.

    Teamwork/Tactics

    I’m not sure how you feel that longer fights would add to the teamwork and tactics, maybe thats something you could explain further. I will freely admit that aoc lacked much teamwork in combat itself. I can also tell you that Chiv changes this, while an individual is still powerful on his own, an organized team will almost always dispatch a group of individuals even if they are less skilled. There is a greater sense of teamwork in Chiv even in alpha than there ever was in aoc. As an example in a playtest 2 weeks ago there was actually a full rout of the attackers by the defenders. Two attackers were pushing the bombcart when 4 defenders rushed down the hill, the attackers fled terrified back from the bombcart to the bridge so they could regroup with their allies and try to assault it again. This sort of thing never happened in aoc but there is a much greater sense of teamwork and tactics in Chiv that hasn’t been shown in the current media so far (as it’s been mostly focused on 1 v 1).

    Healing

    First off, just to avoid potential trolling of the thread I must tell you that Magic simply doesn’t fit the game’s design goals. That being said, I wouldn’t necessarily consider bandages or herbs off the table all together. The thing with healing is finding a purpose for it in the game. Since you will automatically regen health while out of combat over time, the only value a healing item could have is if it was an instant-in combat heal. I don’t see much appeal in this personally, because healing is one of those things that feels great when you use it, when you heal yourself, but to the other player that has outmaneuvered you and dealt damage, now he has to do it over again because you pressed a button? It can be very frustrating.

    Movement Speed

    I will be the last person to try and defend the movement system that was present in aoc. We’ve changed things up this time around and sprint will be much more focused on traveling the environments as well as used to add excitement to the initial charge of battle. There is a much clearer distinction between sprinting and normal movement in Chiv.

    Looting/Powerups

    We’ve tossed some ideas around on the team with this one, but in the end the question we’ve never been able to really answer is “why?”. With a system like this, you are rewarding the player who is better, and making the game easier for him. It’s the same gripe I have with Call of Duty’s killstreak systems, why should the game be easier for the best players? Currently, you live for as long as you can manage on skill alone, and good players aren’t put on a pedestal beyond their own skills.

    Linear Progression

    While there will be Team Objective styled maps in Chiv again, featuring the same linear progression style that was present in aoc, you do not have to play them. I think these maps offer a lot of replay-ability and give players a unique and interesting objective to accomplish and work towards tactically outside of just beating their opponents in combat. That said, if you disagree, don’t play them! Chiv will feature many other game modes on many other maps and is a lot more open than aoc was in this matter. I imagine you would enjoy the Team Death match gamemode where each team has an equal but limited amount of reinforcements (spawns). I imagine these fights, especially in clanwars will become very tactical as each death by a player on your team is a step closer to defeat. That is where each death will truly matter.



  • Good read.
    I’m with you on the healing all the way Tibberius. The way it was implemented in MO is actually one of the reasons I stopped playing that game.



  • A comment on the tactics part, after watch a replay of a scrim i had played in (vanquish vs. takitons) for pure nostalgia i want to say that without certain tactics we wouldn’t have been able to finish the map, or we wouldn’t have been able to defend certain objectives. Our tactics versus our enemies are, at some points, very clear as to why we did better. Also looking at the roster of the players in that game they had some very high skilled players compared to us. I could fraps it and post it on youtube for you if you wish to see, i also have all but one game of replays from the dev team tournament (5v5).



  • georgatos7 watched the combat video, I like the gameplay more form AOC, MO that was just running around and trying to get beheind the enemys and hit them in the back.(Whats the fov on that game? looks like 60 or something :/ ). run away while jumping 2 feet in the air with chainmail, and running at great speed away to heal yourself fully. Repeat…… In AOC you can atleast attack to limit their movements to make them fight you. In MO you could dodge all you want, is there even blocking? Never the less it’s not needed to win in battle, because you can jump around like a dude with wings and use gorilla warefare to never fight anyone head on.

    In short MO gameplay is horrible, it’s just CSS with swords and magic. I would say AOC is better than that.



  • I like the healing the way it is now in AoC: Don’t do anything stamina-related for a while and your health will slowly regenerate. Any faster way of healing would mean your opponent running off, healing, and coming back again. This effect would be a lot larger if people took more hits to kill and therefore have more time to escape.

    Also, making people more hits per kill requires that you also rework the objectives on the maps. With more hits to a kill, it will make it harder to kill a bridge board carrier in Battlegrounds. Also, a shieldwhore capturing the first flag on battlegrounds is more prone to be succesful too. Etc.



  • I also agree healing should not be implemented, even from a historical note if you are wounded so much, that one more hit would kill you, your not going to miraculously heal all that health back no matter how much magic herbs a monk stuffs into the wound. Also fighting with melee weapons, especially against plate armour, was a very particular event- you were either taken out of the fight because a sword has just chopped down into your flank, or your armour will protect it and you will be left with a slight bruise (easily overcome). The only possible way you could survive 7 or so hits without plate armour would be to only get slightly cut and try not to faint due too blood loss.

    Also what Tibberius said about you needing to be constantly defending yourself becuase one slip up may be your end, but if your enemy fails you have to be ready to take advantage of it too win, was utter genius. Its like paying golf- even if each game has around 70 shots for par, one or two slip ups (eg a couple of double/triple bogeys) may cost you the game, whilst if you do one or two great shots (double birdie or even an eagle) your pretty much set too win or come very high as long as yoou don’t make a mistake. This is why there can be 50 players all getting scores from between -4 to +4 or so because there’s a fine line between victory and defeat.

    overall I think what we are all trying to say is don’t use your 9 wood in the bunker against an longbowman becuase most likely you’ll end-up slashing the caddie ^^



  • I appreciate it that you Tibberius and the other community members took the time to answer my post in a productive way that is being helpful for the conversation.

    I just want to make clear that since i can’t participate or try the game (CMW) my propositions are only based on AOC in comparison with my experience with MO and my arguments might be completely wrong or simply might not apply to CMW.

    @Tibberius:

    …I will freely admit that aoc lacked much teamwork in combat itself. I can also tell you that Chiv changes this, while an individual is still powerful on his own, an organized team will almost always dispatch a group of individuals even if they are less skilled. There is a greater sense of teamwork in Chiv even in alpha than there ever was in aoc…

    I’m really glad to hear that CMW’s mechanics will favor teamwork and tactics and that’s where i think the main focus of improving should be in comparison with AOC’s gameplay and feel.

    @Tibberius:

    …Two attackers were pushing the bombcart when 4 defenders rushed down the hill, the attackers fled terrified back from the bombcart to the bridge so they could regroup with their allies and try to assault it again. This sort of thing never happened in aoc but there is a much greater sense of teamwork and tactics in Chiv that hasn’t been shown in the current media so far (as it’s been mostly focused on 1 v 1)

    That’s how i hoped it will work. I’ll be glad to see some example videos in the future also.

    @Tibberius:

    …We’ve changed things up this time around and sprint will be much more focused on traveling the environments as well as used to add excitement to the initial charge of battle. There is a much clearer distinction between sprinting and normal movement in Chiv…

    Glad to hear that also because distinctive moving speeds means wider gameplay and more tactical variation.
    The think i noticed also and bothered me is that swinging while sprinting should be much more stamina expensive and not only slightly more expensive.

    @Tibberius:

    First off, just to avoid potential trolling of the thread I must tell you that Magic simply doesn’t fit the game’s design goals. That being said, I wouldn’t necessarily consider bandages or herbs off the table all together. The thing with healing is finding a purpose for it in the game. Since you will automatically regen health while out of combat over time, the only value a healing item could have is if it was an instant-in combat heal. I don’t see much appeal in this personally, because healing is one of those things that feels great when you use it, when you heal yourself, but to the other player that has outmaneuvered you and dealt damage, now he has to do it over again because you pressed a button? It can be very frustrating.

    Imo if healing makes it ingame it should only add to the tactical variety of the game.
    As a simple example falling back to regroup will not be only due to the reason of gathering higher numbers but also to take care of the wounds of your comrades instead of just letting them fight to death because they can just respawn.

    So, as for example for potions there should be a 5-10 sec animation and the amount of health you gain must be done gradually during that time, which means it will not be usable during a close fight since any movement or action should stop the procedure of gradual healing.

    If healing is well balanced it should allow someone who killed 2 or even 3 opponents on his own to actually be rewarded for that, so that he doesn’t remain 1 hit away from death for the rest of his round but also it will not allow him to do it forever (limited amount of potions/bandages).

    What i mean is that if we were allowed to spawn 10 times during the whole battle to preferably be allowed to spawn 5 times but with a chance of healing our selves up to full health using all our potions or bandages thus rewarding the skillful players and forcing the less skillful to come up with a better strategy than mindlessly [spawn] -> [deliver dmg] -> [die].
    That way dieing less or going unprepared against an opponent will have a greater impact on you and your faction/guild.

    @Tibberius:

    Looting/Powerups

    We’ve tossed some ideas around on the team with this one, but in the end the question we’ve never been able to really answer is “why?”. With a system like this, you are rewarding the player who is better…

    As for looting powerups and rewarding the better player will only mean that there will be a less reason to mindlessly charge forth against a challenge you can’t overcome and you should come up with a better strategy to face your opponents but as i said i will trust you guys in judging what’s best since i can’t be absolute in my opinion if i don’t actually try the game.

    @Tibberius:

    Teamwork/Tactics

    I’m not sure how you feel that longer fights would add to the teamwork and tactics, maybe thats something you could explain further…

    Sure.
    If by saying “longer battle” you mean the amount of hits you can take before dieing or even healing between small engagements here are some examples of how i think this will help.

    Firstly by thinking that having the ability to sustain more than 1 or 2 hits which can happen before you even realize it, means more chances for tactical defense and tactical retreat. Also healing provides more reasons to actually fall back to a more defendable spot, it gives more chances to skillful players to survive against zerging efforts etc.

    Also taking the “extreme” into account can be helpful in making more clear the difference between the 2 cases.

    So imagine a battlefield which is an 8 meters narrow path with 2 spawn points at each end.
    **
    Consider the game lets you sustain 1 or 2 hits tops before dieing, no healing and many re-spawns are allowed.**
    Imo the fight between those groups would have been something like spawn and charge forward alone or grouped and meet somewhere in the middle, kill or die in a few hits, rinse and repeat.
    No need to form groups if the group can collapse after receiving 4-8 hits in a couple of seconds which means 2-8 deaths and thus no group anymore (it’s imo not viable).

    Now consider the extreme opposite, which is the game mechanics allowing you to sustain 4-7 hits before dieing, limited healing is allowed but you can’t spawn so many times.
    Even though you can still see the battle going like in the first example there are more chances also to see the 2 sides forming 2 tight groups moving together, attacking or defending tactically with some of the players forming the first line falling back to treat their wounds while their comrades take their position in the first line of attack.

    Trying to make it even more clear, i wanna say that allowing 1-2 hit deaths is like playing tekken or virtua fighter with 1-2 hits per round for 20 rounds. No room to adapt to your opponents strategy, way more chances for even an unskilled player to kill a skillful player etc.
    The math can be exactly the same since 2 hits x 20 rounds = 8 hits x 5 rounds but the feel, skill and tactical variation involved is really on a different level between those 2 cases.

    That’s why i believe that both the cases (healing+more health or not) should be available ingame even if it is in the form of different game-modes.
    At least consider tweaking some variables to try it out now that the game is in an early level of development and tell us your opinions. :)



  • Also, providing players with more health will reduce the viability of flanking/backstabbing an unsuspecting opponent. Right now, in AoC, you can go Man at Arms and force the enemy to be aware of their surroundings by constantly harassing them from behind. With 4-7 hits a kill, the enemy can just react when they get hit and be done with it.

    Also with more hits to a kill you’d need more stamina.

    I really feel that giving players more health will result in people simply running away from fights etc. Right now, when fighting archers, that is already the case. They pop some arrows at you and as soon as you come close they run.

    Of course we could try all these situations in the C:MW alpha, if only we had alpha access…. :twisted:



  • @Dragonfury

    I know what you mean and indeed if it needed 4-7 hits you wouldn’t have the ability to 1-2 shot your opponent and he would have a chance to react if he wasn’t totally surprised (which is good imo) but even then he would have been in a terrible disadvantage.

    Also running away in every chance can be balanced (various stamina drain/gain adjustments) and indeed running away can save your life but in order to win you still need to get close to your opponent to hit him. Against archers though in the open field, what are the chances to win if you are wearing a heavy armor, you are heavily encumbered and you are not using a shield to protect yourself from the arrows?
    I agree though that if it’s not effectively balanced it can turn into a great advantage for the fast moving classes like in some cases in MO right now but then it’s a matter of balancing decisions.



  • OP, I understand what you want with the more health system. But you see that aspect of AOC was one of the systems that worked. It makes you more on edge as One blow could kill you, makes the battles more engading, more alive. In AOC you can kill a crusader the bowman class (with some luck), if you block, stab two times, crouch, dodge and block, and finish him with two quick slashes to the head.

    If you increased the health that would be impossible, they would dominate the small classes even more. The only way to kill them is luck, quickness, and the most important the element of suprise. you can’t fight the bigger classes fair, you get face to face it’s over (mostly anyway).



  • kk i won’t try to oppose any arguments about CMW since they are going to be baseless if i don’t have any experience from the actual game.
    I just stated some things i noticed while playing AOC that imo need to be improved but again trying to compare a game made with source engine and released in 2007 to a game made with unreal engine in it’s 2011 state (MO) and a game not yet released judging by videos is pointless so i guess i’ll wait for the end result.

    I just believe that CMW should revolutionize the gameplay in comparison with AOC and not just be a simple transfer to a newer engine.
    So, I’m going to trust the devs and hope that this game is going to end up being really awesome, that’s all.

    A few videos showing some alpha footage will at least ease the agony *snip. :(



  • Haha haa, no. Please continue to share your opinions on this forums as we all want to improve the game and have the developers listen.

    You know alot of MO which is useful, people like me who know AOC inside and can be a little
    narrow minded. But one of the things that made aoc so good was it’s fighting. So they did something right, you should approve of that. Completely changing it, I’m completely agianst, sorry.



  • Earlier in AoC when there was no regenerating health defenders were killing themselves in scrim to get full health after a wave of attackers, after the devs added the regenerating health you rarely saw this anymore, so i don’t think having any type of healing mechanic is needed is CMW. One of your larger gripes is the respawn system, i can tell you from experience that in competitive play just running in once you spawn is doing it wrong, you HAVE to wait for your teammates to spawn before you go in or else you won’t get anything done because 1 v 8 doesn’t usually work.



  • @Vox:

    Earlier in AoC when there was no regenerating health defenders were killing themselves in scrim to get full health after a wave of attackers, after the devs added the regenerating health you rarely saw this anymore, so i don’t think having any type of healing mechanic is needed is CMW. One of your larger gripes is the respawn system, i can tell you from experience that in competitive play just running in once you spawn is doing it wrong, you HAVE to wait for your teammates to spawn before you go in or else you won’t get anything done because 1 v 8 doesn’t usually work.

    ^

    I have no idea how MO plays, never tried it myself, but your idea of the game seems to be a lot like Team Fortress 2. Team Fortress 2 was designed to force teamwork and class composition with its excessive healing and super long engagements at mid-long range, with nobody dying very fast except up close (or to a sniper, which was just another thing that forced the rock-paper-scissors class composition). In short, it was designed for casual play, where you can just hop in a server and have the game pretty much direct you entirely on how you’re supposed to play by making it very clear why you’re losing: “The enemy team has heavies/medics/engineers and your team of scouts/pyros/soldiers with no medic support can’t even damage them,” so you go ahead and change class because no matter how good you might be with an individual class, a thousand games of experience throwing Rock won’t help you against a guy throwing out Paper for the first time.

    Now, this is the exact opposite of how AoC worked. There were class counters, but they were light at best - the Heavy Knight is slow and shieldless, so archers work well against him, but if he uses cover intelligently and can get close enough, he can kill an archer in a single hit with a throwing axe, while it takes a minimum of 2 bolts/javelins or 3 arrows to kill him. And if he can get into melee range, well, god help that archer. Either player can win this engagement depending on how intelligently they play, and how their team is assisting them. But other than that, there really is nothing that forces teamwork - you jump into a public server and everyone is trying to win the game solo (or not trying to win at all and just fragging); this can lead to endless stalemates of people running in suicidally going for kills and ignoring objectives until a small group of organized players make a push and end the game because they overwhelm the enemy’s disorganized defense while everyone else is focused on killing. They won through teamwork, and they utterly crushed the opposition because they were organized and set on their goal.

    That’s casual play. Now let’s look at competitive play, clan scrims and such. In TF2, competitive play has MASSIVE limitations on format. Generally the only competitive format is 6v6 on a few select CP maps, with a limit of only 1 demoman 1 medic and 1 heavy per team (previously heavy was limited to 2 like every other class, but because Valve felt he was too weak without a medic, they massively overbuffed him until he was on par with demoman/medic in strength; he was actually outright banned from competitive play for a while until he got nerfed back down a bit, because even competitive matches were just coming down to which heavy/medic combo got luckier with bullet spray, making the game very UN-competitive.) This stems from the game being balanced around casual play. A lot of things are also disabled in competitive play, like crits and random damage spread, but that’s to be expected.

    AoC and Chivalry will always be designed for competitive organized play. They don’t give you anything to make the game easier, it’s just you and your weapon of choice. The team that fights better and advances more cohesively through their objectives will win, regardless of what classes they choose to play. Competitive games of AoC were intense and grueling with every player ready to sacrifice themselves just to advance objective completion by 1%, because they were focused on the win and knew how to achieve it. It was very active and engaging rather than passive and slow paced like TF2 tends to be. A big part of this is the lack of healing in the game, by the way. You SHOULD be encouraged to fight on by knowing there’s nothing going to magically save you. In fact, the only kind of healing I’d ever approve of in Chivalry would be a class that screams bloody war cries every time he kills an enemy, which for some reason heals nearby teammates; because that encourages you to keep on fighting.

    I was actually like you when I first played AoC. It seems like forever ago now, and it was back before health regeneration. I felt like there weren’t enough options in a fight once you took a hit or two, and that healing would make the game faster if anything; in truth the slight health regeneration was all it took. Like Tibbs said, the only system that would be a noticeable difference compared to the health regeneration system would be instant healing that can be used in combat. There is no skill in that. First and foremost, that is why it should never be included in Chivalry. Because hitting a button and gaining health requires no real input; it’s power without gameplay.

    When judging whether or not something should be added to a game, you need to think of it objectively. What’s fun about the feature? Is it the act, or is it the result? If it’s just the result, it’s a bad feature. There’s nothing fun about tapping the “G” key to heal yourself, the fun comes from being able to keep on fighting afterwards. You could get the same result from tapping block and saving your life, but you actually did something in that case, and you feel accomplished for successfully blocking your enemy’s attack while getting the same net result as you would from your instant heal. The act of blocking the attack feels good, and surviving to keep on fighting feels good. Healing is less about making fights longer or making it more viable to continue fighting at low health, and more about making the game easier.



  • agreed healing that isn’t from resting behind the battle line just isn’t that fun in a major war. Although I do take your point about if a fight broke out between 5vs5 in a tight map it a could be over in 10-15 secs. Mind you the ways to change that would involve either increasing player health to proposterous levels so that hitting someone dead in the chesit with a warhammer still wouldn’t kill them (possibly a bit too unrealistic), or decreasing weapon damage on just about all of the other weapons like 1h swords+spears, but then ofc ppl wwould complain that the few weapons that still dealt high dmg, 2h axe etc, where completely OP, which ofc they would be. If this still turns out to be a problem then a solution would be too stick so,e sort of mechanic in that if a blow would only do like 10 damage then it is completely neglected altogether as your armour deflects it. I think m&b (not another game reference huh?) had something like this which prevented half-hearted stabs from 5 inches away from still doing large amounts of damage. This ofc also depended on your armour, so mail (say maa armour) would only deflect things like spear prods or some very bad sword attacks, whilst a uber-expensive-game-winning knight’s plate armour was virtually indestructable other than by some freak with a sledge-hammer or great axe lol-spinning. This might be even better in chiv as it has stamina which affects damage force/too.


Log in to reply