Should the game be as balanced as possible?



  • Balance is based around winning. Meaning how much you contribute to your team winning, In FFA everyone is in their own team for comparison. The winning conditions are multiple, but 97% of the time it boils down to how many kills/damage/score you can accumulate per amount of time or damage/kill per death (last man standing).

    Then theres also the factor of fun. People dont like archers being powerful because its not fun not being able to fight back immediately (instant gratification) - being backraped by another melee class is similar, but then theres a chance you can fight back instantly.
    I am sure everyone realizes examples dont mean anything, because 99% of the time they are out of context. But seeing countless "how to play"s and examples and other stuff in balance topics, its like a protest by people who either dont like change, do not grasp the differences balance changes would make and therefore do not think its worth it because the game is fun for them or do not grasp the sense of balance and thus think the game is currently balanced (sometimes perfectly).

    Maybe we can finally put this issue to the rest and maybe lock the balance topic and instead create a “How to make the game more fun discussion” topic instead.



  • Balance is fun. Anyone who doesn’t appreciate balance should go back to Mario Kart or something.



  • Mario Kart is pretty balanced.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Mario Kart is pretty balanced.

    Yes, random items and getting blue shelled randomly right before you win the match is so so balanced. Winning or losing because you or someone else got a red shell instead of green is balanced.



  • Not seeing what’s imbalanced about that. Unless you’re implying some characters get blue shells more than others. Is poker also imbalanced? :)



  • @SlyGoat:

    Not seeing what’s imbalanced about that. Unless you’re implying some characters get blue shells more than others. Is poker also imbalanced? :)

    Random is unbalanced. League of Legends removed dodge chance. Why? Because random is unbalanced. Competitive Smash Brothers tournaments play without items and only choose certain stages. Why? Because random is unbalanced. Any competitive gamer understands randomization has no place in it.



  • You’re mistaking competitiveness for balance.

    But again, poker is essentially entirely random and remains competitive.

    And Mario Kart can also be played with items turned off or only using the low impact items.



  • im an old school mario kart fan, havent played the new stuff, but in the old days a banana peel would block shells? is thaqt not the case anymore? if it still can, just carry a peel.

    balance doesnt however mean fair, and thats something people dotn realize. balance doesnt mean that a and b will perform at an equal level. a can be outright better then b, b can still be balenced. but how?

    in som eolder games a would be better in every way, but have almost no ammo or resources to make it work, b was weaker but it was abundant. it was balanced because a was limited use, b was always there.

    alot of people believe balance means fair, means equal. and it doesnt. you can balance like that, but i find it not as fun. you can balance alternately, like most RTS games. each side has totally differnt units, but they are overall balanced to each other. some may excell in diffrent areas, but their overall potential was equal.

    i think a game, even unbalanced can be tremendously fun. and i think its entertainment that should be the primary goal, not balancing. and theres a reason for that, and thats ermergent gameplay. when you build a game balance first, you tend to sevearly limit the players ability to invent things on their own. quake had this, strafe jumping was something that was not a design feature, and if the game was designed balance first, it might have been cought. but when players found it out, it became such a core feature that alot of shooters afterwards left it in. if chiv is designed by adding things of entertainment first, then we will have periods likely where things are not “equal” but it also means we can see some interesting things that may be adapted into features.



  • The strafe jump was maybe unbalanced in single player? In terms of that strafe jump is technically an exploit.



  • @SlyGoat:

    You’re mistaking competitiveness for balance.

    But again, poker is essentially entirely random and remains competitive.

    And Mario Kart can also be played with items turned off or only using the low impact items.

    I think balance goes hand in hand with competition. The whole point of balance is to create more/better competition.

    Poker isn’t a competitive game you can take seriously IMO, there’s so much luck involved that while yes, player skill can mean a great deal, it’s very possible to win or lose simply based on luck.

    Mario Kart isn’t very balanced and competitive game even without items.



  • @Sultanofswing:

    Balance is based around winning. Meaning how much you contribute to your team winning, In FFA everyone is in their own team for comparison. The winning conditions are multiple, but 97% of the time it boils down to how many kills/damage/score you can accumulate per amount of time or damage/kill per death (last man standing).

    Then theres also the factor of fun. People dont like archers being powerful because its not fun not being able to fight back immediately (instant gratification) - being backraped by another melee class is similar, but then theres a chance you can fight back instantly.
    I am sure everyone realizes examples dont mean anything, because 99% of the time they are out of context. But seeing countless "how to play"s and examples and other stuff in balance topics, its like a protest by people who either dont like change, do not grasp the differences balance changes would make and therefore do not think its worth it because the game is fun for them or do not grasp the sense of balance and thus think the game is currently balanced (sometimes perfectly).

    Maybe we can finally put this issue to the rest and maybe lock the balance topic and instead create a “How to make the game more fun discussion” topic instead.

    What is your point?
    I can’t see one.