Feinting makes this game completely into a mindgame



  • hi

    i think that they way feints are implemented as of now are making this game a mindreading/luck based game instead of a reactionbased skillgame.

    the reason for this is that there is a large time window after u wind up your attack where you can decide to feint or attack - depends on the weapon though. with some weapons you can decide to feint very shortly before you would attack if the feint button havent been pressed.

    this shouldnt be possible, it should only be possible to feint right after the windup.

    the reason for this is that u can never know if your enemy is going to feint or going for the attack, the time window for being able to break the attack is just too big.

    now IF it would be possible to only feint right after your windup, a skillfull player can delay his first impulse to block until he sees the real attack coming. imho this is like it should be.

    but for now, if you wait to see if hes attacking or feinting to adjust what you are gonna do, you are already dead because he can hold his attack so long that you just cant tell if he will fient or attack until its too late.



  • I was wondering when we might see a topic like this, I actually didn’t expect it just yet because feinting is a very high level mechanic. If I’m in a public server, I see about 1 feint an hour (excluding my own use) whereas if I’m in the RK duel server, I see about 1 feint a second from each person. Playing in the RK server becomes a guessing game, and everyone hates the person who feints the best, which is usually Sophax, lol. Essentially, we can only tell if a feint is truly a feint when the weapon exits windup, and because most attacks hit within the first 0.2s of a release, well, good luck waiting and reacting to that, especially stabs, and if you parry earlier, you’re then pretty much doomed and fell right into the feinter’s trap.

    Personally, I dislike the concept of feinting altogether, it’s not medieval at all, but we are left with a dilemma - combat can theoretically last forever in Chivalry between two players who don’t make mistakes.

    I predict if feints remain the way they are, feinting and guessplay will form not just a huge part of competitive play later, but the primary, major part. Exchanging blows will be noobish and slow the pace of combat, and feint spam will win every fight… and this is exactly the reason why I’m practically forcing everyone to master feint.



  • Actually I was surprised how small the time frame for feint was at first. In M&B the time frame is much bigger…



  • M&B feints are different though, aren’t they? A feint in M&B allows you to change the direction of an attack, and parries can be held indefinitely. In Chivalry, a feint’s purpose is to force the defender to do a parry, so you can hit them during their recovery. The defender can only guess when the real attack is coming, there is absolutely 0 indication from the get go whether an incoming attack is real or fake - so the question is, when do I parry?



  • The obvious solution for me would be to do what M&B did and let you parry quickly one after another without delay so there is no technical advantage for the feinter and it’s all about reaction speed.



  • I don’t see a problem with it. It allows you to (even further) develop your own fighting style, and it punishes bad players. On top of that, it’s really the only downside to not having a shield (given you know how to parry and are capable of dodging rather than 100% blocking everything).

    I have more of a problem with parries. Really, what magical power is forcing my character to lower their parry after half a second?



  • I am also against the faint like it is now, It can be really frustrating when the combat depends on luck, it should be alot harder to do a faint, and maybe if you fail doing one you should be for a longer time vulnerable, or a faint should consume more stamina. But we need an idea to improve this as soon as possible.



  • Hypothetical: Enemy if a feint spamming knight/vanguard.
    Solution: Play aggressively and don’t let him intimidate you and force you into backpedal + right click spam. Just keep attacking and his feints will cause his attacks to land slower than yours. Seems pretty simple.

    Hypothetical: Enemy is a feint spamming man at arms that uses forward dash.
    Solution: Cry tears of anguish and hope it ends soon



  • Imo the key against feints is to keep distance. Gives you enough time to stay out of fast-contact zones and be able to react accordingly, either by counter attacking or feinting yourself. - heck even feint into parry, I like keeping my distance against good players.



  • ^^^^^^ Everyone should watch shara’s videos, even if it’s for nothing more than perspective.

    I think feints are fantastic. Whenever I get faked out and die because of it, I always chuckle. I know I was outplayed and it’s as simple as that. I rather like the mind game element it adds to battles. Really awesome stuff in my opinion.

    You also don’t have to block until right at the last second. This can give you an opportunity to see if your opponent is truly following through with his swing, or just feinting.



  • Kind of a difficult one this.

    Perhaps if faint was removed and parrying was made harder with a tighter window in which you had to time a parry. relaying more on precision timing to parry a blow. The problem then could be that this further encourages spamming. Constant attacks until your opponent miss time a parry.

    Not sure that would really work….

    Probably best if the system stays as is unless the devs come up with something internally that bests it.



  • @Shara:

    Imo the key against feints is to keep distance. Gives you enough time to stay out of fast-contact zones and be able to react accordingly, either by counter attacking or feinting yourself. - heck even feint into parry, I like keeping my distance against good players.

    but how to keep distance against maa’s or 1handed knights who are sprinting towards you?
    via kicks maybe?
    you might make a video about how to deal with feints, would appreciate that



  • You can only cancel the first half on an attack. Past this, it’s a real attack. Create a game with a bot in ffa, they really like to feint, then it becomes more obvious when to parry.



  • @Nerfed:

    I have more of a problem with parries. Really, what magical power is forcing my character to lower their parry after half a second?

    Because a parry is a reaction move forced on guiding movement to avoid a hit and not a solid placement……where a shield is an UP/DOWN mechanic more than anything.



  • @kamoa:

    You can only cancel the first half on an attack. Past this, it’s a real attack. Create a game with a bot in ffa, they really like to feint, then it becomes more obvious when to parry.

    thats not true
    the bots could feint longer, the game mechanic does allow that.
    they are just programmed not to.



  • Theme music for dueling in this game.

    kl6jwab3HWk



  • The obvious solution for me would be to do what M&B did and let you parry quickly one after another without delay so there is no technical advantage for the feinter and it’s all about reaction speed.

    The problem with that is you make parry spamming a viable tactic, meaning you could theoretically mess up a parry by parrying to early against a slow weapon then immediately parry again and be safe and dry. The recovery is there to promote capitalising on other people’s mistakes.

    I don’t see a problem with it. It allows you to (even further) develop your own fighting style, and it punishes bad players.

    But there’s your problem - it doesn’t punish bad players whatsoever so it cannot be a fighting style you develop, you just do it, and hope your opponent guesses incorrectly; they could be the best player in the entire game, but if they guess wrong, they are open to an attack after the feint. It actually punishes those who don’t have a crystal ball and psychic powers.

    I have more of a problem with parries. Really, what magical power is forcing my character to lower their parry after half a second?

    Game design decision to allow capitalising on other’s mistakes, i.e parrying too early (try not to confuse this issue with feints, as animations can be read and learnt, feints cannot).

    Solution: Play aggressively and don’t let him intimidate you and force you into backpedal + right click spam. Just keep attacking and his feints will cause his attacks to land slower than yours. Seems pretty simple

    Again this doesn’t work because after trading blows a couple of times, whether or not that next attack is truly an attack or not is complete guesswork. Lets say you attack me, I parry you, I attack you, you parry me, you attack me, I parry you, I attack you, but I don’t, I feinted you, you have no idea so you parry expecting an attack and there was absolutely no way of knowing or an indication of that being a feint. I can now hit you while you’re in recovery and I get a free hit. Also, I’m not entirely sure what you mean by right click spam. Feints in the above example can occur at any point by the way, the first attack, the second, the third, two of the three, all three times, or only on the third.

    Imo the key against feints is to keep distance.

    A player won’t feint unless they are forcing you to parry, ergo they will be in distance to land the real attack (if they are not, that’s their fault and a mistake on their end). You said this yourself in your second video - don’t feint out of range because it won’t work.

    You also don’t have to block until right at the last second.

    I refer you to a previous point I made:

    Essentially, we can only tell if an attack is truly an attack when the weapon exits windup, and because most attacks hit within the first 0.2s of a release, well, good luck waiting and reacting to that, especially stabs, and if you parry earlier, you’re then pretty much doomed and fell right into the feinter’s trap.

    You can only cancel the first half on an attack. Past this, it’s a real attack. Create a game with a bot in ffa, they really like to feint, then it becomes more obvious when to parry.

    I refer you to the quote above this one.



  • @Martin:

    I don’t see a problem with it. It allows you to (even further) develop your own fighting style, and it punishes bad players.

    But there’s your problem - it doesn’t punish bad players whatsoever so it cannot be a fighting style you develop, you just do it, and hope your opponent guesses incorrectly; they could be the best player in the entire game, but if they guess wrong, they are open to an attack after the feint. It actually punishes those who don’t have a crystal ball and psychic powers.

    I don’t think discussing will achieve much as we have obviously differing opinions on feigns. However, I will say it does punish bad players. If someone attempts to parry all your attacks, or tries the “hit, parry, hit, parry” strategy a lot of people tend to use, you can use feigns and get free hits on them. So in that sense, it does punish poor play.

    That said, the only thing I really agree is wrong with feigns, is how late in a windup they can still be used. There should be a small frame at the start of a windup, enough to throw bad players off while still allowing actually skilled/trained players to tell feign from attack.



  • We will have to agree to disagree on that point then :)



  • It makes the fights more challenging, if your enemy doesn’t use feints you can easily see when he is going to hit you and just parry it.


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