A couple of balance suggestions

  • My first post here! Will make it worthwhile.

    I’ve played the game for few days now, read the most problematic issues on the forum and have a few ideas what might help.

    Right now the balancing of the weapons is primary working with Damage VS Class and Speed (wind up, combo, recover …)

    Maybe I am not the first to say this, but sometimes such data might not be enough for achieving perfect balance. Damage, for example, may vary, but at the end it just how many hits you need to kill the enemy player. Other variation of the damage matter only if you’re fighting mixed enemies with different weapons. Otherwise having 6 hp left or 46 left won’t matter if the weapon deals 60 damage.

    I played mostly archer and found that the Short bow is kinda sucky and the warbow is kind-a better version of the long bow.

    The medium crossbow is the best as the light has very little damage. Similar with the heavy - damage increase is insignificant compared to the medium.

    Yet here come the problems - tweaking the damage, even a little, might break those weapons. For example - heavy crossbow with increased damage will be 1-shotting everything. This isn’t cool.

    I suggest implementing another set of minor mechanics that will increase the variety of the those ranged weapons adding another layer of tactics.

    =Bow suggestions=

    Implementing something like improved aiming mechanism. I believe mount and blade has something similar.

    Works like this - pull the bow. First 1-2 sec your aim is bad - crosshair is big and the arrow may stray. After holding it for the next 1-2 sec, you will have your aim improve - corsshair goes small and significantly more accurate.

    • This will allow, for example, the short bow to have really fast pull time yet slower aim time. One will be able to deliver quick shots with low accuracy making a good close ranged weapon.

    • The warbow, right now feels better than the long bow. If it’s made very accurate, yet with slower pull and slower aim to the long bow, it might have some more significant disadvantages to consider in all situations.

    Also, I don’t how how this is working right now - the short bow might have a little bit more faster walking speed when aimed, compared to the other bows. Still slower than normal speed.

    =Arrow suggestions=

    Actually I am a bit stuck with the arrows. The only thing I can think of, that is meaningful, is making the broad arrow having increased damage VS MAA.

    =Crossbow suggestions=

    Crossbows are pretty similar to work with, yet they should feel different enough to have any meaning of choice.

    I have two ideas that might make the heavy crossbow more interesting:

    • Pierce - it might have a chance to pierce through shield and deliver reduced damage to the enemy. Pierce chance depending on the type of shield. The smaller ones (wooden) pierced more easily, while the metal ones - more difficult. Pierce should include the archer’s shield as well (considering it’s not a hell to implement).

    Pierce damage should be ~50% or even less. The idea is - when you see a heavy crossbow, you know it’s pretty slow, yet it posses this trait of constant threat.

    (Also it should be considered it a successful pierce shot should break the block or not. Breaking a the block might be too powerful if another archer is waiting for that moment of weakness)

    • Stun - Stun is - being hit by heavy crossbow - have reduced speed for ~0.5 sec. Can still block and attack. This by itself isn’t an advantage for the crossbow man but it can be advantage for other team mates.

    Both pierce and stun are independent suggestions from each other.

    • The light crossbow then? A good option is - having better speed when aimed, compared to the other 2 crossbows (and still slower than normal speed). Also - bigger quiver.

    Another suggestion might be - the ability to walk very slowly while reloading. I believe this might be difficult to implement.

    =Overwhelm suggestions=

    From what I see in-game and read here - having someone pounding your ass from point blank range can be difficult to deal with. Not because of the sheer skill of the attacker but because one cannot actually block his attacks since his tracers are coming from behind or very sideways your character which require you to turn more than 90 degrees in order to parry - and this is almost impossible in a fight.

    • The first suggestion I have is - when someone performs a combo, to have some sort of locked turning angle. I.e. if you are continuing your 2nd+ combo hit, you can turn maximum 90 degrees or something similar. This will still allow good maneuverability and aiming while disallowing 180 degree turns between the combo hits - i.e. button mashing might cause reduced efficiently at point blank range.

    This is tricky suggestion as it’s restrictions might come as annoying to the players. Also - in chaotic skirmish (you between few other enemies), mashing buttons will become less effective.

    • The second suggestions influences the tracers. It’s simple - reduced damage at the start of the tracers (attached pic). Orange tracers shows where the damage is reduced.

    The idea is simple - at the beginning of the swing the weapon does not have enough momentum to be as deadly. Of course this idea will work with swings and not so much with stab attacks. Should decrease the efficiency of chaotic swingers in melee with around ~10% and won’t affect the duels that much.

  • Agree…

    The developers said “we are making a brand new mechanism of game for insuring players will not use unrealistic mechanics” But the “whirling” is actually much more good now then in AOC.

    1)There MUST be a restriction for angle of swing.
    2)Every hit Must have a dead angle (where you just got swinged but the weapon doesnt have any speed). So if you hit somebody in this state - there will be NO damage or MUCH less (try to hit somebody, who is already in touch with your blade).

    Really it’s one of the best tactics against blunt weapons - to adhere to it. So enemy cannot set enough speed to the weapon before it hits you!

    That will really make big weapons not so awsome while flanked! And some players will no more turn with wheir right side while swinging to make the swing apply damage faster! It’s unrealistic!!! It must be fixed!

    Why the game is so unrealistic about that?

  • I don’t like the idea about making more restrictions on the way melee combat is in chivalry at the moment, it would ruin too much for us profesional people, and we don’t exactly have a problem with slash when it comes to a public game. However, with average public players playing, there will always be slash spams because I believe most of them either thinks its the most accurate strike, or if they don’t know any better. Slash is an important strike for when it comes to a duel, its rapid and has most accuracy, though its adviced to have a mixed style between slashing, overheading and of course stabbing.

    I can tell you this about the projectile weapons that they WILL most likely never be made so that their projectile can pierce enemy shields, however there should be some knockback into the shot.

    Crossbows at its current state is in my opinion bad, however the bows are perfectly balanced. if you disagree, then you obviously haven’t met a guy who really knows how to use the speed on his shortbow, or the accuracy of his warbow.

  • A Heavy Crossbow bolt should be putting a Knight on its last legs, literally with less than 10 health if it’s a body shot, actually, I’d much rather have the Heavy Crossbow one hit kill a Knight with a torso shot, but not if it’s an arm shot, but that’d be unpopular because too many people play melee classes almost exclusively and complain because they didn’t pick a shield and protect themselves against it and react to the HC use on the battlefield and just carry on going around with throwing axes instead. A head shot should definitely be killing a Knight though, and an Archer and MAA should be dieing in a single bolt regardless of location and the Vanguard should only survive it if it was a leg or arm shot. If the reload time has to be extended, so be it.

  • There is no real reason to use the Heavy Crossbow now unless you wannna be sniping from long distances. (Taking care of pesky enemy archers.) The animation for the Heavy Crossbow could be better as well. Thought it would be as hectic as the Crossbows used in Stronghold when reloading.

    Now if they just balance the Javelins better :o.

  • Can you explain whats the dif between striking with javelin or throwing it from 2 meters?
    Why throwing makes damage way bigger?

    Developers said they will fix it in CMF, but it is still as it was 2 years ago!
    Developers persuaded that javelins will do increased damage if you are running in the same direction, but according to published tables there is NO difference.

    Thats just stupid. What’s new in this game? I can only see worse parry system. Nothing changed… people are still whirling-blading and turn-around stabbing (especially MAA).

  • Problem with the different crossbows, IMO - they don’t have a different purpose. They’re all the same thing - one shot, hopefully get a kill, reload. This not only makes them too similar when compared to eachother, it also makes them overall inferior to bows. I would like to see crossbows be the sniper rifles of the game, the weapons that truly take advantage of that 1.5x head multiplier and win at a distance to compensate for their vulnerability while reloading.

    I think every crossbow should do the same amount of damage (70), but also should have its own damage type - lightbolt, mediumbolt and heavybolt. Lightbolt - 100% to archer/MaA, 75% to VG, 50% to Knight. That’s 2 headshots to kill a knight - 1 to kill MaA or archer - VG takes 2 to the body. Mediumbolt - 100% to archer/MaA/VG, 75% to Knight. Knight only needs 2 to the body to kill now. Heavybolt - 100% to all. Anything dies in one headshot. Congratulations, you now possess the only weapon in the game that will oneshot a Knight.

    Now you’re probably thinking “Well this seems like a buff to the heavy crossbow, but for the rest of them this is garbage and worse than they function now!” - that is true. Light crossbow currently one shots a VG with a headshot, so this would overall be a nerf to anything but the heavy cross (and a nerf to every crossbow if you’re relying on body hits); but this is just damage. Obviously you can’t have a sniper weapon with as slow a projectile as crossbows currently have, so quite simply, increase projectile speed significantly. Say a 40% faster projectile for the light, 55% for medium and 70% for heavy.

    This allows crossbows to be proper headhunting sniper weapons but disallows a body hit from ever killing in one shot. Body shots can still find mild success because you’ll take any class but Knight in 2 with the Light Crossbow, and take a Knight in 2 with the Medium.

    I don’t agree with your bow suggestions. I don’t really know what’s to be done to balance the bows - I feel like the shortbow vs. warbow is already very distinct, the warbow does ridiculous bursts of damage and the shortbow is good for harrassing while staying mobile (you can barely move while aiming the warbow, while you can move almost at normal walking speed with the shortbow). The longbow is just a strange middle-ground which is the better anti-archer weapon if you’re using bodkins because you only need one headshot and can strafe better/fire faster than the warbow can - but if you opt for broadheads with the warbow it’s just one bodyshot to kill an archer anyway, so warbow can fill the anti-archer role better as well. The idea of decreased accuracy for snap-firing sounds like it will just screw up the shortbow more than anything, and discourage you from aiming for the head because you’ll be far more likely to miss. This isn’t an FPS; you aren’t shooting 20 rounds per second. The law of large numbers doesn’t apply when you’ll only get maybe 3 shots off before one of you is dead. A random inaccuracy miss here is fatal - and if the inaccuracy is so low that misses from spread are extremely rare, it might as well not exist (as is the case currently). It takes the outcome of a fight out of the hands of the player and gives it over to luck. One thing I think needs to change to help balance out the bows is ammo count - drop the warbow to 20 arrows, leave the longbow at 30 and up the shortbow to 40. I never run out of ammo on the warbow, ever; on the shortbow I very often do, and you’re closer to the fight with it so you’re usually further from an ammo source as well.

    I think bodkins vs. broadheads is just silly and will be too difficult to balance in terms of changing damage against targets; it isn’t like my crossbow suggestion where it’s simply heavier crossbow = better anti-armor, because you’re balancing 6 independent damage values, and it will boil down to # of hits to kill a full HP enemy most of the time. Already we’re seeing the polarizing effect of broadheads vs. bodkins even though current broadheads only do more damage to archers - meaning the only time broadheads are an option is on the warbow for one-hit kills to the body of an archer, which on its own can make it a good choice. Bodkins should simply travel faster and further, while broadheads do more damage; the armor penetrating properties of bodkin arrows are largely exaggerated, and broadheads create larger wounds when they do penetrate. The main advantage of bodkin arrows was actually that they were cheaper to mass produce; but they’re also lighter and suffer less drag, so that’s how they should be portrayed in the game IMO.

  • You got valid point about the bows. I agree with you.

    The ammo suggestion is good IMO as well.

  • @Arcador:

    Implementing something like improved aiming mechanism. I believe mount and blade has something similar.

    Works like this - pull the bow. First 1-2 sec your aim is bad - crosshair is big and the arrow may stray. After holding it for the next 1-2 sec, you will have your aim improve - corsshair goes small and significantly more accurate.

    • This will allow, for example, the short bow to have really fast pull time yet slower aim time. One will be able to deliver quick shots with low accuracy making a good close ranged weapon.


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