Better incentive needed for objectives



  • -It’s easier to get lots of kills and farm points then to try and attack an objective
    -Points should be awarded for attacking objectives; if this is already the case then it needs to be more obvious (I honestly can’t tell if I get points for objectives)
    -Directions to objectives can be very unclear (IE: Trebuchets need 2 players to destroy and they need to stand in specific spots around the Trebuchet.)
    http://i.imgur.com/hbLQp.jpg

    We need:
    -Better defined objectives with more obvious instructions.
    -More incentive for attacking objectives (I’ve literally stood on the trebuchet pannel and watched teammates stab dead bodies instead of helping me.)



  • I concur! +1



  • I dunno’. I don’t think that’s the problem. I think the problem is that attacking team just requires too much team work that’s too frustrating in public games full of randoms. The game focuses on killing lots of enemies while at the same time playing the objective, they did a great job on that.



  • @SOC:

    I dunno’. I don’t think that’s the problem. I think the problem is that attacking team just requires too much team work that’s too frustrating in public games full of randoms. The game focuses on killing lots of enemies while at the same time playing the objective, they did a great job on that.

    It is frustrating, which is why I would like to see more mechanics in the game to guide players to the objective and not leave them playing TDM the whole time. We already have tonnes of deathmatch servers/maps so there’s no need to sit by and allow it when there is also an objective to work towards.

    If you want to fight other players more, then you can join a TDM server but if you want to kill peasants and push carts while fighting enemy players then you can join one of those servers. I think there needs to be a bit more to emphasize the objective and de-emphasize the killing a bit. (A point reward decrease for kills and increase in objective play would be a great start)



  • But the problem isn’t that they’re all playing TDM, the problem are the spawns. Attacking team players respawn and just rush the objectively by themselves immediately or with small groups and constantly trickle in deaths for the defending team instead of making giant full-team pushes like you’re supposed to. Rewarding players for playing the objective more wouldn’t really fix it. Rewarding players for playing as a team more might, but I don’t want to see it shift towards that unless it’s in clan battles. I want public games to have strong focus on personal skill, so I can carry my always bad team mates because I’m that good and not depend on them to do anything.



  • this same complaint/argument crops up in many games.

    Fact of the matter is, alot of people just want to run in and kill things! Objective modes are good sure, but mostly because they provide a bit of changing scenery. Other than that the better part of the game is still just about killing other people.

    In my experiences, if 10-20% of the team is focusing on objectives at any one time thats enough. At the same time, that minority is creating bloodpools around them, and they inevitably draw more players to the location that needs assistance.

    This game is great as it is. The objectives are pretty simple and straightforward to the point that only a few people really need to focus on getting it done. The rest can randomly kill stuff and still be somewhat helpful.

    imo.

    If you want complete and utter objective driven games. Join a clan and play some competitive matches.



  • I think the problem is the actual TDM mode right now is very unsatisfying. With a lot of players, rounds are extremely short, and then you have to wait and watching the last few hiding archers get killed off after your respawns run out.

    With an improved TDM players who just want to kill people without all of the randomness of FFA will have more options. Although objective points at the moment are very unclear for players and counterinuitive in how they’re earned - for the most part, you get objective points just for standing near the objective. This is fine for offense, because that’s what they should be doing - but for defense it’s not really accurate. Your objective points should come from killing enemies who are completing an objective. This would also reward archers more on defense as they’re often defending from further back if they’re watching the objective, rather than standing right on it.

    20 points for killing an enemy on an objective, 10 points for assisting in killing an enemy on an objective - more points for completing objectives in certain areas on offense (like points for every attack made against the walls on the last objective of darkforest, for every time you ram the gate on stoneshill, etc), etc.



  • TLDR at the bottom.
    @SOC:

    But the problem isn’t that they’re all playing TDM, the problem are the spawns. Attacking team players respawn and just rush the objectively by themselves immediately or with small groups and constantly trickle in deaths for the defending team instead of making giant full-team pushes like you’re supposed to. Rewarding players for playing the objective more wouldn’t really fix it. Rewarding players for playing as a team more might, but I don’t want to see it shift towards that unless it’s in clan battles. I want public games to have strong focus on personal skill, so I can carry my always bad team mates because I’m that good and not depend on them to do anything.

    That’s a good point about the spawns. How could you promote team play without inhibiting a personal skill advantage? What about small buffs for being in a group of allies or debuffs for being alone in a group of enemies? They could be very small but give a slight edge, encouraging players to group up. + a small % to total health, damage, movement speed & etc would be a good start.

    @tyrion:

    this same complaint/argument crops up in many games.

    Fact of the matter is, alot of people just want to run in and kill things! Objective modes are good sure, but mostly because they provide a bit of changing scenery. Other than that the better part of the game is still just about killing other people.

    In my experiences, if 10-20% of the team is focusing on objectives at any one time thats enough. At the same time, that minority is creating bloodpools around them, and they inevitably draw more players to the location that needs assistance.

    This game is great as it is. The objectives are pretty simple and straightforward to the point that only a few people really need to focus on getting it done. The rest can randomly kill stuff and still be somewhat helpful.

    imo.

    If you want complete and utter objective driven games. Join a clan and play some competitive matches.

    I’m not suggesting the game be turned on its head to accommodate team play, I’m saying we just need a nudge to get players working together a bit more. Besides that, the objectives are NOT always simple and straightforward. The trebuchet map is a main culprit where 2 players are needed standing in specific spots around the trebuchet to capture it. If you have 2 players standing by it, but not in the right location, it will not be captured. THIS can be simplified; just make it any 2 players standing around it in any location and NOT 2 specific locations.

    Furthermore, this map requires a level of coordination that’s nearly impossible in pub play where multiple players need to coordinate in different areas to win. There needs to be something there to help encourage players to pay attention to these objectives, and I think that would greatly improve pub play. Just give players a small indication that they will get points for completing objectives and we could greatly improve the coordination here.

    Like I said, we already have TDM mode. If you want to run around and kill stuff, which I don’t disagree is pretty solid in Chivalry, then you can go play those maps. However, if I’m on an objective map and I see my allies are more interested in poking dead bodies then helping me, that tells me that there needs to be a bit of encouragement towards the objectives over killing.

    TLDR: TDM is where we should focus on killing. Let’s make objectives a bit more clear & make point rewards more obvious to encourage more team play in pub games. Maybe we could use a small buff/debuff for grouped players also?



  • tl;dr

    I’m all for objectives being more obvious and incentive. Let’s gain scores for holding objectives.

    It took me quite some time to notice I’m supposed to stand on these wooden pallets to take down the trebuchets. My first thought was to just swing my sword at it until it goes down ^^



  • +1!!! the trebuchet part is frustrating , i stood on the plank for amost 40 secs while 3 of my teammates were going by the mason spawn trying to get kills … they didnt even tried to defend me or cap the other plank … they need better indicators



  • I’m happy to see confirmation of my own thoughts.

    How about a simple points counter that pops up when you gain points?
    We could make it toggle-able so players whom don’t like it can turn it off.
    Ideally, it pops up in a corner or edge of the screen when you get points and tells you what you did and how many points you’ve earned, then fades away over 1 or 2 seconds.
    Turn it on by default so new players see that they’re getting points for attacking/defending objectives and give us the option to turn it off as we become more experienced.

    Here’s a basic mock-up of the idea.
    Note: I’m suggesting we use one spot for the indicator, not multiple.



  • @Fields:

    -It’s easier to get lots of kills and farm points then to try and attack an objective
    -Points should be awarded for attacking objectives; if this is already the case then it needs to be more obvious (I honestly can’t tell if I get points for objectives)
    -Directions to objectives can be very unclear (IE: Trebuchets need 2 players to destroy and they need to stand in specific spots around the Trebuchet.)
    http://i.imgur.com/hbLQp.jpg

    We need:
    -Better defined objectives with more obvious instructions.
    -More incentive for attacking objectives (I’ve literally stood on the trebuchet pannel and watched teammates stab dead bodies instead of helping me.)

    Totally agree.

    But what I don´t want to see on my screen are any “Push Cart +1” thingies… The less stuff clutters my screen, the better. First thing I do after joining a game?
    Press U (and smile)
    Press H (after checking Obj. status/what to do/where to go)

    Best would be to make it optional, just like Fields suggested. Makes everyone happy.



  • @William:

    Totally agree.

    But what I don´t want to see on my screen are any “Push Cart +1” thingies… The less stuff clutters my screen, the better. First thing I do after joining a game?
    Press U (and smile)
    Press H (after checking Obj. status/what to do/where to go)

    Best would be to make it optional, just like Fields suggested. Makes everyone happy.

    Yes, I recognize the fact that the devs wanted to keep the screen as clean as possible and I think giving a toggle-able feature like this would be an ideal solution.



  • @William:

    But what I don´t want to see on my screen are any “Push Cart +1” thingies… The less stuff clutters my screen, the better. First thing I do after joining a game?
    Press U (and smile)
    Press H (after checking Obj. status/what to do/where to go)

    Agree, that’s what I also do first. However, I press H again for the “defend the king” objective as I need to know where he is. That and the trebuchets… need to know which one is still working.

    @Fields:

    Yes, I recognize the fact that the devs wanted to keep the screen as clean as possible and I think giving a toggle-able feature like this would be an ideal solution.

    Also agree. Maybe toggle-able by pressing H as well.

    Aside from a clutter perspective I like your suggestion. That could really be considered.



  • Team work must pay off. For me and my buddies, it is enough to win the round, knowing we worked well together. Unfortunately we are very alone with this attitude, you guys will know what I mean.

    Someone said it in another Thread. The forums seem fine, gentle people with a brain, mostly. But once on a server, the kidz will wreck havoc.

    So, some visible motivation for team work would be really helpful, gameplay-wise.
    Weapons for example should be unlocked by points, not kills. I alsways disliked this, it causes many ppl just to care about their next kill, rather than about the objective :|


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