Initiating an attack after being hit



  • So far in my 91 hours of play, one thing that has greatly annoyed me and something that further enhances the potency of spamming attacks; is how after hitting your opponent, they can still immediately initiate their own attack.

    To display a chain example:

    Duel starts > I move in and attack > Opponent parries and attacks back > I dodge out of the way, feint and quickly land in a strike > Opponent initiates an attack the moment my blow successfully hits him > His attack hits me before I have time to recover and parry.

    How is this balanced? Why is there not a brief stun when hit to prevent this?

    In essence, you can be punished for landing a proper hit on an enemy as sometimes they can initiate an attack before you have the mechanical time to activate a block or parry.

    In fact a very large quantity of hits dealt to me are due to this.



  • Same here. My understanding was that if you hit an enemy on their upswing it is supposed to interrupt them. It seems to work on me all the time yet lag or the crappy weapon I am trying to level does not seem to make it happen to them…they just keep spamming attack no matter if I hit them.

    Also the stamina usage needs to be drastically increased for people using 2H Axes, Swords and Hammers. I am tired of fighting nothing but Knight and Vanguards just running around swinging haymakers like a whirly bird.



  • I never saw this happen until the latest patch, so I think it’s a bug. It never happened in the beta.



  • There is a window where you have to attack to interrupt. If it passes this he will not be flinched. Need frame data to prove though.



  • This irritates me as well. I think flinch should apply both during windup and in idle stance - currently it only applies during windup. Flinch was originally a mechanic intended to negate the ability for Knights to trade hits and win - since Knights can kill any class in 1-2 hits, but only a Knight can kill another Knight in 2 hits (and very rarely a Bardiche or Brandistock with accurate headshots). As such, I don’t think it’s serving its purpose fully at the moment.



  • Agree, the only thing that killed me in 2H 1v1s against bad players was this thing. I used to play Claymore VG and sometimes still die to knight even completely outplaying them.

    Now I only play MAA and Archer, this is what I do to avoid trading damage:

    MAA: Joust if NS, combo if MS. Sometimes when fighting known M1 spammers I thrusting knife’m archer style just because.

    Archer: Thrusting Dagger, time my stabs to flinch their windups. If I flinch them I always attack again.
    If they go turn-based game with a shield (block, attack, block, attack), I try to circle them left and right, waiting a second or something to attack. They usually give up on waiting to get a parry, they go “fuck this little archer maggot” and attack getting flinched or I hit their shield going back to turn-based mode, sometimes I hit their unprotected side. When I successfully flank I just take some chances and try to spam stabs left and right while they panic, ALMOST always they die, but once in a while they manage to trade damage and I get fucked up.



  • @SlyGoat:

    This irritates me as well. I think flinch should apply both during windup and in idle stance - currently it only applies during windup. Flinch was originally a mechanic intended to negate the ability for Knights to trade hits and win - since Knights can kill any class in 1-2 hits, but only a Knight can kill another Knight in 2 hits (and very rarely a Bardiche or Brandistock with accurate headshots). As such, I don’t think it’s serving its purpose fully at the moment.

    I think being able to get a free hit just after taking one is retarded too, but if you make flinching possible on released attacks then 2Hs would get even worse than they currently are. Vanguards would be even more useless.



  • Its ok the way it is now….



  • @negocromn:

    @SlyGoat:

    This irritates me as well. I think flinch should apply both during windup and in idle stance - currently it only applies during windup. Flinch was originally a mechanic intended to negate the ability for Knights to trade hits and win - since Knights can kill any class in 1-2 hits, but only a Knight can kill another Knight in 2 hits (and very rarely a Bardiche or Brandistock with accurate headshots). As such, I don’t think it’s serving its purpose fully at the moment.

    I think being able to get a free hit just after taking one is retarded too, but if you make flinching possible on released attacks then 2Hs would get even worse than they currently are. Vanguards would be even more useless.

    I never said flinch should apply on released attacks - this happened in the alpha and it was just horrible. I said flinch should apply when idle; i.e. not performing any action but movement - in addition to during windup. If you take a hit, you can’t initiate an attack for .2 seconds; attacks already in release/recovery are not effected, and if you’re hit during release you can still go into a combo (but being hit in a combo windup would flinch as it currently does as well).



  • I have a section on this in my balance thread:
    http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5124

    If you’re hit with a slow attack, while idle, you can get a free/unblockable attack before their recovery frames are completed. Any time I’m hit by a zwei’s overhead, or if I’m hit early on in a horizontal attack’s animation, I can get a free claymore stab.

    Basically, players are being punished for doing everything right. With the way it is right now, 2h weapons aren’t used in competitive duels, and are only good for screwing around.

    Fixes:

    -Introduce hitstun when landing an attack against a player in an idle state. Length of hitstun is tied to speed of attack, as in all melee/fighting games. Slower, more powerful hits cause longer hitstun, faster attacks cause shorter hitstun. Players should NEVER get free attacks from simply being hit. At the same time, hitstun is tied to weapon speed so the attacker doesn’t get the equivalent of fighting game infinites, where the player being hit never has the chance to return an attack.

    -More knockback on-hit and on-block. Slower attacks cause more knockback. This not only fixes the problem, but gives slow weapons their own distinct, keepaway playstyle.



  • I found this annoying as well. If I got a hit one someone, I should be able to hit him again unless he blocks me. People are attacking right after getting hit, and turns the duel around in this ridiculous way.



  • I have to agree, it’s annoying.



  • I made a thread on this subject some time ago, it gone some attention…http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3904

    Very aggravating indeed



  • i would very much like to see flinch implemented to idle state as well. It seems to be a no brainer.



  • I’d also like to have a short hitstun, the length dependant on the speed of the attacker’s weapon. But right you can somewhat counter that “free” hit by comboing if you hit. That way with most weapon combinations you will be faster or at least trade the hit.



  • Agreed, it’s annoying as hell. I think sometimes you can hit the enemy right before their startup frames or something, because sometimes you hit them and their attack is pretty damn fast, even with slow weapons.

    The knockback or extra knockback on hit for larger weapons seems like a good idea as well. Hitting a fast weapon user with a larger weapon will give you some space and given some advantage for hitting them with the weapon, instead of them constantly being able to stay in your face and stun you with quick attacks (if idle hitstun is introduced).

    @Falc:

    I’d also like to have a short hitstun, the length dependant on the speed of the attacker’s weapon. But right you can somewhat counter that “free” hit by comboing if you hit. That way with most weapon combinations you will be faster or at least trade the hit.

    A retaliation hit seems to have a faster startup than the second attack of a lot of combos from what I’ve seen. I’ve been hit by 2H weapons when trying to combo the 1H club and the first attack hits. The club’s a pretty quick weapon, too. Not the fastest, but… should be fast enough to beat a slow 2-hander.



  • Combo attacks actually have significantly longer windups than normal attacks - but going into a combo skips recovery. Actually the fastest way to make 2 attacks in a row is to start a combo and then feint it and start a normal attack, because that allows you to skip recovery (which is extremely long for all weapons, honestly - probably too much so) and then only use a normal attack windup instead of a combo windup. This is being fixed soon, however, as it’s not an intended mechanic. I just wish combos were more worthwhile. If you get a hit on someone with a fast weapon and they don’t react properly you should be able to chain them down.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Combo attacks actually have significantly longer windups than normal attacks - but going into a combo skips recovery. Actually the fastest way to make 2 attacks in a row is to start a combo and then feint it and start a normal attack, because that allows you to skip recovery (which is extremely long for all weapons, honestly - probably too much so) and then only use a normal attack windup instead of a combo windup. This is being fixed soon, however, as it’s not an intended mechanic. I just wish combos were more worthwhile. If you get a hit on someone with a fast weapon and they don’t react properly you should be able to chain them down.

    my fav weapon in this game is daggers, and i get so much satisfaction in winning against knights ina duel with them. but a stratagy that seems more common now is to just take the dagger hit and go right into an attack. since every class sans archer can take a couple hits without much issue from the dagger, they just tank hits and use the current idel safty to break my attack.



  • @opticalshadow:

    @SlyGoat:

    Combo attacks actually have significantly longer windups than normal attacks - but going into a combo skips recovery. Actually the fastest way to make 2 attacks in a row is to start a combo and then feint it and start a normal attack, because that allows you to skip recovery (which is extremely long for all weapons, honestly - probably too much so) and then only use a normal attack windup instead of a combo windup. This is being fixed soon, however, as it’s not an intended mechanic. I just wish combos were more worthwhile. If you get a hit on someone with a fast weapon and they don’t react properly you should be able to chain them down.

    my fav weapon in this game is daggers, and i get so much satisfaction in winning against knights ina duel with them. but a stratagy that seems more common now is to just take the dagger hit and go right into an attack. since every class sans archer can take a couple hits without much issue from the dagger, they just tank hits and use the current idel safty to break my attack.

    honestly if i couldnt just attack u while u attacked me with the dagger i would always lose vs daggerwielders…daggers r pretty op in their own respect,while u can miss easely and need to facehug,they attack rly fast and block rly fast.they can even block a 2handed hammer easely.
    if it wasnt possible to just swing the hammer,the daggerwielder would be in great advantage cause he can just cancel or block the slow hammerattack with ease.



  • Damn this thread. I started paying more attention and realize just how often I get killed by a Knight just trading hits with me.


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