A question of honour



  • hello good Sirs,

    I thought it would go without saying but recently in LTS matches I noticed that the last surviving enemy won’t be granted a fair chance to die with honour. I’m talking about dueling the last one.
    In M&B we always did this and I played several matches in Chivalry where it was custom.

    I just had an argument with people suggesting I should join a duel server and that dueling wasn’t supposed to happen in LTS. I’m seeing it differently.

    The survivor is quite certain to die anyway. Why not have a little fun and give him a fair chance to prove himself?

    For me this is a part of the literal “chivalry”.
    What do you think?



  • I think you forget the influx of kids that don’t care about the game as such but just care about winning no matter what. Even if their win is stupidly in their favor, they just want that “fix”.

    There is no honor unless you join a clan or go to a server that keeps and eye on that kind of play.

    Sometimes you come across a person that’s willing to duel only to get interrupted, usually by some smack talking noob, wanting a cheap kill. :D Then I murder him :x



  • Basically, what it needs is a few players who are willing to play by the codex of honour and admonish the others not to attack the remaining one. Others will follow.
    If someone doesn’t it’s helpful to just punch them a little ^^

    I’m assuming you basically agree with me that there is room for a fair duel at the end of a LTS match even if the game mode isn’t explicitely made for it?



  • Sometimes I find people that respect the duel rules, and I’ve won more than a few games because they let me 1vs1 my way to victory. It’s pretty common really, but you just can’t expect it every time.



  • I have never seen this in a LTS server and didn’t know it was done but I will definetly start to do it ;)



  • @Siegbert:

    In M&B we always did this

    :o

    Anyway I disagree, sometimes the last person alive is someone who hasn’t helped his team at all or has been AFK. Doesn’t really deserve all the extra time in my opinion. Of course that doesn’t have to be the case, sometimes it’s just a good player that has won all of his fights. This brings up the next issue: don’t underestimate your enemy. If he is really skilled, you have the chance to lose your entire team due to dueling (have seen it happen in Warband), putting shame on your whole team.

    Personally I dislike getting dueled in LTS servers if I’m the last alive, because it is boring. It is much more challenging to try to fight off five enemies and live.

    Then there’s one of the key elements of team battles in my opinion: team play. Personal skill is nice, but not key. If you have let your whole team die, should you really be allowed the honour?

    Sometimes the situation does ask for duels and it is nice if they are performed well, but it should definitely not happen all the time.



  • It wasn’t uncommon in IRL for duels to erupt on the battlefield between rivals… and a back stab in such a situation would be highly dishonorable

    In this game though… everyone wants a free kill



  • But the only people who would even consider dueling were knights and every other class is a soldier who’s only concern is living and defeating their enemy.



  • @Kwal:

    @Siegbert:

    In M&B we always did this

    :o

    Anyway I disagree, sometimes the last person alive is someone who hasn’t helped his team at all or has been AFK. Doesn’t really deserve all the extra time in my opinion. Of course that doesn’t have to be the case, sometimes it’s just a good player that has won all of his fights. This brings up the next issue: don’t underestimate your enemy. If he is really skilled, you have the chance to lose your entire team due to dueling (have seen it happen in Warband), putting shame on your whole team.

    Personally I dislike getting dueled in LTS servers if I’m the last alive, because it is boring. It is much more challenging to try to fight off five enemies and live.

    Then there’s one of the key elements of team battles in my opinion: team play. Personal skill is nice, but not key. If you have let your whole team die, should you really be allowed the honour?

    Sometimes the situation does ask for duels and it is nice if they are performed well, but it should definitely not happen all the time.

    ^this. Although it was common in Warband, it happened too much that a player, which was extremely skilled when it came to 1v1, but was absolutely horrible when it came to teamplay, still managed to get the victory for his team, all by himself. The game should encourage teamplay and coordination, not lone wolf play.

    A while ago I actually managed to win a 5v1, although those 5 players didn’t appear to fully comprehend the mechanism of blocking, it still gave one of the most awesome feelings I had so far in Chivalry to claim the victory for my team like that.



  • You say its honor to let them duel but they could lose the game if they let you 1v1 to victory. The game rules are last team standing and its a team game not a show of single players ability to best an entire team. Granted if they let you then that is nice of them but its not how the game mode is made to be played.

    I have played matches where I used there lust to earn the last kill against them and beat them 3v1 then another 2v1 and won the round for our team.



  • @Kwal:

    @Siegbert:

    In M&B we always did this

    :o

    Ya, maybe not always. But it was definitely a common thing, at least if clans were involved.

    he is really skilled, you have the chance to lose your entire team due to dueling (have seen it happen in Warband), putting shame on your whole team.

    Afterall it’s at your discretion to do so or not. If the player is Jamie Lannister I wouldn’t suggest to duel him until everyone of your team is dead.

    Personally I dislike getting dueled in LTS servers if I’m the last alive, because it is boring. It is much more challenging to try to fight off five enemies and live.

    Well if that’s how you feel you can always deny the offer. If I’m surrounded by 5 enemies I wouldn’t see any chance of getting out alive. I’d prefer to take them one by one.

    Then there’s one of the key elements of team battles in my opinion: team play. Personal skill is nice, but not key. If you have let your whole team die, should you really be allowed the honour?

    Who says I don’t care about my team? Sometimes I just happen to stay alive by chance. You dishonour yourself by beating up someone who’s basically lying on the ground ^^



  • @Siegbert:

    Why not have a little fun and give him a fair chance to prove himself?

    Wars are won by the living. Not the chivalrous dead.

    I can name you 25 great generals throughout history that became great, specifically because they never marched their men into fair fights. They spent every ounce of their effort to make sure that their armies arrived at a battlefield with conditions specifically unbalanced in their favor. How many people do you know that are famous for winning fair “honorable” fights?

    On a more practical note… the reason is because of incentives. The game rewards team wins and individual kill records. It does not reward “honorable” or “fair” fights. In order for you to get what you are asking about, the game design needs to be modified to reward people for stepping back, and allowing 1v1 duels to occur uninterrupted.



  • @kent1146:

    Wars are won by the living. Not the chivalrous dead.

    I can name you 25 great generals throughout history that became great, specifically because they never marched their men into fair fights. They spent every ounce of their effort to make sure that their armies arrived at a battlefield with conditions specifically unbalanced in their favor. How many people do you know that are famous for winning fair “honorable” fights?

    I’m actually not talking about winning or losing conditions. One team has basically lost already. It’s about how the last one dies.
    I find it foul when several bullies beat up one single guy.

    Look at it that way:
    your army has been defeated and you’re the only survivor. You’re a POW now, maybe you’d just be executed but your captor offers you the chance to regain your honor in a fair duel.
    It’s just about nice gestures and the image of chivalrous men who see each others as equals. I like that a game like this offers room for such a behaviour and isn’t only about winning or losing alone.

    On a more practical note… the reason is because of incentives. The game rewards team wins and individual kill records. It does not reward “honorable” or “fair” fights. In order for you to get what you are asking about, the game design needs to be modified to reward people for stepping back, and allowing 1v1 duels to occur uninterrupted.

    The gameplay is totally fine. I’m talking about a chivalrous codex of honour and the way such a behaviour makes you feel. I find it quite satisfying.



  • @Siegbert:

    I’m actually not talking about winning or losing conditions. One team has basically lost already. It’s about how the last one dies.
    I find it foul when several bullies beat up one single guy.

    Look at it that way:
    your army has been defeated and you’re the only survivor. You’re a POW now, maybe you’d just be executed but your captor offers you the chance to regain your honor in a fair duel.
    It’s just about nice gestures and the image of chivalrous men who see each others as equals. I like that a game like this offers room for such a behaviour and isn’t only about winning or losing alone.

    In real life no one wants to die and they would just let you rot but in the case you bring up you have a weapon draw out are still considered a threat.

    If I had just came home to have our wife’s rapped and children held captive I wouldn’t take any prisoners. Infact I would take as many of those mens lifes in the most horrible ways I could think of.



  • @kent1146:

    On a more practical note… the reason is because of incentives. The game rewards team wins and individual kill records.

    And this is why there should not be unlocks based on kill counts. People will tend to focus on getting their kills to get their next weapon over having some fun



  • If there was an lts tournament for thousands in cash, I would love to see how many teams would role play this “honor” garbage.

    Also, remember all those “honor” ending highlights from CS, COD, and Halo tournaments?

    Talking about honor in a game built from the start as a competitive platform.



  • @gslashg:

    In real life no one wants to die and they would just let you rot but in the case you bring up you have a weapon draw out are still considered a threat.

    If I had just came home to have our wife’s rapped and children held captive I wouldn’t take any prisoners. Infact I would take as many of those mens lifes in the most horrible ways I could think of.

    I’m not talking about real wars or historical correctness at all. Maybe there’s a kind of misunderstanding.
    I’m trying to paint a picture of chivalrous nobleman whose greatest thing in life is to find glory on the battlefield. They don’t have families to care about ;P
    I have the feeling that this is what Torn Banner wants us to feel when playing their game.



  • When I play LTS, I fight with my teammates as we struggle together! I like when people say “how come you don’t do 1 v 1 duels at the end”. I say we WIN as a team, and lose as a TEAM. We worked to get it to a 4 vs 1. So we deserve to watch the piggy squeal as we cut it down! :berz:



  • @Siegbert:

    I’m trying to paint a picture of chivalrous nobleman whose greatest thing in life is to find glory on the battlefield. They don’t have families to care about ;P
    I have the feeling that this is what Torn Banner wants us to feel when playing their game.

    You mean those chivalrous noblemen who pillage a village of filthy peasants? Or is it those who drive a wagon full off diseases corpses toward a water supply and then execute entire royal families, children and all?



  • @acrh2:

    @Siegbert:

    I’m trying to paint a picture of chivalrous nobleman whose greatest thing in life is to find glory on the battlefield. They don’t have families to care about ;P
    I have the feeling that this is what Torn Banner wants us to feel when playing their game.

    You mean those chivalrous noblemen who pillage a village of filthy peasants? Or is it those who drive a wagon full off diseases corpses toward a water supply and then execute entire royal families, children and all?

    good point ;P

    But still, badass fighters could develop respect of each other and would prefer to test their skills in duels rather than having their whole army murder POWs.


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