Kinetic Force vs Weapon mass



  • How, by all the gods, can a dagger stop a full on swing from a maul? I have been a practitioner of HEMA for like 15 years now and can tell you this is infuriating. I certainly don’t expect a game to be a simulation of real swordsmanship, but I think it would be awesome if a weapon’s mass came into play when parring a blow. This would fix alot of the Spam-at-arms and archer melee shenanigans that people are complaining about.



  • That would make larger weapons OP, since you couldn’t really have a fair duel against them with smaller weapons. And what in the hell, in real life can stop a maul? Even using a shield would break your arm. I think it was a wise decision to leave out such things.



  • You may have the ultimate dagger with the magic aura that blocks everything on collision. :D .
    Maybe you have a super powerful hand that keeps the dagger on position to block the maul and the dagger is made by a super durable material.
    Who knows what magic is hidden behind all this :o



  • Alas Hannibal.Lictor, such is the way of multiplayer video games.
    The demands of equality are so avid that the basic facts of both history and physics are readily compromised to appease the masses of any possible hint of disparity. :(

    I for one would be content if game developers of this genre just got the weapon speed of the longsword(s) correct so it would simulate something closer to a real longsword and not some unwieldy slag of rebar. ;)



  • In my opinion it’s more realistic to block a hammer with a dagger than to take an arrow to the face and live through it.



  • @Chuckdatass:

    That would make larger weapons OP, since you couldn’t really have a fair duel against them with smaller weapons. And what in the hell, in real life can stop a maul? Even using a shield would break your arm. I think it was a wise decision to leave out such things.

    But the advantage of being an agile/quick-dodging or projectile shooting class is that you can avoid being in the path of a weapon like the maul. Being able to flawlessly parry it with a dagger weapon is a bit too much, I’d expect a little damage or at least some sort of stun/knockback.



  • @AngryDave:

    @Chuckdatass:

    That would make larger weapons OP, since you couldn’t really have a fair duel against them with smaller weapons. And what in the hell, in real life can stop a maul? Even using a shield would break your arm. I think it was a wise decision to leave out such things.

    But the advantage of being an agile/quick-dodging or projectile shooting class is that you can avoid being in the path of a weapon like the maul. Being able to flawlessly parry it with a dagger weapon is a bit too much, I’d expect a little damage or at least some sort of stun/knockback.

    I agree with what you say, but I have mixed feelings. On one had I think like you, yes, archers already have ranged attacks and they shouldn’t let anyone hostile reach them in the first place, and they can also rely on footwork to avoid. I saw this archer once who ducked under some LMB-spammers weapon, jumped over it, ducked under it, and LMB-spammed him back in the face killing him. It’s perfectly possible to avoid without blocking if you have the skills for it. And the MaA, how are they supposed to be unable to defend without blocking if they can easily teleport in and out of range, they even have a shield.

    But on the other hand, if newcomers are bad players playing those classes see that they’ll berserk and say it’s not fair because they don’t have enough skills to avoid being hit. So the developers will never risk pissing off that many people for the sake of better gameplay.



  • @Albastard:

    In my opinion it’s more realistic to block a hammer with a dagger than to take an arrow to the face and live through it.

    Why do you compare apples with cherries??! (Though you are right :P )

    OP is very right. It annoys me that a little archer´s dagger can parry my Zweihänder overhead strike. It IS totally unrealistic. Daggers should not be able to parry without heavy consequences like huge loss of stamina, getting staggered and losing some health.

    Parrying with a dagger must be an emergency solution - not a common tactic.

    Why take them anyway?
    Grab a short sword and be happy - or take a dagger and live die with the consequences…



  • Isn’t it possible to make the parry window smaller when the difference between the player’s weapon and the enemy’s weapon is larger? It makes sense that a longer sword would parry things earlier whereas something that is really light could only parry things at a very precise moment.



  • @William:

    @Albastard:

    In my opinion it’s more realistic to block a hammer with a dagger than to take an arrow to the face and live through it.

    Why do you compare apples with cherries??! (Though you are right :P )

    OP is very right. It annoys me that a little archer´s dagger can parry my Zweihänder overhead strike. It IS totally unrealistic. Daggers should not be able to parry without heavy consequences like huge loss of stamina, getting staggered and losing some health.

    Parrying with a dagger must be an emergency solution - not a common tactic.

    Why take them anyway?
    Grab a short sword and be happy - or take a dagger and live die with the consequences…

    This world is like lord of the rings. However mechanics work, that is how it is in this world. Good reason to set a game in a fantasy world like Chivalry :))



  • Lord of the Rings? Chivalry is nothing like LotR, maybe many ppl would like that, but how can you claim this?

    The only thing I see LotR has in common with Chivalry… it does not take place “here”.
    But that´s it.
    So there are no reasons to spit on realism and the laws of physics, are there? ;)



  • Tibberius contemplated this in a late beta match I was in once. We all pretty much agreed it was bogus being able to block the heaviest weapons with knives, so maybe it’ll get changed soon.

    I agree that it seems strange. Even pseudo-fantasy worlds need laws and limits to maintain any kind of believability.



  • @William:

    Lord of the Rings? Chivalry is nothing like LotR, maybe many ppl would like that, but how can you claim this?

    The only thing I see LotR has in common with Chivalry… it does not take place “here”.
    But that´s it.
    So there are no reasons to spit on realism and the laws of physics, are there? ;)

    The thing they have in common is they both don’t exist. So however they are presented to you, is how they are. So trying to apply our physic to their world doesn’t make sense. That is what I mean. Reading Comprehension FTW.



  • The problem is, daggers are already terrible weapons even compared to the other secondaries. And they do take a huge hit to stamina when parrying a heavy weapon; up to 1/3 your stamina bar. Granted there is very little penalty for being out of stamina unless you’re a Man-at-Arms.



  • @Chuckdatass:

    @William:

    Lord of the Rings? Chivalry is nothing like LotR, maybe many ppl would like that, but how can you claim this?

    The only thing I see LotR has in common with Chivalry… it does not take place “here”.
    But that´s it.
    So there are no reasons to spit on realism and the laws of physics, are there? ;)

    The thing they have in common is they both don’t exist. So however they are presented to you, is how they are. So trying to apply our physic to their world doesn’t make sense. That is what I mean. Reading Comprehension FTW.

    What a cheap excuse for a dagger being able to block a heavy weapon. And on top its wrong. We see the game worlds physics with every swing of a sword… it is not different at all. You didn´t think that through…

    EDIT:

    WHAT IS CHIVALRY: MEDIEVAL WARFARE?

    CHIVALRY: Medieval Warfare is a first-person slasher with a focus on multi-player. Featuring competitive online combat that seeks to capture the experience of truly being on a medieval battlefield. We’ve drawn our inspiration from the intensity and epicness of swordfighting movies such as 300, Gladiator and Braveheart and we want to bring that experience to the hands of a gamer.

    The game is skill-based and controls like a FPS, but instead of guns and grenades, players are given swords, shields, maces, battleaxes and longbows. Set in a fictional yet gritty and realistic world, players will fight in fast paced online battles besieging castles, raiding medieval villages and fighting for glory in the arena with up to 32 players.

    Source: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1711512107/chivalry-medieval-warfare?ref=search#WhenWillTheBetaBegi



  • Thinking purely in terms of gameplay, I would agree with the suggestion that heavy weapons should be more difficult to block (in terms of timing or accuracy, or both) with smaller weapons. This would mean that only skilled players would get away with this trickery.

    But then again, IMO, anything that increases the potential for skilful play is good to add, even if it makes the game much harder for newer players.

    Also, I don’t think any situation that can be created by simply pressing a mouse button should be “un-winnable” due to your class type. Players who know what they are doing should be able to beat players who can only slash spam, even if they are severely disadvantaged.



  • Hit an archer and he parries, then with a big weapon, you would drain his stamina within a few its



  • Word, they realy need to fix the mass e.g.

    And dat people are saying “ohh it will make em OP” well watch out for the 2h weapons then, all classes are good at their thing, its like with spam-at-arms jesus christ on them? ,
    Nah but someone wrote “if u have a sheild u would break your arm” well not realy it deppends if u got an armor on u or not.

    But yeah blocking with a dagger on a maul attack should atleast make some damage on the blocker(1h weapons/dosent realy mather wich)



  • I totally agree that blocking two-handed weapons with small one-handed weapons is a bit ridiculous.
    An overhead attack with a maul would not be blockable with an in comparison teeny weeny butterknife.

    In my opinion it’d not be gamebreaking if people who block with small onehanded weapons or secondary weapons receive a small amount of damage based on the two-handed weapon that’s being used on them.

    I do mean SMALL amount of damage. People using twohanded weapons should not suddenly gain the ability to utterly disintegrate archers who are in melee range.



  • @William:

    WHAT IS CHIVALRY: MEDIEVAL WARFARE?

    CHIVALRY: Medieval Warfare is a first-person slasher with a focus on multi-player. Featuring competitive online combat that seeks to capture the experience of truly being on a medieval battlefield. We’ve drawn our inspiration from the intensity and epicness of swordfighting movies such as 300, Gladiator and Braveheart and we want to bring that experience to the hands of a gamer.

    The game is skill-based and controls like a FPS, but instead of guns and grenades, players are given swords, shields, maces, battleaxes and longbows.
    Set in a fictional yet gritty and realistic world, players will fight in fast paced online battles besieging castles, raiding medieval villages and fighting for glory in the arena with up to 32 players.

    Source:
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/171 … arfare?ref
    =search#WhenWillTheBetaBegi

    Lol thanks for posting this William Godfrey because I’m STILL laughing at the pretentiousness of Steve’s assertions. Truly if that was Mr. Piggott’s intention then he would have been better inspired and informed if he watched some of the Battle of the Nations (BOTN) movies available on YouTube or even the short movie I linked to below he might have then gotten correct the mobility and speed possible when wearing armour as well as the genuine weapon speeds of polearms and other two handed weapons. ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6IL2giKNN8


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