Unblockable vanguard charge



  • I see lots of complaints that the vanguard is shit in high level play.

    What would happen if the charge attack was unblockable? I find it kind of easy to avoid the charge if I have a read on the vanguard anyway. Of course this change would have to include the charge being interrupted if the vanguard turned too fast (I’m thinking the charge has to be very straight to avoid silly running in circles behaviour to charge up the charge).

    I think this would make the vanguard fearsome and useful but still not dominant as the MAA could dodge and counter it and the knight uh… eat it in the face.

    Another change that would have to complement this would be that 2h-swords would either stab or do an overhand with their charge instead of the sweep so it doesn’t become a solution versus any group of enemies ever.



  • The Vanguard sprint attack needs to be scary, currently it’s not. A Vanguard’s sprint attack should remove about 80-90% of your stamina bar when you block one so that you can’t then combo or kick or perform another stamina based action unless you take a step back. You should be trying to evade them, not block them. The Vanguard is the ‘offensive class’, so you should feel their full wrath when you fall for their sprint attack. The damage numbers on some weapons do need to be tweaked slightly though, as some sprint attacks are just pure bad when you get hit by one, and if you get hit by one without evading or blocking, you should definitely feel pain. Don’t block > Get hurt, Parry/Block > Lose a lot of stamina, Evade > Best counter IMO.



  • when you hit you will get a bonus to damage enemy after that (if he block attack) loses balance after blow for long

    I think it’s enough …. but to make it more useful should be possible to fake the jump … so you have a chance to surprise the enemy



  • I think the problem with such a huge penalty for blocking is it’s often impossible to evade an enemy who’s charging you with a sword. You can’t run away, they’ll always run faster; unless you’re a MaA there’s no chance you’ll sidestep a point blank sweep from even a claymore because of how huge the arc is.

    Of course, I don’t really like the sweeping slash charge attacks anyway. Perhaps if only the Greatsword did a sweep-charge; the Zweihander could instead do a devastating overhead and the claymore a stab.



  • @Helgeran:

    I see lots of complaints that the vanguard is shit in high level play.

    I think the complaints are from people who haven’t seen me use Vanguard, cause at my level of play I do ridiculously well.

    Unblockable charge attack would just make the game easier than it already is, I can charge attack in duels, I count 10 seconds in my head and bang my charge attack is ready, before my hand even raises.

    Sure most of my charge attacks are blocked, but it clears away a group of people to allow me to engage 1 at a time. I mostly use it to kill archers though.

    I LOVE THE IDEA OF THE STAMINA DRAIN! DO IT DO IT DO IT!! I’ll have such an edge against you pesky knights and your turtle crap!



  • It’d be nice if the charge would do at least a small amount of damage when it’s blocked, or taking half the target’s stamina away.
    Buuuut I’m not too bothered as long as I can poke my halberd at people’s crotches.



  • I’m a huge fan and advocate of the ‘Vanguard’ and love the tools he has available to murder. However I do agree that I’m finding the ‘leap attack’ more and more situational, if not unnecessary given a great deal of scenarios, where the ‘great range of reach and overhead’ strikes, will do a better job.

    I am still open to see improvements, as of now I’m very content with vanguard, and that using his distance to his advantage to win fights, however the fact that his ‘major ability’ is very situational, and often ‘high risk’ as it’s easy to dodge just makes us re-consider why even have this, when it’s virtually countered and so situational when I can easily do my normal attacks?



  • @Salesgun4Hire:

    @Helgeran:

    I see lots of complaints that the vanguard is shit in high level play.

    I think the complaints are from people who haven’t seen me use Vanguard, cause at my level of play

    Uh-huh. Well whatever you believe about your alleged skills, vanguard still is the weakest link and needs a boost. An unblockable wouldn’t be wise with the current sweeping arc with swords, as others have said. I think the swords should only have a small cone of attack via stab or overhead anyway, as it seems improbable for forward momentum to channel into a horizontal slash as it does currently, without causing the vanguard to fall over.

    An unblockable or block conferring great penalty would be appropriate, but perhaps we should wait to see what they do with the stamina system first? The devs are looking at it, are they not?



  • Draining most of the enemies stamina sounds good to me. For me (as an archer) it already takes like 80% of my stamina to block a charge attack which leaves me with one additional attack to be blocked before I’m screwed. It feels pretty balanced and I think it should be that way for the other classes too.
    E.g. a knight (considering he has more stamina) could lose about 50% and a maA 70% or 80% as well since he can also dodge it.
    Combine this with a more punishing stamina system like lots of ppl would like to see it and the vanguard charge will be fearsome enough, yet not an op oneshot-autowin attack.
    If it became unblockable, a vanguard could just oneshot like 50% of his targets or more and that’s hopefully not the way this game is meant to be played-



  • @Martin:

    The Vanguard sprint attack needs to be scary, currently it’s not. A Vanguard’s sprint attack should remove about 80-90% of your stamina bar when you block one so that you can’t then combo or kick or perform another stamina based action unless you take a step back.

    No No and NO!!!

    Charge - is a way to ENGAGE enemy… and then slash, tear apart.

    Where the hell did you see charging and retreating knight with as heavy armour as Vanguard has?
    MAA - he jumps and jumps back… - that’s your fastcharging attack. Play MAA and be happy. 2hits all but the knights…

    If I was fighting Vanguard like you are says - he would die fast.



  • @BoBBer:

    @Martin:

    The Vanguard sprint attack needs to be scary, currently it’s not. A Vanguard’s sprint attack should remove about 80-90% of your stamina bar when you block one so that you can’t then combo or kick or perform another stamina based action unless you take a step back.

    No No and NO!!!

    Charge - is a way to ENGAGE enemy… and then slash, tear apart.

    Where the hell did you see charging and retreating knight with as heavy armour as Vanguard has?
    MAA - he jumps and jumps back… - that’s your fastcharging attack. Play MAA and be happy. 2hits all but the knights…

    If I was fighting Vanguard like you are says - he would die fast.

    I think you’re confused. What I’m saying is remove it from the person who blocked, not from the Charger, otherwise that would be just silly.



  • @Martin:

    @BoBBer:

    @Martin:

    The Vanguard sprint attack needs to be scary, currently it’s not. A Vanguard’s sprint attack should remove about 80-90% of your stamina bar when you block one so that you can’t then combo or kick or perform another stamina based action unless you take a step back.

    No No and NO!!!

    Charge - is a way to ENGAGE enemy… and then slash, tear apart.

    Where the hell did you see charging and retreating knight with as heavy armour as Vanguard has?
    MAA - he jumps and jumps back… - that’s your fastcharging attack. Play MAA and be happy. 2hits all but the knights…

    If I was fighting Vanguard like you are says - he would die fast.

    I think you’re confused. What I’m saying is remove it from the person who blocked, not from the Charger, otherwise that would be just silly.

    Ok sorry.
    And that’s completely unreal.



  • I’m just bumping this because I don’t think this idea is done being discussed. Imo just draining all stamina from someone isn’t good enough. With unblockable charge the charge can be used to zone people by forcing them back by the very threat of a vanguard. Also because of the stickiness in this game (tractor beam chase mechanic) the proper way to counter this would be either ranged weapons taking the vanguard out or a long melee weapon (making vanguards their own counter-measure just like archers are their own counter-measure).



  • well lets face this from dueling mode that is coming up or just dueling servers.

    In a duel ur put rather close, far enough to do one shot with any archer mainweapon but not enough to charge up the vanguards charge attack. But the other classes have still their main abilitys. MaA has his dodge still, Knight his heavy armour and brutal weaponry. Archer can perform one shot like i said and also have their passive ability of 50 more dmg on the back.

    And the vanguard is again the idiot since he can take as much hits as other classes and be the second slowest class in the game.Not really balanced i say since u cannot perform the charge attack that often but the others have almost mainly passive skills. I mean htere is even a random evade button for those special minded ppl out there.

    And this is sposed to be balanced? i dunno if ur right.

    I say the charge attack is a fine idea but it doesnt work in the state of the game at the moment. Since htere is not thaaaaat much teamplay nor ppl trying formations or something the charge becomes useless, even if it would be fixed having one class without any “special abillitys” at all.

    The only thing which im really suprised about is that we vanguards have a fine dmg output and alot of speed in attacks which i just have to mention to make it fair.



  • I never use the charge attack, just because it’s completely useless. However, it shouldn’t be unblockable but it should do more damage and more knockback.



  • Although i partialy with the op the changes you and others are suggesting are a little over the top, because although the charge attack is the vanguards main advantage as it is his special ability, like maa’s dodge, it should have a little more power then what it is at the momment which is pretty much a slightly higher damage horizontal swing thats incredibly easy to predict. I guess a small increase in stamina consumption if the enemy blocks it could be something to consider, but its not as if its useless, have you ever tried a charge with a 2h sword against 4 unsuspecting enemies? its really satisfying getting that many kills with one swing :)



  • as if it would happen within 10 rounds just once that u appear behind 4 unaware enemys …. srlsy on what servers are u playing? thats not a valid answer. at all


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