LIMIT FEINTS to MAKE SKILL not LUCK



  • There needs to be a limit on how many fakes you can do, I think 1 feint then attack is more than enough to get through someones guard with skill, and not relying on feints entirely like most people have begun to do.

    Other strategies that require skill and variety in game play are empty jumping to pretend an overhead, or missing your first swing to counter with your second attack.

    Also being able to fake between different attacks to use a different attack to the feint you just did, makes certain attacks like stabs ambiguous and almost impossible to react to in close up combat.

    (For other games) In the competitive scene people exploit ambiguous attacks on occasion to open up someones turtle defense, but they mix it up with regular attacks, they don’t solely rely on it as much as this game, it really has become a fake to win game in the duelling arena.

    Feints take any newb player into the realm of being able to compete with a high level player, to me, thats a game breaker.

    Mostly because there is no real learning curve, all you gotta do is out fake your opponent and you get a free hit, do it twice and you will most likely win the duel.

    I propose that Feinting become one or all of the following:

    Limited to one fake between an attack or parry.
    Remove the ability to mix-up attacks between feints.
    Reduce the damage caused on an attack after feinting (to do this it would be reduced damage for a certain amount of time ie 1 second after a feint, attack damage is halved).

    Also a short note on a few other game breakers!!

    YOU SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ADJUST YOUR AIM ON A STAB!! It is ridiculous, you swing you miss you pay the price IMO, it is too easy for people to re-adjust their aim so that it connects or connects late.

    GETTING HIT SHOULD PUT YOU AT NEGATIVE ADVANTAGE ON ANY FOLLOW UP ATtACK!, Sick of getting countered during my counter WTH! You should be stunned from getting hit preventing you from attacking for at least the time it takes for me to recover from my counter attack. Blocking afterwards to block a two hit combo is fine, but being able to attack is JUST STUPIOD,



  • one feint? NO

    but i freaking dont like to that when you hit somone he still can counter you… its just stupid and unbalanced



  • @marazis:

    one feint? NO

    but i freaking dont like to that when you hit somone he still can counter you… its just stupid and unbalanced

    I think anything more than one feint in one sequence looks and feels stupid, sure u get the hit on a good player that tries to parry early so they can counter, but it just breaks the gameplay, needs to have rhythm to it, the randomness of a fakespert is not really skill, its just luck.

    The only real counters for fakesperts are attacking first… if you try kick a decent player you will most likely get stabbed out of your kick range.



  • Feinting is fine as it it IMO.



  • By the way, you can adjust aim on a thrust in real life.

    Agreed on the flinching while idle. The devs have already said they’d look ino it. Or was that a mod? They know about it though. I’m hoping it’ll get fixed this patch.



  • yea I agree that not being able to flinch idle player is just stupid and messes up the hole attack / counterattack system… Also I’m not sure if a duel should be about 2 ppl circeling each other constantly feinting…I guess a limit to this of any kind wouldn’t hurt. (perhaps some decent stamina costs,at least or w/e). About the thrust, well I noticed it’s very hard - if not impossible- to sidestep dodge, on the other hand, I don’t want it to be an auto-miss. Perhaps they could slow down mouse sensity and/or movementspeed during a thrust like it happens when your bow is drawn.

    @manic:

    By the way, you can adjust aim on a thrust in real life.

    Agreed on the flinching while idle. The devs have already said they’d look ino it. Or was that a mod? They know about it though. I’m hoping it’ll get fixed this patch.

    and no, you can’t thrust with full force / speed and then adjust it “midair” or even afterwards like you can in this game.



  • NO NO NO and NO.

    How even possible to think that way?
    What? Luck? Which luck? Just stab him if he feins always… If you can not - you suck, man… nothing gonna change it!

    Or I would ask to disable more than 2 slashes in a row… why? Just I dont like stupid slashers (many - many people play LMBonly style).
    That’s as delirious as topic is.



  • @BoBBer:

    NO NO NO and NO.

    How even possible to think that way?
    What? Luck? Which luck? Just stab him if he feins always… If you can not - you suck, man… nothing gonna change it!

    Or I would ask to disable more than 2 slashes in a row… why? Just I dont like stupid slashers (many - many people play LMBonly style).
    That’s as delirious as topic is.

    If you find dodging Slashing difficult, then your really the mediocre player in this conversation losing all credit to your post.



  • Terrible idea, a good player can tell between a feint and an actual attack. If they are constantly feinting, go in for a kill.



  • @xUncleOwenx:

    Terrible idea, a good player can tell between a feint and an actual attack. If they are constantly feinting, go in for a kill.

    Are you a good player?



  • @Salesgun4Hire:

    @BoBBer:

    NO NO NO and NO.

    How even possible to think that way?
    What? Luck? Which luck? Just stab him if he feins always… If you can not - you suck, man… nothing gonna change it!

    Or I would ask to disable more than 2 slashes in a row… why? Just I dont like stupid slashers (many - many people play LMBonly style).
    That’s as delirious as topic is.

    If you find dodging Slashing difficult, then your really the mediocre player in this conversation losing all credit to your post.

    It is posts like this that are killing the community. Like I said. The game was just released, and the community has already down graded into Call of Duty style insults.

    Evidently there is some feint exploit currently out. It needs to be addressed. But the game is also very buggy and needs some balancing, and fixing too. Like more stamina used for jumping (I am talking almost the whole bar, high risk, high reward), hit boxes, weapons glitching through shields and parries, etc.



  • Jump Overhead is not even effective to warrant a full stamina bar usage.



  • A lot of things need to be fixed about feints, the animations aren’t consistent with some weapons, being able to combo feint, etc

    Also aiming during stab windup is fine, having your stab hit like a lightsaber is not (hitting after release and mousedragging it) The neutral stance hit into near unblockable counter is also really dumb.



  • No, no, no, no ,no……

    NO.



  • Thanks for making this thread! I planned to do the same. =)

    What you say is correct. The option to spam feints increases the luck factor a lot and also makes the battles af mass feinters pretty ugly. It really should be limited.

    Terrible idea, a good player can tell between a feint and an actual attack.

    Yeah, i know what u mean. The important thing is not to block on assumption but to really react fast after seeing if it’s a feint or a real strike BUT this only goes for single feints with weapons that are not ultrafast. In these cases u cant react that fast. When someone spams the feint he can hold the weapon in mid air right before the point it would touch the opponent and in this case the defending player has to GUESS if its a feint or not. He cant wait to make sure, because it would already be over then (at least with some weapons like with a holded short sword stab) It also looks too unnatural and stupid to predict it. So what can you do about that?

    If they are constantly feinting, go in for a kill.

    Yeah, thats half true but if they stop feinting in that moment and actually strike, its over for you. But then again its basicly the only option you have… And thats why battles against massfeinters are either a sure lose for u or battles mainly based on luck. When I faced massfeinters in the last days I also fought depending on my luck (Before that i always lost against them). If I close in, they often go back while starting the next feints . Then i just go on and stab, hoping they keep feinting. Like that i beat the mass feinting players that normally rule over duel servers with 0 or only few deaths. But of course I only win sometimes when i have more luck then they had and thats no fun at all…

    I guess the most ppl that are defending these senseless feintspams are those who either want to keep using them or those who didnt really notice the problem so far. (Fortunately not that many ppl play like that so far but I’m afraid that will change…)

    The most realistic and best solution imo would be to just make it impossible to feint 2 or more times after another. I mean, I’m pretty sure in the real medieval times, nobody fought making a half strike and then waiting till the enemy is close to make the other half of the strike (thats how it mostly looks when people spam Q)
    The strike would have no strength then.

    Regarding that other topic:

    You should be stunned from getting hit preventing you from attacking for at least the time it takes for me to recover from my counter attack. Blocking afterwards to block a two hit combo is fine, but being able to attack is JUST STUPIOD,

    You can only still attack after being striked if you were in the endphase of your attack and thats realistic. It would be an unfair disadvantage for ppl with slow weapons if their attacks could be canceled any time so I think that aspect should stay as it is. If you dont want to be striked back u have to hit during the early attack phase.



  • I guess I haven’t run into any feint spammers, but where I am thinking is that you can’t play their game. By doing that they re trying to make you be on the defensive. Any time they go into spamming swing an attack and make them block, so their spamming is interrupted. If they want to get anywhere, they can’t spam.



  • @UncleOwen

    Yeah, thats what i described in my post but then its a battle mainly based on luck because if their last action wasnt a feint but an attack it mostly hits u before your hit goes trough. In the other case its your hit.



  • I think I see what you’re saying.



  • @Salesgun4Hire:

    There needs to be a limit on how many fakes you can do, I think 1 feint then attack is more than enough to get through someones guard with skill, and not relying on feints entirely like most people have begun to do.

    Other strategies that require skill and variety in game play are empty jumping to pretend an overhead, or missing your first swing to counter with your second attack.

    Also being able to fake between different attacks to use a different attack to the feint you just did, makes certain attacks like stabs ambiguous and almost impossible to react to in close up combat.

    (For other games) In the competitive scene people exploit ambiguous attacks on occasion to open up someones turtle defense, but they mix it up with regular attacks, they don’t solely rely on it as much as this game, it really has become a fake to win game in the duelling arena.

    Feints take any newb player into the realm of being able to compete with a high level player, to me, thats a game breaker.

    Mostly because there is no real learning curve, all you gotta do is out fake your opponent and you get a free hit, do it twice and you will most likely win the duel.

    I propose that Feinting become one or all of the following:

    Limited to one fake between an attack or parry.
    Remove the ability to mix-up attacks between feints.
    Reduce the damage caused on an attack after feinting (to do this it would be reduced damage for a certain amount of time ie 1 second after a feint, attack damage is halved).

    Also a short note on a few other game breakers!!

    YOU SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ADJUST YOUR AIM ON A STAB!! It is ridiculous, you swing you miss you pay the price IMO, it is too easy for people to re-adjust their aim so that it connects or connects late.

    As a fencer in foil, epee and saber, in real life, it is very easy to adjust your aim with a stab and currently it has been nerfed in game if you try to turn and stab as the turning speed is dramatically reduced because of that tactic being used in AOC quite effectively. To change direction of a stab is far more easier than a slash or even an overhead as the momentum build up is much more difficult to change in a power swing or overhead.

    GETTING HIT SHOULD PUT YOU AT NEGATIVE ADVANTAGE ON ANY FOLLOW UP ATtACK!, Sick of getting countered during my counter WTH! You should be stunned from getting hit preventing you from attacking for at least the time it takes for me to recover from my counter attack. Blocking afterwards to block a two hit combo is fine, but being able to attack is JUST STUPIOD,

    What you are missing here is the fact that many attacks are actually nullified if parried. This is specially frustrating when a very small weapon parries a large heavy weapon and the receive no damage. This is very true with archers where they get a stam loss but not damage against a heavy weapon. There should be mutual damage if both attacks hit simultaneously or even slightly off set timing.

    What needs to be nerfed or at least cost more stam, is the spamming. Currently called combos. The only thing that is different than spamming the buttons in the right timing is the ability to change up the spamming attacks. It seems that it is currently limited to a 3 swing combo for most weapons except the Brandistock. But then you can start another 3 swing spam combo back to back to back. If any one of the makes contact then the blow back allows for little defense against the spam combo. The swing spam combo is also the reason for many of the TKs in this game as most noobs do exactly that, spam swing combos right in the middle of a crowd of people. No skill necessary.



  • Thanks for mentioning that too, I hate the combo system, it takes no skill… Your forced to spam to get your combo to work, I like the idea of linking rather than chaining combos, if you dont understand the difference between chain and link combos see here --> http://iplaywinner.com/news/2011/10/14/links-vs-chains-whats-the-better-combo-system.html

    As for your RL fighting, do you stab at your target A to B or do you go from A to C then to B? if it is the latter, your obviously playing a points system and not replicating an actual combat situation, it is like comparing TKD point system against MMA… in MMA half the TKD feints arent used because they arent as effective in a closer to real fighting situation, not just TKD but also Karate too.

    If you type AOCdrawtracers 1 i think… then do your stab attack and adjust you will see the stab becomes more of a slash looking attack, this is what I’m talking about, the stab motion should be totally static attack to allow ppl the ability to dodge it by strafing.

    I use all these feints and stabbing techniques btw, Its the only way to stay ahead of the pack, I just know that winning with these tactics isn’t as satisfying as it should be.

    Saying that simply attacking someone who uses feints is asking to be exploited, the feinter has the advantage with the attack already finishing the windup sequence, so they can release it as soon as your in range catching u in your windup phase or dealing damage and receiving damage (which is the other part of the thread that annoys me).

    Taking damage after you give damage without having the opportunity to block after a successful strike has got to be the most annoying feeling in the world, if you could parry directly after your blade hits someone would allow you to block that incoming attack, and would take skill and remove that annoying part about the mechanics.


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