TO - Encourage Teamwork and Objective Play



  • Short Developer-Friendly Version

    Players seem to care too much about their kills, and killing everything that moves, in Team Objective. They do not seem to care enough about playing the objective itself. The following two suggestions are ways to encourage teamwork and playing the objective.

    Reward Playing the Objective

    Increase the points given to players who play the objective. Also create ‘zones’ around objectives where the points awarded for killing players is increased, so that fighting near the objective is rewarded more than fighting away from it. As an addition to this, reduce the points awarded for killing players in TO overall.

    Remove Kills from Scoreboard

    This is a bit more drastic idea, but some games don’t even show how many kills you have if you are playing a team-based objective mode. This encourages focusing on the objective and reduces the number of players caring about their kill count, because no one sees their killcount.

    Full Post

    I decided to start this thread to discuss a big problem in Team Objective as well as how to improve it. Right now, there is a large amount of people who seem to not understand what the Team in Team Objective means, as well as the Objective part…

    People complain about “kill stealing”, which should really be considered Teamwork in Team Objective. If the objective is what matters, not kills (this is TO and not TDM right?), then why do people care about how many kills they get? Another similar complaint is that people interrupt “fair fights” and duels. If people want fair duels, they should be playing a duel server.

    If I come across someone having a 1v1 in TO, I am not going to ignore them or wait and see who wins, that’s just stupid. I’m here to play the objective, and that player fighting the enemy in this 1v1 is not able to play the objective when he’s fighting the enemy. I’m not going to let that player waste extra time in a duel, and I’m not going to wait and see if he’s killed or not. I’m going to kill that enemy and move on, so that both of us can continue playing the objective, and there is no risk of that friendly dying and that enemy being left to attack another friendly.

    Another problem in TO is that people… just don’t play the objective. People care more about fighting whatever is closest to them and completely ignore the objective, even if they are in a perfect situation to do whatever the objective requires. I’ve run right through big battles on the map where you burn the market/fields/granary, picked up a torch, sprinted and avoided all the enemies, and burned down targets while my team is just attacking anything that moves. Shouldn’t they be playing Team Deathmatch?

    I promise I didn’t make this thread just to bitch, I’m just sharing my own experience and opinion. The question is, am I the only one who believes in playing the objective? And how can the developers make changes to TO to reduce these issues?

    The best way I can think of, and how some other games have improved their own objective modes, is to greatly increase the reward for playing the objective and reduce the points you get from kills. I’m not entirely sure how objective points are handled, but I assume they’re rather basic right now, such as points for burning something, points for helping kill the king, points for using the ram to break down the gate, etc. Some ways to further reward playing the objective could be increased points for killing enemies >near< the objective.

    An example for this would be the first part of the map where you burn the market/fields/granary. Points for killing enemy players are reduced in Team Objective overall, but when you are within a certain distance of the targets (the market, the granary, and the wheat fields) the points for killing players could be increased. This would encourage players to fight the enemy near the objectives and help clear the area, rather than just fighting wherever they find a target.

    Another way to encourage playing the objective and not caring so much about kills would be to entirely remove kills from showing up on the scoreboard, though I imagine this would be disliked by the majority of the community.

    So, what are your own thoughts on these issues, and my suggestions to fix them?



  • Doing objectives already gives you enormous amounts of points. Check the scoreboard near the end of the round next time you play a TO map - the attacking team almost inevitably has 2x the point totals as the defending team if not more, unless they were completely stonewalled on the first objective.



  • Totally confirmed!

    Reward Playing the Objective

    Increase the points given to players who play the objective. Also create ‘zones’ around objectives where the points awarded for killing players is increased, so that fighting near the objective is rewarded more than fighting away from it. As an addition to this, reduce the points awarded for killing players in TO overall.

    … sounds like state if the art for TO-based games anyway.

    Mindless slaughtering seems to be a corepart of this game, however, so not showing kills in TO would probably upset a lot of ppl. Another way would be to count a completed objective as 5-10 kills ( amount = highly discussable).

    @SlyGoat:

    Doing objectives already gives you enormous amounts of points. Check the scoreboard near the end of the round next time you play a TO map - the attacking team almost inevitably has 2x the point totals as the defending team if not more, unless they were completely stonewalled on the first objective.

    On the other hand, there is nearly no difference between a objective oriented and a kill oriented player on the personal scores ( average 10-20 points difference, I guess) IF I’m not mistaken since I mostly don’t watch my points… just the accuracy :D
    Also, the defending team doesn’t seem to get encourage that way and I, infact, see lots of ppl wandering the map far away from any trebuchet w/e.



  • @Escadin:

    Totally confirmed!

    Reward Playing the Objective

    Increase the points given to players who play the objective. Also create ‘zones’ around objectives where the points awarded for killing players is increased, so that fighting near the objective is rewarded more than fighting away from it. As an addition to this, reduce the points awarded for killing players in TO overall.

    … sounds like state if the art for TO-based games anyway.

    Mindless slaughtering seems to be a corepart of this game, however, so not showing kills in TO would probably upset a lot of ppl. Another way would be to count a completed objective as 5-10 kills ( amount = highly discussable).

    @SlyGoat:

    Doing objectives already gives you enormous amounts of points. Check the scoreboard near the end of the round next time you play a TO map - the attacking team almost inevitably has 2x the point totals as the defending team if not more, unless they were completely stonewalled on the first objective.

    On the other hand, there is nearly no difference between a objective oriented and a kill oriented player on the personal scores ( average 10-20 points i guess) IF I’m not mistaken since I mostly don’t watch my points… just the accuracy :D

    I figured it would upset people, but I thought I’d post it for discussion since I have seen it in games before.

    And as you said, the fact that the point difference between objective and killing oriented players is not different is the problem. A player can usually have an easier time topping the scoreboard just by mindless slaughter than a player focused on the objective.

    Not everyone can receive points for the objective as well, depending on the objective of course, so that is another reason that increasing the points for killing players near the objective would be a great addition.



  • it feels good to see your name in the killfeed (when you are killing) maybe it would work as well with doing the objective, the game would write in an all message : X and Y destroyed trebuchet 1!



  • @Veltoss:

    _
    Remove Kills from Scoreboard_

    +1 bazillion.

    I doubt it would ever happen though.



  • Reward Playing the Objective

    Increase the points given to players who play the objective. Also create ‘zones’ around objectives where the points awarded for killing players is increased, so that fighting near the objective is rewarded more than fighting away from it. As an addition to this, reduce the points awarded for killing players in TO overall.

    Just wanted to point out that this already happens. Though the indication could be better :)

    There are zones around the pushables and capture volumes that give points per few seconds, and you get +5 on to your kill for killing enemies near an objective. So an objective kill is worth an awesome 15 points.



  • Why does there even need to be points and a personal scoreboard for TO?
    Your team wins or loses by completing objectives or defending them for a certain amount of time.
    If you get rid of the score board it makes the game only about the objective.
    If it pisses people off too bad, they’ll get over it.
    Keep the scoreboard for every other game mode for people who want to stroke their e-peen and make TO just about being on a medieval battlefield.



  • Maybe add the points earnd for objectives to the rank in some way.
    I like seeing my kills at the end of the round. I think its even enough to get points for doing objectives that should courage peole enough (higher on the scoreboard), also its better for your k/d if you play objective style because you play more carfully and there are mates with you who protect you etc … people will learn that, or not but then we cant help them, remember when you where 13 :)



  • What about, as a compromise you can still see your K/D etc stats at the bottom of the screen but you can’t see anyone elses on the score board, and you don’t move up or down the score board where you start is where you stay and it is just a list of players on your team and there is no leaderboard to top?



  • Problem is, that shiny new sword, spear, or bow is only unlocked through one thing. Kills. Now I don’t know about you, but getting 100 kills with xbows to get that t3 is goign to take a LONG time. You would want to shorten that time any way possible right? So maybe you have to… secure your teamates kills. If unlocking weapons was point based then maybe this would work… maybe…



  • And after unlocking ? :D
    @Ndio:

    What about, as a compromise you can still see your K/D etc stats at the bottom of the screen but you can’t see anyone elses on the score board, and you don’t move up or down the score board where you start is where you stay and it is just a list of players on your team and there is no leaderboard to top?

    Or dont show the k/d on the scoreboard but add the kills the the overall score, leaderboards encourage me doing good in public, high scores should be even more rewarded with armors or helemts etc. But no idea maybe because its because i can play to the top of the leaderboard if i really want to and its good to see me there then but im Endeffekt its not neccesary.



  • I don’t know about you guys, but I get the most of my points from the Objective. See exhibit 1.

    Exhibit 1.
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=107583235


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