Archery Hall



  • This thread is about 2 things:

    What means archery to this game?

    Brief, popular opinions. (will be updated)
    -I don’t want it because it’s too hard
    -I hate that part of the game as a melee-player in general
    -I do enjoy it, yet it feels lacking
    -> Archery is overall not accepted the way it is now.

    Edit:
    _
    Briefly, I propose to change the low velocity-cripple for another mechanism that takes more of the archers aiming skills into account and, in return, make aiming harder and decrease archers melee abilities. Dodging should still be possible.
    _
    Updated opinions
    -archer depends more on melee combat, which is good. Good meleeplayer still don’t have much trouble killing them.
    -bows and crossbows aren’t what they used to be in AoC which is bad. Especially these two need tweaking.

    What I think.
    Since I love archery and practice it in RL, there was no doubt I would only play archer Chivalry. Tbh it is one of the best archery-containing multiplayergames I happen to know so far. After playing quite an amount of time as the aiming dude, I realized some facts about it.
    Nomatter what you do, you won’t get past a certain level/ skill whatever you want to call it- I measure it in accuracy. Why? Due to the very low arrow velocity. Nomatter what skills you train, what tricks you learn, players higher than a certain rank will always be able to outplay you (which is not a bad thing generally (I’ll come back to it later on).
    You can learn to predict the enemy’s actions, you can learn to use your environment, how to exchange advantages with your teammates and last but not least how to aim. However, after you decided to stay in the right position, considered that there is a chokepoint in front of you, figured the enemy will go straight for your head, chose this certain enemy over another in order to prevent friendly fire, checked the zones and how they’d affect his path And predicted his most likely path + adjusted the height of your crosshair, the only thing you can do is lose the arrow. What the problem is? This was about 50% what it takes to land a successful shot. The 50% aren’t your cup of tea. From now on it’s up to the enemy. A noob will just keep walking and die. Fun. But you’re hopefully not against total newbies all the time…

    Actually there is a lot that ppl can do here: a random jump, random change of direction, up to very close range: watch for the arrow and intentionally dodge, use a shield, stop pressing ‘w’ for a sec, crouch, change his mind to retreat/ go for another target, stop/start sprinting, etc… A shield may not be an unbreakable barrier, but it absorbs A LOT of fire for the fact there is no effort behind it. All of this avoids 100% of all damage in at least 50% of all cases.

    It’s sometimes very frustrating to see with what ease ppl can dodge arrows fired from like 3yards away. Well those ppl might not find it frustrating but they have to agree it’s not realistic.
    In conclusion, archery is infact a noskiller/lucker class, because your score, your accuracy, your personal “ppl who I saved” counter, whatever you like to raise and be good in, it will just partially depend on your actual skill.
    -> equally skilled archer vs melee means there is no other way to hit than by chance.

    Yet, I sure realize that if the effective accuracy of an archer were 100% of his skill, we would have legolas like freefarming of easy targets on any server. Exactly this fact is why they chose to cripple archers and why archery has actually no place in this game, if you play it as a massive medival streetfighter.
    ->There is no way to balance a direct fight / comparsion between archery and melee!

    Maybe there is another perspective for this: What is an archers job on a medival battlefield/ in TO mode? I believe archers should be the enemies no1 problem until it comes to closecombat clashes. Both teams should value and use their archers properly. It is reasonable that enemies fall to good aim shots and I don’t see why TO metagame shouldn’t be built around archers in some way. You need archers to weaken the enemy lines and you need your own archers to prevent this. A decent team would also bring in shields to counter archery in general (at this point I suggest making shields even more arrow resistant). Also here is a chance to separate bows and xbows: Make one beating the other, like archers take out unprotected melees, xbows take out archers. After that, the slashingfest begins.

    In my opinion, tweaks towards this perspective can actually contribute to the rangecombat issues in this game. They would include stuff like:
    -removing broeadhead arrows so ONLY xbows oneshot archers.
    -increase velocity depending on bowpower (range) -> warbow and heavy xbow go for the longrange snipe, a [to be slighty faster than now] shortbow / light xbow go for tactical closecombat.
    -implementing another crippleingmechanism, like an highly increased destabilationeffect /weaponsway for bows (it’s there, just not really doing anything at all)
    -removing the crosshair for bows and xbows. Xbows may still have their natural aimingdevices.
    -give vanguard a mechanism to avoid arrows ( since they have no shield and no dodge/extra hp) that’s not always available like the other ones.(have to choose it b4 spawn w/e) Or make them prey on archers alike at closer range, through a charge attack that’s unblockable by small weapons like daggers.
    -make archers even more helpless in melee, through a more balanced and punishing stamina system, where archers still don’t have much stamina at all- but this time it matters.
    -further slow down archers with drawn long / warbows in character and cameramovement

    I want this to be discussed with arguments and without the “go die” manner. Also I’ll keep updating what seems to be popular opinions about archery and I aim for a huge list of possible and reasonable changes to the archery system or certain weapons.

    –----------------------------------------------

    Since I’m not the demand only type, I want to share my tricks and so should you!

    What makes a good archer?
    -good feeling for how to adjust a shot considering distance, target speed, etc
    -work with your team
    -realize there are different playstyles for the rogue class / choose the right
    -choose the right targets

    How do we add our 50%?
    The most important thing is that you’re able to hit in a perfect situation. Besides an immense playtime, there’re some helpful things I’ve noticed:
    Learn the maps and figure good spots for archer placement. It is not always what the maps want you to believe. Elevated spots that like they were made not only attract the newbie. They attract fire and flanking melees and mostly make aiming harder. You’re looking for narrow paths were the enemy is forced to run straight up to your position. Therefor Chokepoints of any nature should be searched and exploited. (Tipp: Use the pavise shield to temporarily block them or narrow them even more.) This includes portals, housings, bridges and tunnels. After you figured your sweet locations, look out for a specific spot where you will always return if you get to take advantage of the related chokepoint. This way you train identical aiming-situations over and over again and you remember certain height / speed adjustments on which you can rely on. Of course, you should keep finding new spots for these chokepoints so your options keep growing and you don’t get predictable, later on.
    Try weighing the options your enemy has. In other words try to imagine if you’re target is currently forced to retreat because he’s alone and 3 of your soldiers are charging him -> the path you should be predicting leads straight backwards. Or is he most likely to jump an unaware teammember within seconds -> aim for your teammates postion this will be the enemy’s soon. (In fact, even aim for his head! It works like 4/5 times, trust me).
    Use your teammates. You won’t be able to solo an enemy in melee except for he is way weaker than yourself, OR you managed to hit him at least once with your ranged weapon. If a melee is approaching, draw your dagger one shot earlier than you think and buy some time with blocking till your teammates arrive. Always stick to the majority of your team. Advance if they do, fall back if they die - supporting them is your job, after all. What they want you to do in return is NOT to screw up their melee fights with friendly fire and killsteals. You’re supposed to delay / prevent incoming reinforcements or to focus on the enemy archers so they have to focus you back and eventually die (depending on your weapon).
    How close you stick to your teammates and which of your objectives you prefer depends on your choice of weapon, so here are some facts about the weapons I figured so far:

    -Shortbow can be used in very close combat situations without being punished. It also has a good firerate to make up for beginners aiming skills and fast-paced melee clashes. Even without broadhead arrows this bow will often win a duel against a warbow since it can hitlock the enemy, leaving him unable to fully draw his bow/fire an arrow.

    -Warbow does a lot of damage and is still faster reloaded than a crossbow. It should be used with botkinarrows, EXCEPT for a massive archerwar breaks out as you can still oneshot single archers to the head. It is however very punishing to use it close to the enemy and in most cases you’re better of to draw your dagger and fall back.

    -Heavy Crossbow is your choice for a defense scenario and if you’re bothered by the enemy archers. In stationary archer vs archer combat it is superior over the warbow, because during the time both are “loaded” the crossbowman moves / aimes faster -> dodges easier and it oneshots archers and flanking man at arms (<- no other ranged weapon does this) . During the time the crossbow has to be reloaded, you can just take cover ->”pause” the duel, so you don’t lose your speed advantage. In case there is no valid archer target you can swap to melee targets without the drawback of broadhead arrows. The pavise shield helps a lot in archers vs archers fights. Also you’re able to pop out of your cover for a much briefer time than the bowarcher.

    -Pavise shield in general should be used to tighten up paths or -with more than one xbowman in your team- to wall off teamobjectives. It is true they are easily destroyed, but the wall gives your team some confidence / makes enemies probably think twice of engaging. A narrowed corridor would leave an approaching enemy with 2 options: go through the gap or the destroy your shield. Both are very predictable as they put the enemy into a position where he has to react to what you do AND you already know what his few options are. This means usually a whole bunch in competitive situations. Also consider that there is no effort behind this.

    I want you to add to this list, as it is not complete for sure. Many archers will be in your debt.
    PM me if you’re a good archer! I want to know who’s out there and I want to play with them!

    SOC is not allowed here, since he will only troll this thread.



  • i play archer more then any other class, because honestly i feel i contribute more with it, and i disagree with some things.

    firstly, you focus solely on archers in this game as a ranged class, and its not, and its because of that view most archers are teamkilling or not contributing. you have melee weapons, even your dagger is capable in taking knights out in duels, its extreamly good at punishing weakness in melee fighters. i think all archers should learn melee fighting with the dagger before they learn how to fire the bow, it will not only save your life, it will help you contribute to team objectives.

    archers are not snipers. to much in this game archers stand way back and fire, and i blame this on the arrow cam, it needs to go. archers should be mid range fighters (javlin users should be front line fighters) be close enough to fire accuratly over your allies shoulders, but far enough away that a charging enemy will have to take atleast 2 arrows from you first, and draw your dagger. close ranged archers will help more then long ranged ones, on top of better accuracy and the added benifit you can jump in and deal real dmg with our backstab, we become a threat, an enemy taht has to worry about 2 will screw up more often, enemies dont typically worry about the archers they cant see.

    i use broadhead arrows exclucivly with my warbow. why? one hit enemy archers, my only real threat, and taking one more arrow to kill anyone else is not a big problem.

    i also dont see why archery has no place in the game? it serves its use, and is directly counterable. this is the SPG argument in World of Tanks all over. use cover, dont move predictably or have your own ranged counter theres. archers are not OP, nore are they UP, melee fighters need to learn to adapt to teh situation, if your in a duel and arrows come flying, direct the duel to cover, most maps in this game offer adaquete cover, theres 3 off the top of my head that lacks cover, 2 of which are deathmatch maps. its really not hard to fight on your own terms, its just most players dont feel they should.

    i also disagree that archers aim isnt 100% skill, there is nothing in the mecanincs that cripple the archers aim. sure the enemy can counter your aiming by moving unpredicatble, but thats not a cripple, thats a counter, thats balence. the only arguable cripple to aiming are bad crosshairs (for those that use them)

    xbow vs bow users, same as AoC, bows are vastly more mobile, higher rate of fire, and i think the arrow speed was a bit faster. xbows are sluggish, they take a long time to reload and leave you vurnable when doing so, but they could 1 shot a knight if aimed right. the whol point of the xbow’s design was penatration, accuracy (aoc had iron sights) and range.

    as far as your last point, i cant help but not see a problem here, an enemy should be able to out menuver, yes a higher arrow velocity would be much better, theres a certian distence arrows should not be dodgeable HOWEVER i dont want it changed. archers need to learn how to fight with their secondary, thats the point. your secondary weapons are deadly, if we made arrows un dodgeable in a certian distence we will just get melee snipers, its terrible in any fps gam you play, and it will be terrible here.

    with my normal range i can get 2 shots off, often atleast one will hit before i have to take my melee weapon out, but i have a huge advantage in melee combat, i use a dagger. yeah it takes a few more hits to down an enemy who can often 1 shot me. but my atk animation is so quick, my parry animation is so quick, that most weapons in the game cant fight it, you can perma flicnh them, your 3rd attack (over hand stab) is particuarlly good at stabbing past shields.

    archers need a few QoL changes (espcially javs and xbows) but they are not op or up, they are annoying, and most archers dont play it effeciently, and most melee dont want to learn how to play against them.



  • @opticalshadow:

    firstly, you focus solely on archers in this game as a ranged class, and its not, and its because of that view most archers are teamkilling or not contributing. you have melee weapons, even your dagger is capable in taking knights out in duels, its extreamly good at punishing weakness in melee fighters. i think all archers should learn melee fighting with the dagger before they learn how to fire the bow, it will not only save your life, it will help you contribute to team objectives.

    It is theoretically capable of taking out knights. Imagine a meleecombat between 2 overall equal players, archer vs knight. He spent all his playtaime training meleecombat - you did not. He has way more hp and does way more damage, to an extent that you are not allowed a single mistake in this battle, while he can purposely take hits to get you off guard. You have way lesss stamina, and if you wanted to focus on this playing a maa would’ve been your choice in the first place. Ofc, archers need to use their melee weapon, but it’s not their mainweapon for a reason.

    @opticalshadow:

    i also dont see why archery has no place in the game? it serves its use, and is directly counterable. this is the SPG argument in World of Tanks all over. use cover, dont move predictably or have your own ranged counter theres. archers are not OP, nore are they UP, melee fighters need to learn to adapt to teh situation, if your in a duel and arrows come flying, direct the duel to cover, most maps in this game offer adaquete cover, theres 3 off the top of my head that lacks cover, 2 of which are deathmatch maps. its really not hard to fight on your own terms, its just most players dont feel they should.

    I wrote there is no place for it in a certain perspective which a lot of ppl seem have. After that you’re right. This is, of course, part of what it takes to be a good archer.

    @opticalshadow:

    i also disagree that archers aim isnt 100% skill, there is nothing in the mecanincs that cripple the archers aim. sure the enemy can counter your aiming by moving unpredicatble, but thats not a cripple, thats a counter, thats balence. the only arguable cripple to aiming are bad crosshairs (for those that use them)

    Due to the fact that the game takes your whole skill and measures it against the enemies dodging skills, while both count almost equally, no it isn’t. You may not want to call it crippleing, but actually you agree here that this mechanism was meant to balance archery. All I say is change this mechanism to another one, that takes more of the archers skill into account and makes aiming itself harder in return. I don’t see why the crosshair wouldn’t be helpful at all, still I turn it off for closer/very mobile targets.

    @opticalshadow:

    xbow vs bow users, same as AoC, bows are vastly more mobile, higher rate of fire, and i think the arrow speed was a bit faster. xbows are sluggish, they take a long time to reload and leave you vurnable when doing so, but they could 1 shot a knight if aimed right. the whol point of the xbow’s design was penatration, accuracy (aoc had iron sights) and range.

    Well… it’s not in this game. They have equal arrow velocity, xbows don’t oneshot knights, and it’s a common mistake that bows are more mobile in any situation. There is no difference in accuracy between a xbow and a bow.

    @opticalshadow:

    as far as your last point, i cant help but not see a problem here, an enemy should be able to out menuver, yes a higher arrow velocity would be much better, theres a certian distence arrows should not be dodgeable HOWEVER i dont want it changed. archers need to learn how to fight with their secondary, thats the point. your secondary weapons are deadly, if we made arrows un dodgeable in a certian distence we will just get melee snipers, its terrible in any fps gam you play, and it will be terrible here.

    I didn’t state archery should be uncounterable / arrows be unavoidable anywhere. And again, if you want to focus mostly on your melee weapon, why not play maa in the first place?

    @opticalshadow:

    with my normal range i can get 2 shots off, often atleast one will hit before i have to take my melee weapon out, but i have a huge advantage in melee combat, i use a dagger. yeah it takes a few more hits to down an enemy who can often 1 shot me. but my atk animation is so quick, my parry animation is so quick, that most weapons in the game cant fight it, you can perma flicnh them, your 3rd attack (over hand stab) is particuarlly good at stabbing past shields.

    Archers don’t have any advantage in melee fights. And it would be silly to give them one. Only a weakened enemy (e.g. you hit him with your bow) or one that spend less time training meleecombat than you is beatable in a meleecombat situation. It is infact easy to block their big and slow weapons, but advanced players will switch to fast axes that oneshot archers to the face while you have to deliver 5 or more hits- obviously without a mistake to spare. So yes you can defend yourself,but you cannot go rampage with your dagger, execpt there’re only rank 5 player on your opponent’s team. Also flinching is sometimes very hard since you can’t flinch idle targets. It just won’t happen if you don’t catch a certain timing.

    @opticalshadow:

    archers need a few QoL changes (espcially javs and xbows) but they are not op or up, they are annoying, and most archers dont play it effeciently, and most melee dont want to learn how to play against them.

    This sounds very agreeable :D



  • Ok I have only played meleeclasses so far( around 60h, mostly Vanguard), so I cannot really confirm anything regarding the aiming etc., but I can confirm that it is almost too easy to dodge incoming arrows or even block them with a shield. I can easly charge towards one or two archers without getting hit and slaughter them even if they are skilled player in meleecombat, since I just have to hit them twice -with a Dane Axe for example- while they are forced to hit me around 5-6 times.

    @opticalshadow:

    with my normal range i can get 2 shots off, often atleast one will hit before i have to take my melee weapon out, but i have a huge advantage in melee combat, i use a dagger. yeah it takes a few more hits to down an enemy who can often 1 shot me. but my atk animation is so quick, my parry animation is so quick, that most weapons in the game cant fight it, you can perma flicnh them, your 3rd attack (over hand stab) is particuarlly good at stabbing past shields.

    I have to admit that I usually retreat when I got hit by an arrow because that is the only time an archer could kill me with his dagger but, as I said, it is quite easy to prevent it just by walking a bit weird. Furthermore, I have not made the experience that a dagger of any kind is significantly faster than a 1h-axe. I can block and counterattack without any problem and since I am “skilled enough” to win almost any -at least somehow- fair duel against a knight, who has much more HP than I have and usually uses a mace while I am only using 2h-swords, I win around 99,9% of the meleeduels against archer. The fact that many “real archer”, by which I mean archers, who have played as one more than an hour, focus on their rangeability is not helping in those situations.

    To sum up my point: I have as a good meleeplayer absolutly no problems with archer in any situation. When I am fighting a knight and an archer, I will just ignore the archer and try to kill the knight because the archer cannot realy to do anything. He will either hit his friends more likely than me or he will run into the combat and get killed by his unaware friend or me. So I do think that Escadin made a few good points.



  • @Escadin:

    It is theoretically capable of taking out knights. Imagine a meleecombat between 2 overall equal players, archer vs knight. He spent all his playtaime training meleecombat - you did not. He has way more hp and does way more damage, to an extent that you are not allowed a single mistake in this battle, while he can purposely take hits to get you off guard. You have way lesss stamina, and if you wanted to focus on this playing a maa would’ve been your choice in the first place. Ofc, archers need to use their melee weapon, but it’s not their mainweapon for a reason.
    its not theoretically possple, its flat out possible, its done alot. knights have better atk power, but they are slow, even with their fastest weapon they are slower. this gives you somethign other classes really cant, you can hit when hes animation locked. you can easily attack when hes winding up and flinch lock him, your parry animation is faster, meaning feints can actualyl still be parried, if done quick enough. and if you manage to get behind him (not all that hard) your dmg goes way up. more to the point, it only takes 2 short sword head shots to down a knight, if you went with power over speed.

    Due to the fact that the game takes your whole skill and measures it against the enemies dodging skills, while both count almost equally, no it isn’t. You may not want to call it crippleing, but actually you agree here that this mechanism was meant to balance archery. All I say is change this mechanism to another one, that takes more of the archers skill into account and makes aiming itself harder in return. I don’t see why the crosshair wouldn’t be helpful at all, still I turn it off for closer/very mobile targets.

    this is the same for every multiplyer game save mmo’s with lock on abilities. you can dodge shots in any fps game, you can dodge sword slashes in this game too, its nothign any otehr class doesnt have to deal with, or any other game doesnt deal with, therefore i cannot count it against teh archer. two knights in battle can play all they want, but if the one guy steps back, what ist matter then? i dont disagree that it means you can be outplayed out of your cotnrol, but i dont call it a cripple because every other class has this same problem

    =
    Well… it’s not in this game. They have equal arrow velocity, xbows don’t oneshot knights, and it’s a common mistake that bows are more mobile in any situation. There is no difference in accuracy between a xbow and a bow.

    i agree all the ranged weapons need tweaking, and xbows need alot of love as there isnt alot of pros to using them. accuracy in the xbow i feel is a little better because aiming it withotu crosshairs is not only more accurate, but easier to aim, you also are not on a timer when you line up a shot like bows. inherintly theres no number advantage here, just slight mecanical ones. that said xbows should be more accurate (in they fly strighter longer)

    I didn’t state archery should be uncounterable / arrows be unavoidable anywhere. And again, if you want to focus mostly on your melee weapon, why not play maa in the first place?

    im not saying focus on your melee weapon mostly, im saying archers need to learn it and get use to using it. ranged is your strogn point true. but to much range has a dimitive return. the fartehr you are away the higher your chance of ally interfearence, and the greater teh chance enemies will move. if your closer to the battle yoru shots have a better chance at hitting their intended target. another thing is how useful melee weapons are, the thing here is people embrace the bow as their onyl option, ive seen scores of archers fire their bows in melee combat getting cut down because its a terrible idea. i think most players waste a portion of their class that makes them more adaptable.

    Archers don’t have any advantage in melee fights. And it would be silly to give them one. Only a weakened enemy (e.g. you hit him with your bow) or one that spend less time training meleecombat than you is beatable in a meleecombat situation. It is infact easy to block their big and slow weapons, but advanced players will switch to fast axes that oneshot archers to the face while you have to deliver 5 or more hits- obviously without a mistake to spare. So yes you can defend yourself,but you cannot go rampage with your dagger, execpt there’re only rank 5 player on your opponent’s team. Also flinching is sometimes very hard since you can’t flinch idle targets. It just won’t happen if you don’t catch a certain timing.
    i disagree, we have less hp, we have less dmg, but we are alot faster. you can take advantage of slower weapons better then anyone else. its alot harder, theres a huge skill cap with no room for error, but that doesnt mean an advantage isnt there, it jsut means its hard to do. the speed of a dagger is fast enough to parry and atk inbetween animations. im not saying were better at it, overall were not, but we do have this one advantage, and especialyl at this stage of the game, theres a lot of room to abuse it.

    tossed my thoughts in red/



  • Hey guys. So, before I start sharing my tough about archers, I want to put my point about something :

    Imagine a meleecombat between 2 overall equal players, archer vs knight. He spent all his playtaime training meleecombat

    Knight doesn’t train themselve for meleecombat. They just slash, slash, slash again, and sometimes remember what they learn in tutorial. Pardon my french but : La majorité des classes lourdes sont des saloperies de lopettes qui pensent plus au frag facile, au surprisebuttsex et au vol qu’à apprendre à jouer autant leur classe que les objectifs. L’intérêt d’une classe lourde c’est d’imager qu’une armure te donne une paire de couille !
    /trolling mode off.

    About archery, I was an old and good user of the longbow on AoC, and I must say I was a bit disapointed by the archery in Chivalry.

    The crosshair was like the most ultimate stupid add ever made ! The fact that we can’t totaly disable it from the option is an aberation. (Or, if we can, please, told me !).

    The aim get me pretty much divised. The gravity that affect the arrow (good) the speed (bad) the non visual sight for aim (disturbing). Because I like to get challenge before accepting the “Best archer of the world” title, I’m pretty happy that they made the bow a bit harder to use.
    But seriously, after some hours of playing it I realise that the hitbox of arrow aren’t good as they were. Mysteriously non headshooting arrow, immateriality of player jumping on you…

    Good point was about the shield that doesn’t protect the feet anymore. Bad point, passiv protection of the shield when it isn’t use.
    Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a good thing that you can block arrow you turn your shield side to the ennemie archery. But the fact that often protect both sides isn’t really cool…

    About melee fight, I’m pretty sad to not find the “last weapons use” shortcut. The game oblige me to press my sword shotcut ten time before it switch… So fun to be killed by heavy when you can’t fight back. However, it seems that the problems come from my computer so…
    Shortsword are pretty cool, dagger are fast but, seriously, I hit harder with my fist. (And yes, I really do comparison. I killed more heavy that took an arrow with my fist, than with daggers O_O).

    To conclude, I’ll say this : THIS.

    (Sorry about the bad english, hope you can read the major part).



  • @opticalshadow:

    its not theoretically possple, its flat out possible, its done alot. knights have better atk power, but they are slow, even with their fastest weapon they are slower. this gives you somethign other classes really cant, you can hit when hes animation locked. you can easily attack when hes winding up and flinch lock him, your parry animation is faster, meaning feints can actualyl still be parried, if done quick enough. and if you manage to get behind him (not all that hard) your dmg goes way up. more to the point, it only takes 2 short sword head shots to down a knight, if you went with power over speed.
    […]
    im not saying focus on your melee weapon mostly, im saying archers need to learn it and get use to using it. ranged is your strogn point true. but to much range has a dimitive return. the fartehr you are away the higher your chance of ally interfearence, and the greater teh chance enemies will move. if your closer to the battle yoru shots have a better chance at hitting their intended target. another thing is how useful melee weapons are, the thing here is people embrace the bow as their onyl option, ive seen scores of archers fire their bows in melee combat getting cut down because its a terrible idea. i think most players waste a portion of their class that makes them more adaptable.
    […]
    i disagree, we have less hp, we have less dmg, but we are alot faster. you can take advantage of slower weapons better then anyone else. its alot harder, theres a huge skill cap with no room for error, but that doesnt mean an advantage isnt there, it jsut means its hard to do. the speed of a dagger is fast enough to parry and atk inbetween animations. im not saying were better at it, overall were not, but we do have this one advantage, and especialyl at this stage of the game, theres a lot of room to abuse it.

    So why is this happening your opinion?:

    @Banjohitler:

    I have to admit that I usually retreat when I got hit by an arrow because that is the only time an archer could kill me with his dagger but, as I said, it is quite easy to prevent it just by walking a bit weird. Furthermore, I have not made the experience that a dagger of any kind is significantly faster than a 1h-axe. I can block and counterattack without any problem and since I am “skilled enough” to win almost any -at least somehow- fair duel against a knight, who has much more HP than I have and usually uses a mace while I am only using 2h-swords, I win around 99,9% of the meleeduels against archer. The fact that many “real archer”, by which I mean archers, who have played as one more than an hour, focus on their rangeability is not helping in those situations.

    Other than that, you may be right that archers maybe have a greater melee part than I and probably some other ppl want them to. Well that might be dev’s intention so we got to accept this.
    Still, I don’t believe that archer is or should be equal to all other classes in melee. Yes there is this one advantage and yes it’s god damn hard to take it, so you actually have to train that more than shooting. This is not what I want an archer to be like but ok.
    However, what might work in 1v1 situations becomes something very different in 2v2 or else. Now, imagine archer+knight vs 2 knights. The archer is probably forced to drop the bow since he’ll likely hit his buddy and the 2 knights will push the fight close to the archer anyway. What usually happens next is the archer becoming colleteral shish kebab because he went into the big boys playing their real big weapons. Whoever hits first, gets the kill / nomatter if TK or Freefarm. What is an archer supposed to do in this situation? It is very common after all.

    Also, I still can’t see the harm in an increased velocity. Increase it so dodging is still possible, and only the slowest weapons recieve much of it. It wouldn’t take the dodge ability out of the gameplay. Just give the archer more for his good aim, since good melees won’t. You had just no point against that.
    Anyhow, thanks for your valuable and in a good manner stated opinions!



  • @Liori:

    About archery, I was an old and good user of the longbow on AoC, and I must say I was a bit disapointed by the archery in Chivalry.

    The crosshair was like the most ultimate stupid add ever made ! The fact that we can’t totaly disable it from the option is an aberation. (Or, if we can, please, told me !).

    The aim get me pretty much divised. The gravity that affect the arrow (good) the speed (bad) the non visual sight for aim (disturbing). Because I like to get challenge before accepting the “Best archer of the world” title, I’m pretty happy that they made the bow a bit harder to use.
    But seriously, after some hours of playing it I realise that the hitbox of arrow aren’t good as they were. Mysteriously non headshooting arrow, immateriality of player jumping on you…

    Good point was about the shield that doesn’t protect the feet anymore. Bad point, passiv protection of the shield when it isn’t use.
    Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a good thing that you can block arrow you turn your shield side to the ennemie archery. But the fact that often protect both sides isn’t really cool…

    About melee fight, I’m pretty sad to not find the “last weapons use” shortcut. The game oblige me to press my sword shotcut ten time before it switch… So fun to be killed by heavy when you can’t fight back. However, it seems that the problems come from my computer so…
    Shortsword are pretty cool, dagger are fast but, seriously, I hit harder with my fist. (And yes, I really do comparison. I killed more heavy that took an arrow with my fist, than with daggers O_O).
    .

    Thanks for your reply dude. :D
    I don’t know how archery was in AoC, but it sounds much like I want it to be in chivalry. Also I personally don’t have anything against the passive shieldblocks. I want shields to be effective against ranged weapons, since ppl using shields show enough respect for archers to not just troll-jump-avoid their headshots.
    About the bad hitboxes: I can’t tell if that’s true. I always thought that might be latency or just a bad shot. Although, xbowmen are sometimes hard to headshot with their pavise shield on the back. Either it really breaks the hitbox or it somehow manages to distract me. Sometimes I miss 3 blancshots in a row on a notmoving xbowman, which is totally not how bad I am. (Not shooting his back ofc!)

    Edit: I’m not sure what your french text means but I reckon it’s relating knights and suprisebuttsex somehow, so yea, totally confirmed. +1



  • Some of you complain about arrow travel time, have you actually ever shot a long bow or shortbow? Over a distance more then a couple of meters? The arrow is pretty slow.

    A compound bow shoots them faster and harder, however these are not exactly available…



  • @Toll:

    Some of you complain about arrow travel time, have you actually ever shot a long bow or shortbow? Over a distance more then a couple of meters? The arrow is pretty slow.

    A compound bow shoots them faster and harder, however these are not exactly available…

    Did you? I use to shoot for 100yards, with a cheap 28libs recurvebow. A 60-80libs warbow arrow travels definatly faster. If they’re thin and black / have black tiny feathers they can barely be seen at all. In fact, arrows in this game fly with trainingbow velocitiy.



  • i should make myself clearer, i dont think archers are “equal” they realistically can only be hit once or twice, and require alot mroe hits. but i do maintain that an archer that learns how to use his weapons speed can even the fight out in his favor. its like how a slower, but more menuverable car can often win a race, because its not always raw power that gives you the upper hand, its the handeling.

    as far as arrow speeds, i have nto fired a bow IRL (xbow yes) but ive watched archery comps before. i will say the arrows feel a bit slow in comparison to the rest of the movements in the game. i wont be sad if they arnt adjusted its just a feeling i have. and ic ould be wrong on this. i trust the devs will keep a speed that maintains fair gameplay.



  • @opticalshadow:

    i trust the devs will keep a speed that maintains fair gameplay.

    Well but it’s not atm. It is fine against noobs and for clearing up situations the enemy has already lost anyway, or for that random pressure that forces the enemy team to at least partially go for some own archers. However in competetive gameplay it sucks. E.g. I had a match against noxim. He would dodge 100% of all arrows with crouching and supersajan 360 jumps that turn his backshield to frontside while the arrow lands. Yes it’s that rediculous. A knight doesn’t even have to bring his shield up. Taking one for the back is enough to counter even good archres. Also you don’t need to random crouch. You can wait for the shot and watch the arrows path, if it’s aimed for the head or the feet, and THEN react properly up to very close range. Archery is a joke in highskilled gameplay imo.



  • @Escadin:

    @opticalshadow:

    i trust the devs will keep a speed that maintains fair gameplay.

    Well but it’s not atm. It is fine against noobs and for clearing up situations the enemy has already lost anyway, or for that random pressure that forces the enemy team to at least partially go for some own archers. However in competetive gameplay it sucks. E.g. I had a match against noxim. He would dodge 100% of all arrows with crouching and supersajan 360 jumps that turn his backshield to frontside while the arrow lands. Yes it’s that rediculous. A knight doesn’t even have to bring his shield up. Taking one for the back is enough to counter even good archres. Also you don’t need to random crouch. You can wait for the shot and watch the arrows path, if it’s aimed for the head or the feet, and THEN react properly up to very close range. Archery is a joke in highskilled gameplay imo.

    you have to remember that we havent had a patch yet, so the devs have not been able to adjust anything yet, i didnt exspect the game to be perfect at launch, there is going to be some balence changes. but the devs did really good with AoC, and i trust that in time CMW will work itself out. ill keep my opinions known but ill wait until we start getting patches before i start to lose faith if things go unfixed.



  • I myself also archery, tried to pick it up in real life but i got almost zero talent for it. :P
    If a game has a bow, i use it allot, i also was a bit disappointed by the archer system in the game. It’s mostly the aiming that doesnt stand out from throwing a javelin or axes/knives. We are getting a new crosshair or system with the upcoming patch. Btw, the sound of the string of the Warbow is really good, the rest, not so… With the Warbow it really feels like you are shooting that arrow.



  • @Necramonium:

    I myself also archery, tried to pick it up in real life but i got almost zero talent for it. :P
    If a game has a bow, i use it allot, i also was a bit disappointed by the archer system in the game. It’s mostly the aiming that doesnt stand out from throwing a javelin or axes/knives. We are getting a new crosshair or system with the upcoming patch. Btw, the sound of the string of the Warbow is really good, the rest, not so… With the Warbow it really feels like you are shooting that arrow.

    Talent means you still have fun, although you suck or just have a hard time and therefor never stop training. ^^
    And yea the game sounds are awesome, even the “cute” one for the short bow*^^



  • After all the advantages melees get with exploitbasedtechniques like combofeint, I finally found one for crossbows! If you watch way up before reloading the camera will just go down to your usual view, because it goes down by a static, not relative value. Additionally this makes your reloading animation look very funny.


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