Team Kills



  • So I did a quick search for this and surprisingly came up with nothing so if this or something like this has been posted already then apologies.

    I played AoC online with a mate for the first time, we come from South Africa and thus there are no servers here, so we had quite high ping. A large problem we began to notice was the amount of team killers… Now one can understand the odd accidental kill or two, I mean its not that difficult to accidently launch a crossbow bolt into your mates head when trying to hit the enemy. However we noticed several players deliberatly camping in spawn or otherwise chasing after team mates trying to kill them. Further more this was not an isolated case as more than at least 3 players on that single server where doing this.

    For the new game as a suggestion to avoid this painful and most annoying issue, I suggest similar devices to those of call of duty 4 should be implimented. For example, excessive team killing should automatically kick a player from the server, team killing in general should automatically kill the teamkiller.

    The issue is quite easily solved I just wantd to point out the fact that it is there and a system should be put in place to stop those ten year old kids that have nothing better to do than betray their teamies.



  • I have played on servers where this is a problem, and yes, it is annoying. So annoying, most people find different servers to play on.

    The problem with instantly killing a person for teamkilling is, what about those times where it IS an accident? And, despite how it looked, intentional team-killing is the rarer of the two types. I don’t want to aim an arrow, and fire, only to get killed because my ally ran in front of my shot at the last second (I have been on both sides of this).

    There should be a forgive/don’t forgive system. Someone teamkills you, you can forgive them or not. If you do forgive them, their score is not hurt, it doesn’t count that you have died, it would be like the teamkill never happened, save for the fact that you have to respawn. Admins can adjust this, of course, so that the score can take a negative impact, but it should not make a huge difference. If you don’t forgive the teamkill, it behaves like a regular teamkill. If a player has more that 3-5 unforgiven teamkills, then he is kicked from the server…if a player gains more than 5 forgiven teamkills, his/her score does start to be affected (Though the victim is never punished with extra deaths on their record), and after, say, 15-20 forgiven teamkills, the player is then treated like each teamkill is unforgiven.

    Server Admins can decide if they want to auto-kill for unforgiven teamkilling, but forgiven teamkilling should not be a penalty, or at least not a great penalty, for the teamkiller. It happens. There should be NO penalty for victims of teamkilling. It does not count towards their “Official” deaths, though there might e a stat tht tracks how many times they were teamkilled and whether or not it was forgiven or unforgiven. Same with the teamkiller. A player could look at another player’s stats, and look at their teamkills vs enemy kills, and determine if the player is a danger or an asset. It would be a useful anti-griefing tool.



  • Oh yeah, I remember how much I hated that when I first started playing AoC. I haven’t played on a server where I wasn’t an admin in ages. I’m all for including serverside options to handle that sort of thing, though. Would save me the getting bugged 5 times a day to kick TKers which I have to endure now.



  • You should have the option of forgiving/not forgiving the player. If you don’t forgive them, you should be able to choose their fate! :D (instant death, disable weapon damage, make mouse sensitivity low, disable sound, make them only able to use their fists, disable run, make vision blurry, make stamina recharge twice as slow, have your pick!) The chosen effect would stop as soon as they respawn, of course. ;) Maybe to be fair the more “mean” effects are “unlocked” after two previous people have not forgiven them…



  • That would end up causing another type of griefing. People who just can’t accept accidents abusing the system to unfairly punish someone. I’ve been unforgiven for teamkilling as an archer, when they walk into my shot right as or after I fire. Not much I can do, it was their fault, and they didn’t forgive me. Caused me to be kicked from a server.

    Besides, some of those are rather harsh. Where’s the fun in removing all weapon damage? That is just not fair. No one deserves that, even in they’ve teamkilled you. Blurred vision? If that happens to the one and only archer on your team, that puts your entire team at a disadvantage. Most of your suggested punishments gimp your team rather than just punish a TKer.

    Having some of those unlocked after multiple TKs is a bit better, but I still call it unfair. Just because someone may have griefed you (And it still could have been an accident, those happen far more often than people are willing to admit), that doesn’t mean you have the right to grief them back. That kind of power should only be available to the admin of the game.


  • Developer

    I’m pretty sure we’re just going to let players make you wear a dunce cap if you team kill them and they don’t forgive. That way they’re just humiliated and not necessarily holding the rest of their team back. Also the default option will be to forgive, so you only select punish if you feel its necessary… doing nothing is a forgive. We’ll also have some sort of trait or achievement for having 80% forgive or something. “Tibberius the Merciful” .

    We realize that TKing was one of the worst elements of aoc and will not be making that mistake again.



  • From my experience in AOC, forgive/not forgive systems just simply do not work. People are so sick of getting TKd purposefully or accidentally, they hit not forgive every time so as to get rid of the player. I’ve been frozen, timebombed and whatnot else for accidentally TKing and that’s even with apologising. Arguably, this would effect new players/slash users/ranged users more than actual teamkillers, which totally defeats the purpose. The forgive/not forgive system also doesn’t take in to account those who slash a teammate once, then slash another teammate, then another etc, which can be a rare issue on some occasions.

    I would rather opt for a points based system which accrues points for consecutive team attacks + additional points for an outright teamkill (Max > 0 health) as well as deducts points for consecutive enemy kills, then issues a temporary ban when the limit is reached. Had this method on my server for over a year and worked wonders when an admin wasn’t present.

    Vote kick is another possible solution, which allows players who see purposeful teamkilling to initiate a vote on a teamkiller and a majority to have a say on whether the player is removed from the server.

    Any further suggestions or ideas how to tackle this would appreciated, bearing in mind it would have to be up to the server administrator to enable/disable the system at their discretion. Then we’ll look at how to tackle it.



  • @Ajax
    I was mostly kidding about this, but I think I saw a system like this on a server once…

    @Martin
    I think both the vote ban and the point system should be used.



  • I agree, that seems like the best kind of system for it.

    Perhaps add an extra temporary moniker to players that team attack/teamkill a lot? Like Brandr the Sot or Edward the Cruel? That way players and admins can see who might be a problem when they join, and can keep an eye on them to make sure they don’t keep attacking teammates. After they score enough points against the enemy (Perhaps double the points they got for their teamhits?) the moniker goes away, and their regular moniker comes back. That way if somebody is just being a jackass for a couple days, he can earn his way to play the game without being watched again.



  • Now one can understand the odd accidental kill or two, I mean its not that difficult to accidently launch a crossbow bolt into your mates head when trying to hit the enemy. However we noticed several players deliberatly camping in spawn or otherwise chasing after team mates trying to kill them. Further more this was not an isolated case as more than at least 3 players on that single server where doing this.

    wooo’ that is really odd! … you cant just accidentally launch a crossbow in your mates… it must be planned or something…

    “Take things as they are. Punch with x large sap glove when you have to punch. Kick when you have to kick.”



  • wooo’ that is really odd! … you cant just accidentally launch a crossbow in your mates… it must be planned or something…

    Yes you easily can by accident, if then run right in front of you… :o



  • …Teamkills end, if the server is set with a “reflective damage point”

    …when you begin to die one, two, three times, after people pay attention when try to hit an enemy and have near allies…

    ciauz^^,
    Jab



  • Totally agreeing with Jab, and this idea + TK-nickname idea + voteban + forgive/forget system should imho solve the problem. More of that, admin should be able to enable/disable all mentioned options.

    Cheers



  • Team killing is a part of realism, and i don’t think teamkiller must be kicked or die after teamkilling someone, or anything like that. Maybe a loss of points or experience, but TeamKilling is a part of realism and tactics. If an archer try to aim an enemy, he must watchout and will learn to play much better (See for example America’s Army, a game where the TK is always ON, the players are very good and work in team carfully because they know that they must play carfully, and it’s much more exciting).



  • Falheim, I agree that teamkilling does add another level of intensity or even skill to the game, and I don’t think anyone is suggesting it be removed altogether.
    There are accidental TKs and purposeful TKs and I believe this discussion is focusing on the latter.
    Reflective FF worked well in M&B Warband and I think it could be a nice option for Chivalry.
    Martin’s point system idea sounds very complex but also very fair.



  • “The problem with instantly killing a person for teamkilling is, what about those times where it IS an accident? And, despite how it looked, intentional team-killing is the rarer of the two types. I don’t want to aim an arrow, and fire, only to get killed because my ally ran in front of my shot at the last second (I have been on both sides of this).”

    The problem with your view is that you think accidents are o.k. I would be ok with a 2 minute jail time for killing a teammate, accident or not it will teach people to be more careful… in melee combat with no penalty for killing teammates, you will have too many people perimeter swinging with their long swords and not giving a shit if they take a teammates head off. There has to be a punishment system for being reckless and definitely needs to be a 3 strikes and you’re out system in place.

    I refuse to play on a server that is o.k with people making mistakes… think of it as actually being in a medieval war. TBH if I saw someone kill a mate, I would tie them up and throw them in the tent and keep them there until we either lost or went back to the keep to properly punish the betrayer ;)



  • Personally I liked BF2’s forgive/punish system, as it lowered the offending players points (but not his teams scores/lives) for any team kill, and a punish tripled the effect. Servers had an auto kick set at around -12 points (kills etc were only 1 point, and you lost about 6-10 for a team kill, so repeat offenders were booted (not banned) quite quickly).

    Not sure how the points system works (only saw this today), but if it supports a personal score (EXP or something to that effect) and a team score (overall lives, time on King of the hill clock/objective type stuff), then I can’t see a problem in punishing only the team killers points, and leave it up to the players to decide whether they punish (default action is forgive), as it has no extra negative effect on his team apart from the death. Something that helped a great deal was the comma rose, and with it the option to quickly say ‘sorry’ (both with voice and text) without resorting to typing it out.



  • Uh, I do believe FF is on for teamkilling bros. It is part of EVERY fps game to include teamkilling. Makes it more enjoyable and entertaining. The punishing module is complete shit in my opinion. If you get tk’d, then it’s truly too bad so sad. Destiny my friend.



  • @Saint:

    Uh, I do believe FF is on for teamkilling bros. It is part of EVERY fps game to include teamkilling. Makes it more enjoyable and entertaining. The punishing module is complete shit in my opinion. If you get tk’d, then it’s truly too bad so sad. Destiny my friend.

    Isn’t FF on to add realism, so archers don’t hide directly behind their soldiers and shoot through them, or just fire willy nilly into a melee. And also so you pay attention to what you whack in a melee, I think the least intended part of any FF system is so you can grief your own team.


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