Major balance issues and broken mechanics



  • The classes in this game are quite broken, in terms of running and speed and the amount of damage they can give and take. The most broken are probably the Seargent and the longbowmen/crossbowman.

    The seargent, even though it is a heavily armored melee class can run the fastest in the game. I think that its fine to be able to outrun the heavy infantry classes, but to be able to chase down ranged classes is completely broken. The classes such as the longbowmen, crossbowmen, and even the spearman are way too slow. these classes are the most lightly armored in the game, so obviously they should be able to run the fastest.

    You can argue that their damage output validates their slowness but this really isn’t true. In fact most shots from the long bow will not kill in one hit, not even on hardcore servers they won’t, and neither does the crossbow, the crossbow class is probably the worst class in the game because its much harder to aim and can’t reload while moving.

    Even hitting a target proves to be over-challenging because of the inability to track your projectiles and then there’s also the strafe-spamming that melee classes use, which is essentially running around in serpentine pattern to get into melee range. This is probably the most broken part of this game, pretty much an exploit. Counterstrike source uses a cvar called “sv_accelerate” and it is set to a very low variable, usually 5, which makes it so that the acceleration of running isn’t instant, which eliminates strafe spamming as a dodging tactic. TF2 has its sv_accelerate value set to 10, which allows for strafe spamming.

    So I think that the sv_accelerate value should be set much lower, probably 5 or less, so players have to use a shield to get into melee range.

    Summary: Players should not be penalized for choosing a specific class, ranged classes should output higher damage and/or be able to outrun melee classes, and the running acceleration value should be lowered so players can’t strafe spam to get into melee range. Small ranged projectiles such as crossbow bolts or longbow arrows need to be easier to track, I would suggest adding a larger sprite trail to it so you can more easily see where it goes



  • @bitpanther:

    AoC

    this is why they’re making a new game, bro



  • Funny post. Reminds me of the aoc forums… I miss them…


  • Developer

    This is something many archer players brought up a lot, but the thing is, there has to be a class in the game that is faster than the archer. Why? So that the archer cannot shoot and run, shoot and run constantly without fear of his opponents. We need to have a harassing class that is a danger to the archer, this class is easy for the archer to kill, but the archer must be wary of him because he cannot escape against him so easily. In Chivalry, the Man-at-Arms will fulfill this role and will remain faster than the archer for that reason. The rest of the things that you mention are very valid critiques and we will do all we can to improve the ranged to melee balance for the new game.



  • i agree with the fact that “strafe spamming” as you call it is a broken mechanic of the game. But its not as easy as just pressing the “A” key or the “D” key you have to actually be moving forward while moving the mouse side to side which is hard to do when finally up close to the archer and trying to hit him without getting hit in the face.
    Also not every class has a shield so in AOC i think it’s only fair for classes like guardsman who dos not have a shield, is light armored and is slow to be able to dodge arrows in such a manor.
    Even so, i still expect the “strafe spamming” or zig-zagging to be done away with in the new game because like you said it seems broken.



  • On the speed strafing issue, I’ve done a lot of speed testing in both AOC and CMW. A major flaw in the source engine (not just AOC) is that rotating your mouse actually increases your speed when moving forward. This is not the case in the UDK, and you actually slow down slightly if move your mouse left to right and vice versa in quick succession. In Age of Chivalry, you could achieve speeds in excess of 1.5x the class speed limit by shaking your mouse, and I’ve seen people accuse others of speed hacking when sprinting, but it’s just a flaw.



  • The system in which “strafe-spamming” would not be allowed would inevitably have to be compensated by every single class having a shield. In AOC, it is extremely hard to kill archers as a Guardsman (its my favorite class), or other class without a shield, such as heavy-knight. However, the “strafe-spamming” compensates for it by allowing me to strategically, although unrealistically, to sometimes dodge arrows. However, the Guardsman is rather slow and it is very difficult to do it, but never the less, the “strafe-spamming” is a good compensation. In CMW, if “Strafe-spamming” were to be taken out, then classes such as footmen with no shield will HAVE to have a shield (of coarse it will have to be in the secondary slot, as a shield equipped with a halberd will be sort of unfair), along side an axe or other crude weapon in the opposite hand. This must be so because, according to the section in the website on classes, no class can completely overwhelm the footman, he is able to hold his ground against ANY class (though not EXCEL at it). If the strafe-spamming system were to be taken out and no shield be given in the secondary weapon slot as compensation, then the halberd wielding footman would be completely helpless, thus breaking with the word printed on the website in the section on classes. Of coarse, if the implementation of a shield in the secondary weapon slot of the footman is seen as an overpowered class, there could possibly be an advanced system of mechanics that allows one to dodge arrows, thou I can imagine it may take considerable skill. In many Medieval stories I have read, sometimes the warrior catches spears wilst they are hurling toward him in midair. This would also be a good compensation, but of coarse, would take a considerable amount of skill.


  • Developer

    We have a different movement system, it is still possible to evade incoming enemy missles if you are paying attention and skilled, it’s just no longer an abuse of the system as it was in aoc. On top of that you have the option to dodge built right in, so you can avoid enemy projectiles with skill and by playing the game we intend you to this time around. Shields help of course, but don’t want you guys thinking everyone without a shield is always going to be complete arrow fodder.



  • Ah, Thank You Mr. Tibberius, i’m not sure about everyone else, but you’re response sure has satisfied me :). At least un-shielded classes will have a way to not completely be overwhelmed by the archer, and like you said, it takes a lot of attention and skill. I certainly have no such skill but hey, it is a very satisfying compensation, basing the difference between life or death on the users skill, sounds fair to me. Thanks :).



  • Serg seems to hit further than usual at times, I cannot put my finger on it, but 55/90 ping is the worst. maa stab spin is usually how players fight a serg. Perhaps a slice sader. I dunno, haven’t really played serg since I got a wireless modem and my computer messed up, before that I only played it a few times

    Archers/xbow are support and can be really annoying. Their sword weapon switch is instant and will throw players off for a while… But yeah, you can either +forward and zig zag or shield to them. Shielding will slow you down and they can just wait to shoot… But they’ve gotta hit. It’s so slow when shielding that it’s just difficult to do anything



  • No offense bitpanther, but it sounds like your biggest problem is lack of play time. A skilled archer have no problems hitting his target.



  • I have had little issue with hitting targets or tracking my projectiles in most cases, except on maps like Battlegrounds, where I am aiming at distances over 35 meters. I’m not even a really good archer. Do I miss a lot? Yeah. That’s why I’m not a very good archer. XD But I’ve seen archers without aimbots be able to hit players consistantly at distances of over 50 meters. They seem to have no problem.

    And the sargeant hitting at a longer distance than he should, that’s an issue with all classes, and, in fact, an issue with the Source Engine in general. Zombie Panic! Source has the same problem. So does Counterstrike and Day of Defeat. The only game I’ve played that doesn’t seem to have this issue as much is HL2DM, and that’s not a melee focus game, and they do their damage differently.

    Either way, most of the issues you’re complaining about are either nonissues, or things that are being fixed for C:MW. Just wait, and you’ll be pleasantly surprised, I think.



  • You definatly dont want all classes to run around with shields, they have other advantages such as long reach, high damage, heavy armor ect. just think about that before you pick guardsman when there are a lot of range classes on the opposite side.



  • Yes, that’s true. But serg is by far the worst IMO. But yeah, that’s how the engine is built, frames per second is horrible, latency is a complete joke, latency netcode isn’t so hot… UDK probably makes it better, but the InterwebZ will take decades to change. If not longer. It won’t be fixed in my lifetime, that’s for sure.



  • @IceIYIaN:

    It won’t be fixed in my lifetime, that’s for sure.

    That’s what they said about going to the moon and the invention of the interwebz! D:



  • @bitpanther:

    The classes in this game are quite broken, in terms of running and speed and the amount of damage they can give and take. The most broken are probably the Seargent and the longbowmen/crossbowman.

    The seargent, even though it is a heavily armored melee class can run the fastest in the game. I think that its fine to be able to outrun the heavy infantry classes, but to be able to chase down ranged classes is completely broken. The classes such as the longbowmen, crossbowmen, and even the spearman are way too slow. these classes are the most lightly armored in the game, so obviously they should be able to run the fastest.

    You can argue that their damage output validates their slowness but this really isn’t true. In fact most shots from the long bow will not kill in one hit, not even on hardcore servers they won’t, and neither does the crossbow, the crossbow class is probably the worst class in the game because its much harder to aim and can’t reload while moving.

    Even hitting a target proves to be over-challenging because of the inability to track your projectiles and then there’s also the strafe-spamming that melee classes use, which is essentially running around in serpentine pattern to get into melee range. This is probably the most broken part of this game, pretty much an exploit. Counterstrike source uses a cvar called “sv_accelerate” and it is set to a very low variable, usually 5, which makes it so that the acceleration of running isn’t instant, which eliminates strafe spamming as a dodging tactic. TF2 has its sv_accelerate value set to 10, which allows for strafe spamming.

    So I think that the sv_accelerate value should be set much lower, probably 5 or less, so players have to use a shield to get into melee range.

    Summary: Players should not be penalized for choosing a specific class, ranged classes should output higher damage and/or be able to outrun melee classes, and the running acceleration value should be lowered so players can’t strafe spam to get into melee range. Small ranged projectiles such as crossbow bolts or longbow arrows need to be easier to track, I would suggest adding a larger sprite trail to it so you can more easily see where it goes

    I dont think anything you’ve said in your post is a valid critique of the game. Honestly i just think you have not played enough.



  • One year old topic, locked.


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