A response to those with Archer Issues



  • Hi everyone,

    I’m copying a response I made to those who are very frustrated with the current state of archers, from the thread “Stop b*tching about archers!”. I’ve gotten some nice feedback from it.

    This is a long, but informative positive post to help lessen the amount of rage and complaining we get from people in game.

    Contents Of Post

    The first part concerning the archer class itself.
    1. Should we have archers in this game?
    2. Are archers actually even useful?
    3. Are archers over powered?

    The second part will be concerning bad archers.
    1. Should we rage at these players?
    2. What can we do about them?

    –---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey guys,

    I’d like to clear up a few of the concerns we’re seeing repeatedly in this thread.

    To begin, I’d like to start with my credentials.

    I’ve played 40 hours in to this game so far, with 80% of that time playing an archer. I have been told over two dozen times that I’m the best archer they have encountered in this game so far, and personally have only encountered a few that are on par with my level. I’m not trying to flaunt around nor be cocky. However, take my word for it that I know what I’m talking about and am very effective as an archer.

    I’d like to split this post up in to two parts.
    The first part concerning the archer class itself.
    1. Should we have archers in this game?
    2. Are archers actually even useful?
    3. Are archers over powered?

    The second part will be concerning bad archers.
    1. Should we rage at these players?
    2. What can we do about them?

    1. Should we have archers in this game?

    This game is not called Melee Chivalry: Medieval Warfare, but merely Chivalry: Medieval Warfare. The developers aim was to bring us a realistic Medieval combat game, which includes the ever present archers in historic Medieval warfare. They are in the game, and there is no point of even pressing to get that changed. I for one am very happy the archers decided to put them in the game, as it drastically increases the dynamics of the game. Taking the game from just a straight forward kill what’s in your face, to a game where you have to think more about positioning and what’s going on in the entire battlefield.

    That being said, it’s 100% understandable that players wish to only have the melee combat experience. Which is why those players simply need to make or join a server that has stated in the title “NO Archers!”. Just as we have with the “1v1 Dueling server/Respect 1v1s”. If a player does not follow the server rules, then they’ll be vote kicked just as they would in the dueling servers.

    2. Are archers actually even useful?

    Absolutely! In the right hands, the archer(s) have the biggest impact on a game. Depending which game mode of course. In FFA, the archers hardly ever do well. However in last team standing or any objective game modes, they have the potential to have the greatest effect. However, this is a team game. A lone archer by itself will not fare well by himself. You have to consider your positioning at all times, and understand what you should be aiming at. In objective game modes, the archers will be just a few feet back from their Knights, Vanguards, MAA’s putting out as much damage as possible to push the enemy back or to repel/damage oncoming players. With a perfect archer and support, it is nearly impossible to take certain game objectives such as catapults and or busting down the gate walls on certain maps.

    3. Are archers over powered?

    An archer by himself has the potential to have such a huge impact on the game, many would claim the class to be broken, op, or should just be removed all together. The thing about the archer, is that it’s a class that must be dealt with. And there certainly are ways to deal with them! The common idea people float is just switch to Knights, which really doesn’t appease most and is understandable. What you have to realize is there are classes that are more effective vs certain classes and vice versa. This certainly does not mean it is impossible to overcome them though.

    Let’s start with talking about the Vangaurd which so many people have an issue with in the archer discussion. For those that don’t know, with the warbow and bodkins on the archer it takes 2 shots to the upper body or 1 shot in the head to kill a Vangaurd. And for good reason! The first being, and if you have ever played an archer you can relate, it is very difficult to hit things with the archer. Even being just steps behind who you’re shooting at in combat, you must be very precise to hit at a consistent rate. Getting a head shot in this game is like getting a 360 no scope for you call of duty kids. It is very rare and more of a OMG moment when it does happen. It’s literally like trying to shoot pixels on your screen. That being said, there are very great archers in the game that are able to do just that very consistently. The second point being, archers are meant to be counter to Vangaurds. It is not impossible whatsoever though to kill an archer as a Vangaurd. You’ve got to understand, you can not run in straight line to a skilled archer. You can not even run diagonally to an archer that is skilled. If you were playing a fps, and someone had a rocket launcher would you try to juke or go give him high five as fast as possible? One of my friends that I play with a lot plays almost solely Vangaurd. Whenever he sees me and attempts to kill me, he quite literally takes his mouse and acts like he’s washing his car on his mouse pad! It sounds hilarious, but it is nearly impossible to hit a player that employs these kinds of mechanics. They are mechanics you must employ in order to succeed though.

    Considering the length of this post already, I don’t have much to say about MAA’s and Knights other than they are in a good place vs. archers. Knights, being the tanks of the game, take about 4-5 maybe 6 shots to kill (no sure what the real # is) and MAA’s take I believe 3 when using Bodkins which what you should be using.

    And finally archer vs. archer. This is simply a situation where you have to realize whether you are a more effective archer than your opponent archers. If you see and understand your better, than the majority of time you won’t pay them any mind unless you get obvious clear shots. However, if you know that you are the underdog then you will have a better impact on the game and help your team by switching to broad heads and camping the enemy archer.

    To close with this section, I"ll say the archer in relation to the MAA are the most skill based classes in this game. It is very difficult to use the archer effectively, but when you have a great player he is going to make a huge impact if not dealt with properly.

    Part 2-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bad Archers
    1. Should we rage at these players?
    Guys, it is inevitable in any game. You are going to have good players, and bad players. I can attest myself it is extremely frustrating to be team killed when you’re in the heat of the battle by an archer.
    Two points here:
    Firstly, you have to understand with a good archer such as myself, I may end up tk 2-3 people in a 3 hour gaming session. The initial and common response is to be upset, but what you have to realize is for that 1 arrow that killed you, the same archer has put dozens of arrows, whether they be the final blow or just damage on the enemy team. For the amount of damage they’re putting out, I can attest that it is worth taking the risk with an excellent archer of firing in to crowded areas. ( On a side note, simply raging in a playful manner is perfectly okay. Saying, ughh I hate you lol or what not is just pointing out the players skill and how you’re going to rip his face off if you ever get close to him haha )
    Point 2: With bad players, you have to understand and realize that everyone starts off bad. These players are not trying to make you rage or piss you off but merely learn the class and have fun. The question we have to think about it, is how do we react to this?

    2. What can we do about them?

    As in real life, the best we can do is to give them constructive criticism. Let them know they shouldn’t be standing 1 mile away volley shots at the opponents. Tell them they need to be shooting the objective and not random archers hiding in trees. This is much more effective them telling they’re a noob and should probably uninstall. Please guys. PLEASE. Do not turn this game in to the league of legends community. Act like adults, and be mature about it. Help people out, and if they’re consistently tking just tell them we need more knights up on the front line and ask if they’ll switch haha.

    After writing this, I’m considering on writing a guide on the forums to help out people wanting to learn how to properly play and be effective as archers. That way hopefully we can turn around this string of, and I quote, “80% of archers are BAD”. Let’s work together to turn this around. If enough people have interest, let me know and I’ll work on putting a guide up.



  • You either have a knack for it, or you’re not meant for it.

    I am a good archer and don’t share your feelings on the issue at hand. I say everyone that I kill and moans about archers can blow me and then find a way to avoid me. I also say that bad archers that honestly cannot fathom why they are constantly being yelled at for team killing from a mile away are the basis to bring back public hangings. You really can’t teach them, they should play something else.

    Honestly. Don’t try to make people better archers - they either are, or aren’t.



  • @Silvertongue:

    Hi everyone,

    I’m copying a response I made in the thread “Stop b*tching about archers!”. I’ve gotten some good feedback from it, and think it will help clean up our community if we we understand the mechanics behind archers and why people have a problem with them and what we can do about it.

    Also, as stated near the end of the post, I’m considering writing a guide on archers. You guys let me know if it’s something you’d be interested in. Thanks :)

    –---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hey guys,

    I’d like to clear up a few of the concerns we’re seeing repeatedly in this thread.

    To begin, I’d like to start with my credentials.

    I’ve played 40 hours in to this game so far, with 80% of that time playing an archer. I have been told over two dozen times that I’m the best archer they have encountered in this game so far, and personally have only encountered a few that are on par with my level. I’m not trying to flaunt around nor be cocky. However, take my word for it that I know what I’m talking about and am very effective as an archer.

    I’d like to split this post up in to two parts.
    The first part concerning the archer class itself.
    1. Should we have archers in this game?
    2. Are archers actually even useful?
    3. Are archers over powered?

    The second part will be concerning bad archers.
    1. Should we rage at these players?
    2. What can we do about them?

    1. Should we have archers in this game?

    This game is not called Melee Chivalry: Medieval Warfare, but merely Chivalry: Medieval Warfare. The developers aim was to bring us a realistic Medieval combat game, which includes the ever present archers in historic Medieval warfare. They are in the game, and there is no point of even pressing to get that changed. I for one am very happy the archers decided to put them in the game, as it drastically increases the dynamics of the game. Taking the game from just a straight forward kill what’s in your face, to a game where you have to think more about positioning and what’s going on in the entire battlefield.

    That being said, it’s 100% understandable that players wish to only have the melee combat experience. Which is why those players simply need to make or join a server that has stated in the title “NO Archers!”. Just as we have with the “1v1 Dueling server/Respect 1v1s”. If a player does not follow the server rules, then they’ll be vote kicked just as they would in the dueling servers.

    2. Are archers actually even useful?

    Absolutely! In the right hands, the archer(s) have the biggest impact on a game. Depending which game mode of course. In FFA, the archers hardly ever do well. However in last team standing or any objective game modes, they have the potential to have the greatest effect. However, this is a team game. A lone archer by itself will not fare well by himself. You have to consider your positioning at all times, and understand what you should be aiming at. In objective game modes, the archers will be just a few feet back from their Knights, Vanguards, MAA’s putting out as much damage as possible to push the enemy back or to repel/damage oncoming players. With a perfect archer and support, it is nearly impossible to take certain game objectives such as catapults and or busting down the gate walls on certain maps.

    3. Are archers over powered?

    An archer by himself has the potential to have such a huge impact on the game, many would claim the class to be broken, op, or should just be removed all together. The thing about the archer, is that it’s a class that must be dealt with. And there certainly are ways to deal with them! The common idea people float is just switch to Knights, which really doesn’t appease most and is understandable. What you have to realize is there are classes that are more effective vs certain classes and vice versa. This certainly does not mean it is impossible to overcome them though.

    Let’s start with talking about the Vangaurd which so many people have an issue with in the archer discussion. For those that don’t know, with the warbow and bodkins on the archer it takes 2 shots to the upper body or 1 shot in the head to kill a Vangaurd. And for good reason! The first being, and if you have ever played an archer you can relate, it is very difficult to hit things with the archer. Even being just steps behind who you’re shooting at in combat, you must be very precise to hit at a consistent rate. Getting a head shot in this game is like getting a 360 no scope for you call of duty kids. It is very rare and more of a OMG moment when it does happen. It’s literally like trying to shoot pixels on your screen. That being said, there are very great archers in the game that are able to do just that very consistently. The second point being, archers are meant to be counter to Vangaurds. It is not impossible whatsoever though to kill an archer as a Vangaurd. You’ve got to understand, you can not run in straight line to a skilled archer. You can not even run diagonally to an archer that is skilled. If you were playing a fps, and someone had a rocket launcher would you try to juke or go give him high five as fast as possible? One of my friends that I play with a lot plays almost solely Vangaurd. Whenever he sees me and attempts to kill me, he quite literally takes his mouse and acts like he’s washing his car on his mouse pad! It sounds hilarious, but it is nearly impossible to hit a player that employs these kinds of mechanics. They are mechanics you must employ in order to succeed though.

    Considering the length of this post already, I don’t have much to say about MAA’s and Knights other than they are in a good place vs. archers. Knights, being the tanks of the game, take about 4-5 maybe 6 shots to kill (no sure what the real # is) and MAA’s take I believe 3 when using Bodkins which what you should be using.

    And finally archer vs. archer. This is simply a situation where you have to realize whether you are a more effective archer than your opponent archers. If you see and understand your better, than the majority of time you won’t pay them any mind unless you get obvious clear shots. However, if you know that you are the underdog then you will have a better impact on the game and help your team by switching to broad heads and camping the enemy archer.

    To close with this section, I"ll say the archer in relation to the MAA are the most skill based classes in this game. It is very difficult to use the archer effectively, but when you have a great player he is going to make a huge impact if not dealt with properly.

    Part 2-----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bad Archers
    1. Should we rage at these players?
    Guys, it is inevitable in any game. You are going to have good players, and bad players. I can attest myself it is extremely frustrating to be team killed when you’re in the heat of the battle by an archer.
    Two points here:
    Firstly, you have to understand with a good archer such as myself, I may end up tk 2-3 people in a 3 hour gaming session. The initial and common response is to be upset, but what you have to realize is for that 1 arrow that killed you, the same archer has put dozens of arrows, whether they be the final blow or just damage on the enemy team. For the amount of damage they’re putting out, I can attest that it is worth taking the risk with an excellent archer of firing in to crowded areas. ( On a side note, simply raging in a playful manner is perfectly okay. Saying, ughh I hate you lol or what not is just pointing out the players skill and how you’re going to rip his face off if you ever get close to him haha )
    Point 2: With bad players, you have to understand and realize that everyone starts off bad. These players are not trying to make you rage or piss you off but merely learn the class and have fun. The question we have to think about it, is how do we react to this?

    2. What can we do about them?

    As in real life, the best we can do is to give them constructive criticism. Let them know they shouldn’t be standing 1 mile away volley shots at the opponents. Tell them they need to be shooting the objective and not random archers hiding in trees. This is much more effective them telling they’re a noob and should probably uninstall. Please guys. PLEASE. Do not turn this game in to the league of legends community. Act like adults, and be mature about it. Help people out, and if they’re consistently tking just tell them we need more knights up on the front line and ask if they’ll switch haha.

    After writing this, I’m considering on writing a guide on the forums to help out people wanting to learn how to properly play and be effective as archers. That way hopefully we can turn around this string of, and I quote, “80% of archers are BAD”. Let’s work together to turn this around. If enough people have interest, let me know and I’ll work on putting a guide up.

    You must have never used a forum before.
    TL/DR



  • You must have never used a forum before.
    TL/DR

    A forum is for presenting information as well as for discussion and debate. Posting this does not contribute whatsoever so please either post something worthwhile or don’t post at all.



  • viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5484

    There is no need to ban archers form this game or rage against them as they are a part of the game until the devs decide they aren’t anymore. Anyhow, a dev’s statement on this subject and their future plans for archery would be really helpful.
    If you want to get behind most of the extreme opinions about archers, just try to imagine why a flamethread like “stop bitching about archers” gets more attention than a proper comment.



  • @Martin:

    You must have never used a forum before.
    TL/DR

    A forum is for presenting information as well as for discussion and debate. Posting this does not contribute whatsoever so please either post something worthwhile or don’t post at all.

    I’m sorry, but a little more concise post would be much more helpful. Maybe a better presentation with bolded parts etc… I don’t get paid for reading stuff, so I’m sure that my perspective on super long thread starters would be different than yours. And if I’m mistaken and the post is completely awesome, I apologize.
    But I’m sure a lot of users would agree with me that this was too long a thread starter.
    Or so I think…



  • The archer class itself isn’t OP, what’s OP is just the warbow. With it, instead of being a support the archer turns into a ranged carry. On pubs you can get just as many kills as other classes, while barely dying (really, unless its FFA there’s no excuse for 10+ deaths).

    The only reason people aren’t up in arms against it is that every archer possible is terrible. Like, as bad as it gets, I sometimes wonder if these guys are disabled or whatever. The arrow isn’t as slow as people make it out to be, the drop is barely noticeable and targets are pretty slow with momentum… so leading and predicting shots is not hard at all. Not to mention that in most maps you have infinite ammo to spam arrows around.



  • Acrh2,

    Thank you for your second post ;) ,

    I rearranged the introduction slightly to give people a better idea of what the lengthy post is about.



  • @negocromn:

    The only reason people aren’t up in arms against it is that every archer possible is terrible. Like, as bad as it gets, I sometimes wonder if these guys are disabled or whatever. The arrow isn’t as slow as people make it out to be, the drop is barely noticeable and targets are pretty slow with momentum… so leading and predicting shots is not hard at all. Not to mention that in most maps you have infinite ammo to spam arrows around.

    I’d say this is a bit of a contradicting statement. If it were as easy to hit people as you say, then “every archer possible” wouldn’t be terrible. It takes a lot of skill to play the archer effectively, through map awareness, positioning, and general ability to hit targets in an instant.

    In relation to my original post, it’s as I said. If the enemy team is doing their job, then the archer will not be overwhelmingly effective. However, if you have an exceptional archer who knows what he’s doing, and the team doesn’t respond to that threat, then he will easily rip through the enemy team.

    It’s kind of like helicopters in BF3. If you have guys with rockets constantly beaming them down, or jets taking them out, then it’s really not going to be a problem. However, if you don’t care and just keep sticking your nose in to the objective, then the helicopter is going blow you up along with the rest of your squad indefinitely.

    For these reasons I think the archer and the War bow is in a good place right now.



  • First let me say that I read your post and thought that you laid out your points very well. It seems to me the larger issue is what difference does it make if people have an issue with archers or not? This isn’t the first post to discuss peoples feelings towards the archer class and it seems to me that either folks will realize what value (if any) the archer class brings or they won’t.

    Is it up to you OP or others to convince others of what is contributed by the archers class? Are folks that play archer truly that surprised when folks have long hate filled vitriolic rants towards them? Sometimes classes are not popular, that’s just the nature of the world you can’t make everyone happy all the time. If you enjoy archer than have fun playing archer, people will say whatever they’re going to say but really what does it matter to that player?

    My personal feelings on archers in this game is “meh” while I don’t hate them I don’t love them either. I’m tired of coming on here and seeing propaganda trying to convince me of how much I should like them. I don’t see posts like this for knights or VG’s just archers, people saying “see guys this is why we’re great.” I feel like if that class was as great as the proponents say they are I wouldn’t need to be convinced or told about it.

    TL,DR: If you enjoy the class of archer get your satisfaction from playing it and stop caring about the qq’s in chat.



  • It’s because the game does so well in the melee area, better than any other game I have played.

    It’s also very competitive which makes melee players feel the need to prove themselves to the other guy with a sword. Problem is when you get shot by an arrow while attacking this guy it is a very very disappointing way to die.

    It sucks, that’s all there is to it.

    I believe there was talk of a class restriction being implemented in a future patch, I think this is all we need. 0 archer servers to keep most melee players happy.



  • @Blade:

    First let me say that I read your post and thought that you laid out your points very well. It seems to me the larger issue is what difference does it make if people have an issue with archers or not? This isn’t the first post to discuss peoples feelings towards the archer class and it seems to me that either folks will realize what value (if any) the archer class brings or they won’t.

    Is it up to you OP or others to convince others of what is contributed by the archers class? Are folks that play archer truly that surprised when folks have long hate filled vitriolic rants towards them? Sometimes classes are not popular, that’s just the nature of the world you can’t make everyone happy all the time. If you enjoy archer than have fun playing archer, people will say whatever they’re going to say but really what does it matter to that player?

    My personal feelings on archers in this game is “meh” while I don’t hate them I don’t love them either. I’m tired of coming on here and seeing propaganda trying to convince me of how much I should like them. I don’t see posts like this for knights or VG’s just archers, people saying “see guys this is why we’re great.” I feel like if that class was as great as the proponents say they are I wouldn’t need to be convinced or told about it.

    TL,DR: If you enjoy the class of archer get your satisfaction from playing it and stop caring about the qq’s in chat.

    In the end, it doesn’t matter what people think. It’s just a game haha.

    Although, I do find it strange that despite not caring, and being “tired of coming on here and seeing propaganda trying to convince me of how much I should like them”, you bother to read an entire post about a response to people’s opinions on archers. And write another post about whether we should care, about caring about people caring lol :).

    Anyway, I think posts like these should just be kept inside your head. If you don’t want to read a particular article such as this, then don’t. Let those who are interested in it read it and post their ideas. Besides bug reports and new ideas, this General Discussion thread is people wanting to have a general friendly discussion about the aspects of the game.



  • @Reevezy:

    It’s because the game does so well in the melee area, better than any other game I have played.

    It’s also very competitive which makes melee players feel the need to prove themselves to the other guy with a sword. Problem is when you get shot by an arrow while attacking this guy it is a very very disappointing way to die.

    It sucks, that’s all there is to it.

    I believe there was talk of a class restriction being implemented in a future patch, I think this is all we need. 0 archer servers to keep most melee players happy.

    I completely agree with you on this one. It’s frustrating for sure, and having that option when creating the server would be great! But until that happens (and they get the major bugs patched first ^.^ ) my suggestion would be for people to just include in the title of their servers “No archers!” and vote kick anyone who doesn’t follow the rules as mentioned in the post.



  • The main purpose of the original post, was a response to those in another thread who constantly wine, cry, and complain in chat about archers in game. Whether they be good ones, or at bad ones. And attempt to keep a great gaming community, instead of a childish immature one.

    And also to see if there was any interest in the community for an archer guide for those who are wanting to learn how to play them in an effective matter.



  • @Silvertongue:

    I’d say this is a bit of a contradicting statement. If it were as easy to hit people as you say, then “every archer possible” wouldn’t be terrible. It takes a lot of skill to play the archer effectively, through map awareness, positioning, and general ability to hit targets in an instant.

    I can think of like 10 people in my last Clan in Darkfall Online that would have no problem being extremely effective as an archer. Our best player would no doubts maintain at least a 6+ KDR in public servers (mines probably around 4 to 5 this week).

    Any new game is flooded with terrible players at start, then in the next months they either quit or force themselves to improve. I’ll probably start dying a lot more in the future, or at least I hope so.

    @Silvertongue:

    For these reasons I think the archer and the War bow is in a good place right now.

    The War Bow is much stronger than any other weapon in the archer class, that’s not even up for debate. So, if it really is balanced atm, all the other class weapons are consequently underpowered.



  • I think we should have a 16v16 battle, one team of skilled archers and one of knights/vanguards and see who comes out on top.

    We’d (archers) would take you out before you even got half-way across the map. I’ve seen archers take down knights in 1v1 melee combat too.



  • Does that include 16 shortbow archers vs. 16 tower shield knights? ;)



  • Yeah haha… I’d put my money on the Knights lol. You gotta have some meat shields. Unless every archer has 124.7% accuracy and curve arrows ^.^

    As far as the state of the War bow goes, I really don’t think even slightly adjusting the values of bows will make a difference. You see in theory, The short bow is fast, low dmg, long is medium medium, and war bow is slow but heavy damage. In theory, the weapons are perfectly balanced. However, because the weapons are so hard to get a hit in the first place, you might as well use the war bow will do a ton more damage those few times you do hit.

    On a side note, I do occasionally use the short bow when I’m working when a vangaurd/Knight on Skype, so I can stun the guy he’s fighting constantly. However, in a normal game by yourself, because of the reasons above the War Bow is always every ones first choice.

    So in my opinion, it’s not really a design flaw, just players skill :)



  • @Silvertongue:

    Yeah haha… I’d put my money on the Knights lol. You gotta have some meat shields. Unless every archer has 124.7% accuracy and curve arrows ^.^

    As far as the state of the War bow goes, I really don’t think even slightly adjusting the values of bows will make a difference. You see in theory, The short bow is fast, low dmg, long is medium medium, and war bow is slow but heavy damage. In theory, the weapons are perfectly balanced. However, because the weapons are so hard to get a hit in the first place, you might as well use the war bow will do a ton more damage those few times you do hit.

    On a side note, I do occasionally use the short bow when I’m working when a vangaurd/Knight on Skype, so I can stun the guy he’s fighting constantly. However, in a normal game by yourself, because of the reasons above the War Bow is always every ones first choice.

    So in my opinion, it’s not really a design flaw, just players skill :)

    Doesn’t matter :D people demand a warbow nerf so it’s gone next patch anyways. However, I think you’re right and I don’t see the point of fast crossbows (yet slightly slower than bows) in this equation. It’s like Short bow: Fast /weak, light xbow: slightly less fast /weak. I’m not sure if the light xbows damange “advantage” changes anything on the amounts of hits targets take.



  • I used to think the longbow was superior to the shortbow, but I’m realizing they’re basically both support-only weapons. Most of the time, either a longbow or a shortbow will bring the person you hit into range of a 1 hit or 2 hit kill (for knights) that wouldn’t have been possible otherwise. The damage difference only really matters if you’re trying to kill someone solo - but in that case you’re always better off with the warbow (which I still stand by being overpowered compared to the other archer weapons, and most weapons in general), which will down anything but a knight in one headshot and a knight in 2 shots to the body - and body shots to any class but a knight brings them low enough to easily kill in one poke in melee, too. So, warbow for killing - shortbow for mobility and support. Longbow if you haven’t unlocked the warbow yet.


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