Two handed swords swinging.



  • Hi.

    I would like to make a suggestion.
    Two handed swords look very sluggish and slow to swing and stab. like you would be swinging a very very heavy maul or something similar. In reality two handed swords were just as fast as one handed and they were not that much heavier.
    I think it would be way better if two handed swords would swing with more speed, but would have longer times between swings.

    I think difference would be just cosmetic and wouldn’t affect gameplay much.



  • i feel you brother.

    but thats actually not needed, the 2handers are very fast for their range and im always suprised how fair the developers where in this case. thx tornbanner

    But i agree in the scenario with a knight vs a vanguard (both have one and half/greatswords) the knight does too much dmg on the vanguard or the vanguard does to low on the knight.

    Because knight has higher armor less dmging weapon, he should take as much hits as the lower armored higher dmgin armed vanguard. At the moment with overheads and stabs u need 2 for the vanguard with the bastards, while u need at least 3 with the greatswords for the knight.

    Now actually i wouldnt have a problem with it since the heavy knight is higher armored BUT he has the smaller and alot faster weaponry. i think this would make more sense if they would die of equal hits depending on the weapon they wear. (more for the claymore less for the zweihänder)



  • @Thorendir:

    …but thats actually not needed, the 2handers are very fast for their range and im always suprised how fair the developers where in this case. thx tornbanner…

    Oh if you knew how wrong you are :D

    The release times (=speed of the swing, as all overhead animations cover the same distance in degrees, same could be said about slashes) of 2h swords are the SLOWEST in the game. Halberd/greatsword/sword of war are on par with the MAUL(0.6s) (a weapon truly known for it’s speed! :D ) claymore is a bit faster(0.55s) but zwei, bardiche, longsword and messer(0.65s) are actually even slower than the maul!

    And I have to say to say it looks really awkward to see such slow moving weapons. If you turn against your own strike, slow weapons get ridiculously slow (seriously with that speed, no harm would be done even to unarmored people).

    I think it the combat would look much better with faster 2hers. Of course now one could complain that you remove tactics like blow delaying or accelerating this way.



  • I play as a vanguard with 2handed sword mostly and the speed is just fine.

    The opinion that 2handed swords like a greatsword or a claymore can be handled as easy as a 1handed sword is beyond reality…
    First of all,they don’t have the same weight or mass and even if they do their(2handed) volume is high and that makes it less controlable.There are some swords though that can be both 1 or 2handed but still I can’t see that in the game,because all 2handed are pure 2handed swords in this game as far as I know.

    If you do have or handled a 2handed sword IRL,you know what I’m talking about…



  • but thats actually not needed, the 2handers are very fast for their range and im always suprised how fair the developers where in this case. thx tornbanner

    But i agree in the scenario with a knight vs a vanguard (both have one and half/greatswords) the knight does too much dmg on the vanguard or the vanguard does to low on the knight.

    Because knight has higher armor less dmging weapon, he should take as much hits as the lower armored higher dmgin armed vanguard. At the moment with overheads and stabs u need 2 for the vanguard with the bastards, while u need at least 3 with the greatswords for the knight.

    I was thinking about swing speed purely from “cosmetic” view. I do think two handed weapons need a bit of balancing especially compared to some other vanguard-like weapons like halberd and billhook, but that’s another topic.
    The thing is that it just looks ridiculous when you swing your two handed sword. Like you would be swinging a very very large and heavy piece of metal. The actual velocity of the sword is so low that in reality damage to tissue would non-existent.
    Changes that i suggest would not change gameplay much, they would just make game more “real”.

    Oh if you knew how wrong you are

    The release times (=speed of the swing, as all overhead animations cover the same distance in degrees, same could be said about slashes) of 2h swords are the SLOWEST in the game. Halberd/greatsword/sword of war are on par with the MAUL(0.6s) (a weapon truly known for it’s speed! ) claymore is a bit faster(0.55s) but zwei, bardiche, longsword and messer(0.65s) are actually even slower than the maul!

    And I have to say to say it looks really awkward to see such slow moving weapons. If you turn against your own strike, slow weapons get ridiculously slow (seriously with that speed, no harm would be done even to unarmored people).

    I think it the combat would look much better with faster 2hers. Of course now one could complain that you remove tactics like blow delaying or accelerating this way.

    I really don’t know why people get the impression that two handed weapons (2h sword in this case) are slow and clumsy. IMO it makes sense that 2h sword is swung equally fast or just a little slower than 1h sword because you swing it with two hands (okay, there are some other things but anyway).
    IMO a good way to change two handers would be to make them much faster, but on the other they would have much lower rate of “swinging”. This would also eliminate slash spammers as you should be more careful when you attack while your attack would be much harder to block because of the faster swing time.

    Yeah some people would complain about delaying blows, but i find that tactic very unrealistic. I know balance>realism. But it really looks stupid.



  • @ falc if this is really true and ur not shitting us then wtf i always felt like all 2handers(vguard) are rather fast lot faster then knight weaponry (besides the smaller swords) but ok.

    Then this really needs a big fix.



  • you can check all numbers here, made by martin: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … TZnc#gid=1

    You get the impression of them being faster because of the shorter windup, that means the weapon is going faster into is “damaging state”. While wind up is VERY important for balance, release is not so much, because you can just turn your weapon into your enemy and it does damage. So changes to release would be mostly cosmetical, aside from “strike-delaying-to-bypass-parry”. That and I don’t like the mechanic of: I look into the ground, now my sword is 3-4 times as fast(overhead)! Now I look to the
    left and my slashes get super fast(slash)! …this…is…stupid. Really



  • Shorter release/recovery is still generally a good thing - it determines how quickly you can parry after an attack, or attack again, and release is also important in combo timings.



  • @BrutalBeaver:

    Hi.

    I would like to make a suggestion.
    Two handed swords look very sluggish and slow to swing and stab. like you would be swinging a very very heavy maul or something similar. In reality two handed swords were just as fast as one handed and they were not that much heavier.
    I think it would be way better if two handed swords would swing with more speed, but would have longer times between swings.

    I think difference would be just cosmetic and wouldn’t affect gameplay much.

    I must say that this would be an interesting idea, but I do think that spears should be quicker than swords indefinitely. I think it’s great the way it is right now tbh



  • The swinging of the 2H sword is slow, but it should not be touched. The reason why it is so slow is to balance the weapon. The range it currently has is very long, so by increasing the speed would make all 2H’s a melee heaven.

    Although I do believe that if they do decide to increase the speed, it should only be a fraction faster.
    It can get annoying when you’re versing a player that is solely focused on defense and tiring out the other player + he has a shield. This leads to frustratingly long battles and rarely rewarding due to the fact that by the time you’ve killed him, basically his whole team is on to you.



  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bV-L0w2JzI

    I vote for John Clements style swords play! 8-)



  • even tough it’s made of wood, and the guy is high on something, it clearly shows that the 2H swords should be made faster. Watch any medieval movie you want, and you’ll see all kind of weapons moving FAST



  • Training swords have about the same weigth as real swords, because…you want to train for real swords :D Of course wood has a lower density than most metals, but if you watch closely his sword has much more volume. If this sword was made out of steel it would be a club, not a sword (and a heavy one :D)



  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp9xjkOlM4o

    Here he goes with a real sword, not too much difference in speed :D



  • The combat in this game is stylized…why are people obsessed with realism?



  • Because that’s the impression players get ;P



  • @Jen<3:

    The combat in this game is stylized…why are people obsessed with realism?

    This game is “hollywood realism”…that means realism with sacrifices so it’s intense and epic. There’s nothing epic about 2h weapons moving as slow as dying snails. This no balance discussion imho, as you could balance out decreased release times with increased wind ups and increased recovery times. Longer windup and shorter release times is a buff to feinting of course, but it’s kinda small and 1h weapons are much better at feinting anyway so you can’t go wrong with this one(I’m talking about very small values here like 0.025s so you would hit your enemy as fast after your push of the button as you would now). But you would also nerf stuff like stab dragging, which is total nonsense imho. Stab is stab, if you want a swing do a swing. Changes like these would only make the combat look better and who doesn’t want this? :)



  • A Longsword/Great sword/Sword of War doesn’t weigh very much more than the average MLB wooden baseball bat which is at 30 ounces. Some player’s bats weighed more like Babe Ruth who used a 42 ounce Louisville Slugger that was 36 inches long when he set his 60 homerun in a season record and for his very first home run hit at Yankee Stadium in 1923 his bat was 36 inches, 46 ounces. In comparison my Albion Meyer practice longsword weighs 55.5 ounces and my Albion Talhoffer (sharp for cutting practice) weighs 53 ounces.

    Oh and the way you swing a baseball bat takes a LOT more time than making a very simple yet powerful diagonal cut with a longsword which the power comes from the hips and from leveraging the blade during the cut. ;)



  • @Grüne_Ritter:

    A Longsword/Great sword/Sword of War doesn’t weigh very much more than the average MLB wooden baseball bat which is at 30 ounces. Some player’s bats weighed more like Babe Ruth who used a 42 ounce Louisville Slugger that was 36 inches long when he set his 60 homerun in a season record and for his very first home run hit at Yankee Stadium in 1923 his bat was 36 inches, 46 ounces. In comparison my Albion Meyer practice longsword weighs 55.5 ounces and my Albion Talhoffer (sharp for cutting practice) weighs 53 ounces.

    Oh and the way you swing a baseball bat takes a LOT more time than making a very simple yet powerful diagonal cut with a longsword which the power comes from the hips and from leveraging the blade during the cut. ;)

    Do you watch ARMA’s training? I’d love to learn this style I think its pretty clever



  • ARMA makes some good quality videos but John Clement’s interpretation of the historical codex doesn’t always coincide with the majority of the HEMA Alliance community however he seems to prefer that autonomy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEMA_Alliance

    I’d love to learn this style I think its pretty clever

    I strongly encourage you to take up Western Martial Arts (WMA) training because it is a LOT of fun although as fair warning it can be a bit expensive to get good protective equipment and blades if you want to go full speed free style fencing (and believe me you will!) however the initial start up costs are much less. Here is a link to a HEMA ALLIANCE club finder.
    http://www.communitywalk.com/THE-HEMA-A … ner-Finder

    Note that it doesn’t list all the clubs out there as some are not members of the HEMA Alliance but still cross train and compete against clubs that are members. ARMA has its own listings of affiliated clubs which I’m sure you can find via a search.

    As a final bit of caution, WMA is a hazardous sport and broken hand & finger bones, smashed fingernails and multiple contusions are not uncommon so ensure your medical coverage is current! ;)


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